Grab a SP now

[Balta1701]

Then you can trade Paulino too. He'd have a ton of value because he's cheap. The haul you get for Quintana and Paulino should be greater than what you get in the 2nd round.

Actually no we can't, because if we sign Santana, Paulino only reaches the rotation if someone gets hurt.

[ScottyDo]

I'm just saying stats can't nail down the precise value a contract should be. There are many factors and they differ for each franchise.

This is certainly true. I can't imagine anyone would argue with that. However, when you're discussing future value, you gotta start somewhere, otherwise we're all blowing numbers out of our a**es.

 

You're saying 3/$40M would be a steal. You don't like WAR, and you don't like $/WAR. So what, then, are you basing your assessment on?

[Marty34]

Actually no we can't, because if we sign Santana, Paulino only reaches the rotation if someone gets hurt.

 

I believe if he can pitch he'll have ample opportunity to reach the rotation even if they sign a FA. Johnson's arbitration clock, rest for Sale and Quntana, an injury to Danks.

[Balta1701]

I believe if he can pitch he'll have ample opportunity to reach the rotation even if they sign a FA. Johnson's arbitration clock, rest for Sale and Quntana, an injury to Danks.

I see, so we're going to bench one of the guys you want to trade, keep a pitcher who is ready for the bigs in the minors for no reason, and Danks (another of the guys you say we're going to trade to recoup the losses in stupidly signing Santana) is going to get hurt.

 

In other words, we can't trade those guys because they're all terrible and have no value. I think that means we need our 2nd round pick even more!

[Marty34]

This is certainly true. I can't imagine anyone would argue with that. However, when you're discussing future value, you gotta start somewhere, otherwise we're all blowing numbers out of our a**es.

 

You're saying 3/$40M would be a steal. You don't like WAR, and you don't like $/WAR. So what, then, are you basing your assessment on?

 

The FA pitchers that went before him, next year's class, and the money the Sox have available.

[Marty34]

I see, so we're going to bench one of the guys you want to trade, keep a pitcher who is ready for the bigs in the minors for no reason, and Danks (another of the guys you say we're going to trade to recoup the losses in stupidly signing Santana) is going to get hurt.

 

In other words, we can't trade those guys because they're all terrible and have no value. I think that means we need our 2nd round pick even more!

 

It's called depth B.

[Balta1701]

The FA pitchers that went before him, next year's class, and the money the Sox have available.

You keep saying this while ignoring the fact that there are many middle-of-the-road-wrong-side-of-30 pitchers set up to be FA's next year.

[Balta1701]

It's called depth B.

But if we need depth that badly how will SP be a position of strength we can use to recoup our investment by trading away a SP?

[Marty34]

But if we need depth that badly how will SP be a position of strength we can use to recoup our investment by trading away a SP?

 

If Paulino works out and he's at Charlotte that's best case scenario, that is what we want.

[Marty34]

You keep saying this while ignoring the fact that there are many middle-of-the-road-wrong-side-of-30 pitchers set up to be FA's next year.

 

None a better deal than what you can get Santana for this year.

[Balta1701]

None a better deal than what you can get Santana for this year.

HOW THE F*** DO YOU KNOW THAT?

[Jose Abreu]

HOW THE F*** DO YOU KNOW THAT?

He's a psychic.

[ScottyDo]

If Paulino works out and he's at Charlotte that's best case scenario, that is what we want.

How is this best case scenario? Why not Paulino working out at the MLB level? That's...what?

[Balta1701]

If Paulino works out and he's at Charlotte that's best case scenario, that is what we want.

Actually considering we'd have to cut him to send him to Charlotte for anything more than a 30 day rehab stint, this doesn't seem to make much sense.

 

He's on a major league contract. You could legitimately get him to Charlotte on a 30 day rehab stint, but you cannot put him at Charlotte for the season waiting for someone else to get hurt. He either starts the year in the rotation, starts the year on the disabled list, starts the year on a rehab stint and is up by May 1, or you release him.

 

Which of those would you prefer?

[Marty34]

HOW THE F*** DO YOU KNOW THAT?

 

WAR told me. Seriously though, the big dogs will be on the prowl again next year for starters and I believe the market will be higher because of it.

[Balta1701]

WAR told me. Seriously though, the big dogs will be on the prowl again next year for starters and I believe the market will be higher because of it.

And there are, as it stands right now, several big names available on the market to potentially satisfy them. More so than this year in fact. Scherzer, Lester, Bailey, Shields, Masterson.

 

There could be more money spent on those guys than there has been spent on big name starters already this season and still have some left over if that winds up being a 2015 need for the White Sox...which only you are certain will be the case.

[Eminor3rd]

WAR told me. Seriously though, the big dogs will be on the prowl again next year for starters and I believe the market will be higher because of it.

 

By fWAR, Santana's 2013 was his third best season. He is overrated. The big dogs are ALWAYS on the prowl for free agent pitching. Let them overpay for it. We lost 99 games and have a glut of young SPs that need innings. Why you want to create a roster logjam at the cost of $60m and an early second round pick is beyond all of us.

[ShandyMan]

By fWAR, Santana's 2013 was his third best season. He is overrated. The big dogs are ALWAYS on the prowl for free agent pitching. Let them overpay for it. We lost 99 games and have a glut of young SPs that need innings. Why you want to create a roster logjam at the cost of $60m and an early second round pick is beyond all of us.

 

Especially when your 2nd round pick will likely be a 1st round talent due to being such a high pick.

[royoung]

Stop feeding the troll. The logic behind this thread has been refuted wonderfully several times over. More importantly, Hahn said he's not giving up a draft pick.

[Marty34]

By fWAR, Santana's 2013 was his third best season. He is overrated. The big dogs are ALWAYS on the prowl for free agent pitching. Let them overpay for it. We lost 99 games and have a glut of young SPs that need innings. Why you want to create a roster logjam at the cost of $60m and an early second round pick is beyond all of us.

 

The White Sox do not have a glut of young SP. Sale, Quintana, Johnson and . . . ?

[Balta1701]

The White Sox do not have a glut of young SP. Sale, Quintana, Johnson and . . . ?

THEN HOW ARE THEY GOING TO RECOUP THEIR DRAFT PICK BY TRADING ONE?

[The Ultimate Champion]

By fWAR, Santana's 2013 was his third best season. He is overrated. The big dogs are ALWAYS on the prowl for free agent pitching. Let them overpay for it. We lost 99 games and have a glut of young SPs that need innings. Why you want to create a roster logjam at the cost of $60m and an early second round pick is beyond all of us.

What are the Twins doing right now?

 

In a game that always revolves around pitching, and in an era where pitching has become even more dominant (moreso than it has been for probably 25 years or more) it makes a f***ing TON of sense to create a logjam of SP. Personally I think Santana is too scatterbrained and Floydish to commit big money to, but current 4th starter money? Over 3 years? s*** sign me the f*** up please. Do it now.

 

We don't want to just throw our young guys into the fire without making them earn it. Not only is a Sale-Santana-Quintana-Johnson-Danks rotation very good and balanced, it allows the Sox to work in other pieces as they need them and as those guys are ready. Beck can come in when he's 100% ready, and it can be at the expense of Danks or Santana. If Paulino can come back in the pen or as a spot starter, or take over for Johnson should be struggle and need to be optioned back to Charlotte for a little while. There's a TON of positives having too much pitching, and a TON of negatives when you don't have enough.

 

Right now the Sox are logjamming their bullpen prospects. Great. Keep it up, and when the org believes 100% that Bassit and/or Petricka are ready to step in and get the job done, there goes Lindstrom/Belisario/etc.

 

Also that second round pick is a risk anyway. It's not like whoever we take there is definitely going to be a Major League player. There's a lot of development time to be expected. I would say it is far likelier that Santana would be good enough to spin off after 1-2 years at a value greater than whatever player the Royals would take with our pick than it would be that we pick someone there who either makes it as a quality MLB player OR brings back a quality MLB player through trade.

 

The whole point of this thing is to add as much value in new resources as possible while depleting the organization's resources as little as possible. Taking advantage of the late January & February free agents is one way of doing that, especially when it involves pitching. 2nd round pick? For 3 years $40M that's a p****hair over $13M per and no way should we not do that.

[Marty34]

THEN HOW ARE THEY GOING TO RECOUP THEIR DRAFT PICK BY TRADING ONE?

 

They don't have young SP depth. They need Johnson and Beck to fill spots in the rotation. If those guys are bust, not much behind them.

[The Ultimate Champion]

THEN HOW ARE THEY GOING TO RECOUP THEIR DRAFT PICK BY TRADING ONE?

Isn't there a draft and INTL period every single year?

 

These guys stocks rise and fall all the time, you know that. The draft pick is a great thing to have, it is very high, but give Santana 1-2 years where he's quality and put him on the trade market and there is serious value there. You're looking at 3 good prospects there or maybe 1 very good or great prospect plus more, and the return you get is made up of players your entire org has been scouting WITHIN the MiLB system, meaning you are seeing how they are doing against the best MILB comp at that level, everybody is using wooden bats, etc. It's going to be a lot easier for scouts to get a handle on guys who have been doing it at the MiLB level & have accumulated a bit of a track record in the process.

 

Marty isn't wrong all of the time ya know. He's right about the pitching, you can always trade it if it's good.

[The Ultimate Champion]

They don't have young SP depth. They need Johnson and Beck to fill spots in the rotation. If those guys are bust, not much behind them.

There's Danish that is really interesting, but you are right, we just don't know. You never, ever, ever know until these guys are doing it on the field. s***, the Rays don't necessarily block their pitching prospects with MLB signings, but they block their guys with other guys they have developed, and they keep starters in the minors when other teams would have called them up; also they send SP prospects to the bullpen to learn and so on. Look at what Terry Ryan is doing over there & is anyone really going to say he doesn't know what he's doing? He's really turned that organization around, and they're not going to suck forever. The Braves block their pitching prospects, too. Those are 3 teams that we should probably try to emulate: the more pitching the better, and the better a prospect has to be/the more ready he has to be to get his spot, the better.