Grab a SP now

[caulfield12]

Really? You are telling me no one is going to trade for Daniel Webb or Chris Sale or Jose Quintana or Matt Davidson or Jose Abreu or Avisail Garcia or Adam Eaton or Dayan Viciedo or Alejandro De Aza or Jake Petricka or Erik Johnson? I could continue but I figured 11 was a good start.

 

Or simpler yet, Alexei Ramirez to the Yankees for a young catching prospect.

 

They're already looking at Stephen Drew. Why is he clearly better than Alexei? Don't think he is.

 

 

 

Or we can return to the example of trading Quintana for Castro.

 

We lose our second most valuable current asset (arguably) and we're getting a catcher who is becoming more and more expensive with each year. Talent-wise, you can argue the trade, but it's a complete and utter disaster if Santana/Jimenez/Garza go south, Danks doesn't ever return to form and continues to bloat the payroll and none of the young pitchers take that next step (E. Johnson, Beck, Rienzo, etc.) or go backwards in 2014.

 

Then you've blown a huge hole in the #2 spot in your rotation, you're stuck with two bad contracts for starters that you can't dump even and you're then 3 starters away from having a good rotation again but in "win now" mode suddenly with Castro on the roster in his prime years but with the window closing because of the lack of pitching (assuming the hitting makeover comes around).

 

Trading Santiago (even though I didn't like it) for Eaton was a lot more logical, because we had excess pitching talent.

Edited January 25, 2014 by caulfield12

[lasttriptotulsa]

Or simpler yet, Alexei Ramirez to the Yankees for a young catching prospect.

 

They're already looking at Stephen Drew. Why is he clearly better than Alexei. Don't think he is.

 

When factoring in cost, Drews probably worse. I believe he turned down a QA and is planning on getting paid.

[caulfield12]

So can a trade of Chris Sale if that's the goal.

 

Dick Allen used the Peavy/A. Garcia example.

 

Why don't we look at all the veteran pitchers who have signed contracts for 4+ years and 40+ million dollars in their 30's?

 

How many of them were "wins" for their front offices in the end when they were traded? How many of them were impediments and salary albatrosses on their payrolls or became diminishing assets that weren't able to be traded?

 

 

 

Peavy also doesn't fit as a great example because 1) he stayed with us because he thought we had a chance to win in 2013, 2) he was very familiar with our training, strength and conditioning staff and the medical staff that worked on his lat surgery in Chicago, 3) Cooper, 4) it was a make-good in a way on his previous contract with missing so much time, 5) he loved Chicago in particular, 6) the entire organization was already familiar with his work ethic and competitiveness.

 

Santana had a good season in a contract year in a stadium that tends to play big and turn July/August USCF homers into deep fly outs.

 

Jimenez hasn't been close to consistent at all since his breakout season with the Rockies. (He's the one I would pick of the three, simply based on ability and faith in Cooper to straighten him out, although his raw stuff still isn't what it was before. That and subtracting him from a playoff team from your division and adding him has a certain symmetry.)

 

Garza has medical issues.

[Eminor3rd]

If both Johnson and Beck turn out to be busts your rebuild is screwed whether you hang on to Quintana or not.

 

What? How do you figure? You don't need a stud 5th starter to compete. If we get to the point where we only have 3 good SPs, THEN we sign a fourth.

[Marty34]

What? How do you figure? You don't need a stud 5th starter to compete. If we get to the point where we only have 3 good SPs, THEN we sign a fourth.

 

The depth of talent in this organization remains paper thin. The truth is Abreau, Eaton, and Davidson are question marks to one degree or another and beyond those three there's no position players arriving anytime soon. If Johnson and Beck bust there's no depth to deal to fill holes that arise.

[Chicago White Sox]

The depth of talent in this organization remains paper thin. The truth is Abreau, Eaton, and Davidson are question marks to one degree or another and beyond those three there's no position players arriving anytime soon. If Johnson and Beck bust there's no depth to deal to fill holes that arise.

You have some fair points in this thread, but Hahn's goal right now it to improve the major league roster as much as possible without jeapordizing the future well-being of the organization. Guys that cost draft picks should be off limits unless they are true impact players and neither Jimenez or Santana fall under that label. Veterans can be added on cheap and/or short-term deals, but both pitchers you're talking about will require at least 4 or 5 years to get it done.

 

I actually agree with you that we should spend money when opportunities present themself even if winning in the very near-term is unlikely. Some posters seem to think we'll develop this magical core all at once and then will spend our millions to plug these holes, but fail to realize there may not be players to fill our needs in future free agent markets. However, it's quite clear that isn't the case next year regarding starting pitching, which makes adding a Santana or Jimenez right now a bad idea.

[caulfield12]

The depth of talent in this organization remains paper thin. The truth is Abreau, Eaton, and Davidson are question marks to one degree or another and beyond those three there's no position players arriving anytime soon. If Johnson and Beck bust there's no depth to deal to fill holes that arise.

 

 

That's not even true. We have Keppinger and Gillaspie that can make a legit platoon ahead of Davidson if he's not ready.

 

We have Semien, Carlos Sanchez and even Elmore for middle infield depth.

 

DeAza as the 4th outfielder.

 

We have Paulino/Surkamp/Rienzo as our 5th starter right now, with Beck perhaps the closest behind them.

 

We also have a #3 pick in the draft (not to mention a high 2nd), which will undoubtedly be used on a collegiate impact player, in all likelihood a pitcher, and in all probability another #5-10 draft pick in 2015.

 

 

The thing we don't have certainty about is whether Viciedo, Eaton, Avisail Garcia, Davidson, Semien, Beckham and Abreu will all hit like they're capable of. In fact, there's a good chance that at least two or three of those guys won't make it or won't be on our Opening Day roster in 2014.

 

That said, the major and lone glaring weakness is the catching position, where we have the luxury of packaging some combination of Alexei Ramirez, Viciedo/DeAza, Keppinger, Gillaspie and extra pitching (Lindstrom, Downs, Belisario, etc.) along with someone like Rienzo/Paulino/Surkamp.

 

If those 11 players combined can't get you a starting catcher, then we're in a world of hurt. Even then, we're going to have a boatload of money to work with...

 

Nick Hundley (team option), Russell Martin and Jeff Mathis are the youngest catchers there (in terms of the next FA class), so chances are we're going to have to acquire our catcher by trade OR Kevan Smith/Nieto making huge strides this season.

 

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2013/02/2015...ree-agents.html

 

There's a HUGE list of pitchers. Not all of them will be available, but you don't have to trade Quintana or spend $10-15 million over four seasons to acquire all of those guys, and not all of them are already in their 30's, either.

Edited January 25, 2014 by caulfield12

[Y2Jimmy0]

Jesse Sanchez ‏@JesseSanchezMLB 5h

Source: Cuban RHP Odrisamer Despaigne cleared by OFAC & can sign. Held 2 showcases in MX this month & might have one more before he signs.

 

 

Jesse Sanchez ‏@JesseSanchezMLB 5h

I'm told several of the clubs that were interested in signing Tanaka also expressed interest in Odrisamer Despaigne. Plan B?

 

Despaigne has a 80 name on the 20/80 scale but from reports I've read he doesn't sound like a huge impact guy. He's known for being a workhouse in Cuba and has solid numbers. He is 26 years old and is represented by old friend Jaime Torres. Ben Badler said that he is "fringy and might be a bullpen guy". I wonder if the White Sox will have any interest. It shouldn't be crazy money.

[hi8is]

Homer Bailey has to be a target next season if the reds don't extend him. On the starting catcher front I'm not seeing much next year as well... We're likely to get our catcher via trade IMO.

[Y2Jimmy0]

Homer Bailey has to be a target next season if the reds don't extend him. On the starting catcher front I'm not seeing much next year as well... We're likely to get our catcher via trade IMO.

 

 

Wouldn't be surprised if it's Yasmani Grandal after Hedges reaches the ML. Sox supposedly loved him when he came out.

[hi8is]

Wouldn't be surprised if it's Yasmani Grandal after Hedges reaches the ML. Sox supposedly loved him when he came out.

I do remember the 2010 draft when the reds took Grandal - a lot speculated that he was our target in that round before he was grabbed. Being that it "forced" us into Sale - we win!

[Quin]

Wouldn't be surprised if it's Yasmani Grandal after Hedges reaches the ML. Sox supposedly loved him when he came out.

 

Sign Odrisamer Despaigne and trade for Grandal.

 

5 Cubans

[Marty34]

Homer Bailey has to be a target next season if the reds don't extend him. On the starting catcher front I'm not seeing much next year as well... We're likely to get our catcher via trade IMO.

 

Barring injury, Homer Bailey will be out of their price range. They're not going to outspend the usual suspects when it comes to the top of the free agent market.

[caulfield12]

Barring injury, Homer Bailey will be out of their price range. They're not going to outspend the usual suspects when it comes to the top of the free agent market.

 

 

 

 

They managed to come up with the money for Abreu.

 

Why are we fixated on Homer Bailey now?

 

Can you guarantee that Paulino won't end up having a better season in 2014?

 

They've never attempted to outspend the usual suspects for pitching because they've never had to...plus, we've always been able to find pitching through waiver claims (Humber, Jenks, Santos, Quintana, Loaiza), through trades (Peavy, Danks, Contreras, Garland, Garcia, Javy, etc.) or through developing them internally (Buehrle, Sale, McCarthy, Hudson, Richard, Harrell, Santiago, Erik Johnson, Beck, etc.)

 

Not to mention that we now have the #3 pick in the draft and probably a #5-10 pick in 2014. Both of those can go to collegiate pitchers without giving up a $150 million million dollar contract or a single, solitary draft pick.

Edited January 25, 2014 by caulfield12

[Marty34]

You have some fair points in this thread, but Hahn's goal right now it to improve the major league roster as much as possible without jeapordizing the future well-being of the organization. Guys that cost draft picks should be off limits unless they are true impact players and neither Jimenez or Santana fall under that label. Veterans can be added on cheap and/or short-term deals, but both pitchers you're talking about will require at least 4 or 5 years to get it done.

 

I actually agree with you that we should spend money when opportunities present themself even if winning in the very near-term is unlikely. Some posters seem to think we'll develop this magical core all at once and then will spend our millions to plug these holes, but fail to realize there may not be players to fill our needs in future free agent markets. However, it's quite clear that isn't the case next year regarding starting pitching, which makes adding a Santana or Jimenez right now a bad idea.

 

Draft picks aren't the only way, or I'd argue the best way to build, at least not for the Sox. It's going to take a long time to build that farm system up Sox fans aren't going to sit through that. Look what has happened with the Astros getting beat in the ratings by a WNBA game. The Sox aren't going to the Astros extent in rebuilding, but they do have the Cubs to compete with.

 

The Cubs farm system is stacked which is one reason why I believe the Sox chose ML-ready prospects in trades. The Sox can't afford to fall behind them in terms of Major League talent which could very well happen once the Cubs prospects start making it to the majors. For that reason, the focus for the Sox has to be on the big league level right now.

 

You have to break a few eggs to make an omelet. That 2nd round fee it would cost for Jimenez, along with the big spenders not being interested, will keep his price down and you can recoup the value of the pick by dealing from rotation depth next offseason.

 

[Y2Jimmy0]

Draft picks aren't the only way, or I'd argue the best way to build, at least not for the Sox. It's going to take a long time to build that farm system up Sox fans aren't going to sit through that. Look what has happened with the Astros getting beat in the ratings by a WNBA game. The Sox aren't going to the Astros extent in rebuilding, but they do have the Cubs to compete with.

 

The Cubs farm system is stacked which is one reason why I believe the Sox chose ML-ready prospects in trades. The Sox can't afford to fall behind them in terms of Major League talent which could very well happen once the Cubs prospects start making it to the majors. For that reason, the focus for the Sox has to be on the big league level right now.

 

You have to break a few eggs to make an omelet. That 2nd round fee it would cost for Jimenez, along with the big spenders not being interested, will keep his price down and you can recoup the value of the pick by dealing from rotation depth next offseason.

 

 

With the system that the Astros have, those fans are about to jump back on board. Houston is going to be relevant again soon. Their system is stacked and they will also have money to spend.

[caulfield12]

Draft picks aren't the only way, or I'd argue the best way to build, at least not for the Sox. It's going to take a long time to build that farm system up Sox fans aren't going to sit through that. Look what has happened with the Astros getting beat in the ratings by a WNBA game. The Sox aren't going to the Astros extent in rebuilding, but they do have the Cubs to compete with. The Cubs farm system is stacked which is one reason why I believe the Sox chose ML-ready prospects in trades. The Sox can't afford to fall behind them in terms of Major League talent which could very well happen once the Cubs prospects start making it to the majors. For that reason, the focus for the Sox has to be on the big league level right now. You have to break a few eggs to make an omelet. That 2nd round fee it would cost for Jimenez, along with the big spenders not being interested, will keep his price down and you can recoup the value of the pick by dealing from rotation depth next offseason.

 

 

 

 

Elite collegiate pitching usually takes less than 2 years to arrive, or even in the same season.

 

Look at Sale and Wacha.

 

 

 

 

It's not like developing a Latin American hitter from age 16.

 

 

 

 

And, falling behind the Cubs doesn't mean anything because they have a lot more pressure on them to satisfy their fans in Year 4 of a rebuild than the White Sox do in Year 2.

 

Even if Baez, Almora, Soler and Bryant are All-Stars, they still don't have the pitching.

 

And we know the odds are that only one of those four guys will make an All-Star team at some point in their careers.

 

 

 

Even if the White Sox are terrible this season, are the Cubs going to pick up in attendance? No way. That's a loser's mentality.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 25, 2014 by caulfield12

[Chicago White Sox]

Draft picks aren't the only way, or I'd argue the best way to build, at least not for the Sox. It's going to take a long time to build that farm system up Sox fans aren't going to sit through that. Look what has happened with the Astros getting beat in the ratings by a WNBA game. The Sox aren't going to the Astros extent in rebuilding, but they do have the Cubs to compete with.

 

The Cubs farm system is stacked which is one reason why I believe the Sox chose ML-ready prospects in trades. The Sox can't afford to fall behind them in terms of Major League talent which could very well happen once the Cubs prospects start making it to the majors. For that reason, the focus for the Sox has to be on the big league level right now.

 

You have to break a few eggs to make an omelet. That 2nd round fee it would cost for Jimenez, along with the big spenders not being interested, will keep his price down and you can recoup the value of the pick by dealing from rotation depth next offseason.

The problem is Jimenez is incredibly inconsistent. Again, if we could get him for 2/$26M and he didn't cost a draft pick, I'd all be for him. We can afford to take short-term risks that only cost us money. Unfortunately, he's going to get 4 or 5 years and cost us a draft pick on top of it. He makes no sense for us. The risk is far greater than the reward here.

[ScottyDo]

Hahn on 670: "At this point in time, we're not going to do anything that costs us a draft pick."

[royoung]

Hahn on 670: "At this point in time, we're not going to do anything that costs us a draft pick."

 

Exactly the right way to go in this situation. Say what you'd like about the odds of a 2nd rounder amounting to anything, but a team coming off a 99 loss season shouldn't be signing 30 something starters that cost a pick.

[Jerksticks]

Exactly the right way to go in this situation. Say what you'd like about the odds of a 2nd rounder amounting to anything, but a team coming off a 99 loss season shouldn't be signing 30 something starters that cost a pick.

Especially 3rd pick. That's 2 first rounders basically, one elite talent and one that still should be pretty f good.

[Marty34]

Exactly the right way to go in this situation. Say what you'd like about the odds of a 2nd rounder amounting to anything, but a team coming off a 99 loss season shouldn't be signing 30 something starters that cost a pick.

 

Why? The Sox need talent on the Major League level as desperately as they need it in the minors. If the Sox can't outspend the big spenders (as shown by the Tanaka pursuit) they are going to have to go after guys like this. Would you rather give up a 2nd round pick this year than give up a 1st rounder when they are in the middle of the pack?

[royoung]

Why? The Sox need talent on the Major League level as desperately as they need it in the minors. If the Sox can't outspend the big spenders (as shown by the Tanaka pursuit) they are going to have to go after guys like this. Would you rather give up a 2nd round pick this year than give up a 1st rounder when they are in the middle of the pack?

 

Jimenez or Santana is going to cost us 10 plus million a year, while our 2nd rounder is going to cost us a fraction of that and could possibly be in our organization for the next 8-10 years. I honestly would rather not give a draft pick for mediocre, aging free agent fodder at all. It's not that Hahn isn't participating in free agency, he just is being selective about who to pursue.

[2nd_city_saint787]

Barring injury, Homer Bailey will be out of their price range. They're not going to outspend the usual suspects when it comes to the top of the free agent market.

 

You don't actually believe this do you? IF the Sox target a SP, which I'm not so sure they will, they will without question have the money to do so. Did you miss the whole Tanaka saga where they were in it till the end on a player who just got the 5th richest contract among SPs ever? Dunn will also be off the books next year giving the Sox even more money to play with.

 

I'm a firm believer in the Sox ability to develop pitching though and I see Beck and/or Bassit making it into next years rotation, and I also think Danks will bounce back this year. Sale-Q-Johnson-Danks-Beck/Bassit will be more than solid IMO.

 

Spend big on a replacement for Dunn(Whether that be a DH or a LF with Dayan moving to DH) next year if they wanna spend big money.

[Kyyle23]

Why? The Sox need talent on the Major League level as desperately as they need it in the minors. If the Sox can't outspend the big spenders (as shown by the Tanaka pursuit) they are going to have to go after guys like this. Would you rather give up a 2nd round pick this year than give up a 1st rounder when they are in the middle of the pack?

 

Pick a lane Marty, you are simultaneously complaining that there is no depth in the minors and advocating trading away the ability to restock the minors. Jimenez isn't worth the money you are saying should be offered or the pick that would be surrendered.