Grab a SP now

[Dick Allen]

So based on the fact that you're probably right about this....we should outbid people at the lower end of this year's SP market because...?

I think the argument is the price of pitching is only going to go higher. It is a decent argument.the Yankees, Dodgers, Red Sox, Angels and Cubs don't appear to be biddiing on thr remaining guys. Next year they probably will. Face it, if any of them needed a 1b/DH, Abreu is probably a richer man.

Edited January 24, 2014 by Dick Allen

[ILMOU]

The were outbid on Tanaka though and the biggest spenders weren't in on Abreau.

 

Next year, Scherzer (or whoever has the best 2014) will set the market and the rest will fall, more cheaply after that - and it will all happen earlier in the offseason with no Tanaka situation holding it up.

 

There'll be plenty to go around, even after the "big spenders" have had their bites, imo, obviously you don't agree - we can afford the guy we'll want and Rick will get him. I like all of those guys better than what's available currently. Tanaka was simply not a typical situation.

Edited January 24, 2014 by Stan Bahnsen

[Balta1701]

Give a number that would be your maximum contract so that I can laugh at it please.

 

 

It will save them money.

I'm waiting. You haven't done so yet. For it to save them money you need to tell me what this contract will be rather than just stating so.

 

I would not have paid Matt Garza 4/$52 to be on the White Sox 2014 rotation if I were in the GM seat. I'm skeptical enough for the Brewers and they won >10 more games than the White Sox last year. Give me a contract that you think makes sens.e

[Balta1701]

Next year, Scherzer (or whoever has the best 2014) will set the market and the rest will fall, more cheaply after that - and it will all happen earlier in the offseason with no Tanaka situation holding it up.

 

There'll be plenty to go around, even after the "big spenders" have had their bites, imo, obviously you don't agree - we can afford the guy we'll want and Rick will get him. I like all of those guys better than what's available currently. Tanaka was simply not a typical situation.

David Price should darn well be the biggest price SP next year unless he is out of shape or something like that. The fact that he's left handed should be a selling point even if he and MS put up the same numbers next year.

[ILMOU]

David Price should darn well be the biggest price SP next year unless he is out of shape or something like that. The fact that he's left handed should be a selling point even if he and MS put up the same numbers next year.

 

Has one more arb year - not FA til 2016. But,yeah, if he signed an extension in the interim, that would set the market, yes. And he's younger than the others.

Edited January 24, 2014 by Stan Bahnsen

[Marty34]

I think the argument is the price of pitching is only going to go higher. It is a decent argument.the Yankees, Dodgers, Red Sox, Angels and Cubs don't appear to be biddiing on thr remaining guys. Next year they probably will. Face it, if any of them needed a 1b/DH, Abreu is probably a richer man.

 

Exactly. The other thing about adding a SP is it will give them flexibility to deal a Danks or a Quintana after next year. I'm not happy about the idea of giving up a 2nd round pick for Jimenez, but that will make him cheaper and the value of that 2nd round pick can be recouped by what they receive back in a trade for Danks or Quintana.

[Balta1701]

Has one more arb year - not FA til 2016. But,yeah, if he signed an extension in the interim, that would set the market, yes. And he's younger than the others.

Really? Wow, you're right, I thought he was 2015.

[Marty34]

I'm waiting. You haven't done so yet. For it to save them money you need to tell me what this contract will be rather than just stating so.

 

I would not have paid Matt Garza 4/$52 to be on the White Sox 2014 rotation if I were in the GM seat. I'm skeptical enough for the Brewers and they won >10 more games than the White Sox last year. Give me a contract that you think makes sens.e

 

4y/$44M

[Balta1701]

Exactly. The other thing about adding a SP is it will give them flexibility to deal a Danks or a Quintana after next year. I'm not happy about the idea of giving up a 2nd round pick for Jimenez, but that will make him cheaper and the value of that 2nd round pick can be recouped by what they receive back in a trade for Danks or Quintana.

This is immensely risky. You're assuming that all of them pitch up to their best level of performance to get that value back.

 

If you sign Jiminez and Danks or Jiminez pitch like they did in 2012, you're out your 2nd round pick, the money it took to sign both of them, and you have no ability to trade either of them if they're overpaid.

 

You're gambling on a bet that...if everything goes right, you come out even at best. If guys pitch well, you're still a loser because you paid the price for them assuming they'd pitch well already.

[Balta1701]

4y/$44M

I wouldn't in a hundred years pay that for Ubaldo Jiminez on the 2014 Chicago White Sox.

 

I might do so on a team ready to compete next year needing back of the rotation depth.

[Marty34]

This is immensely risky. You're assuming that all of them pitch up to their best level of performance to get that value back.

 

If you sign Jiminez and Danks or Jiminez pitch like they did in 2012, you're out your 2nd round pick, the money it took to sign both of them, and you have no ability to trade either of them if they're overpaid.

 

You're gambling on a bet that...if everything goes right, you come out even at best. If guys pitch well, you're still a loser because you paid the price for them assuming they'd pitch well already.

 

Worse case scenario is trade Quintana and make Jimenez and Danks #4 and #5.

[ILMOU]

Exactly. The other thing about adding a SP is it will give them flexibility to deal a Danks or a Quintana after next year. I'm not happy about the idea of giving up a 2nd round pick for Jimenez, but that will make him cheaper and the value of that 2nd round pick can be recouped by what they receive back in a trade for Danks or Quintana.

 

Market schmarket - Why do you want to spend money on guys with so many fleas, guys that you don't really want? Not huge money, necessarily, but big enough to hurt your ability to make moves for actual needs next year if your signee bombs, which isn't unlikely with these two. You're mainly talking about Jimenez/Santana, no? Anybody lower is cheap enough that I'll be able to deal with it.

 

[Dick Allen]

I got my BP today. They really like Sale, Q, Johnson, Jones, Belisaro and even Danks. Offensively, they kind of like Abreu and think Eaton has a chance. The write up liked Davidson, PECOTA did not. Everyone else.....not so good.

[southsider2k5]

It will save them money.

 

Spending money saves money? Man my wife would love you.

[Marty34]

I wouldn't in a hundred years pay that for Ubaldo Jiminez on the 2014 Chicago White Sox.

 

I might do so on a team ready to compete next year needing back of the rotation depth.

 

With the amount of cash the Sox have committed it's a drop in the bucket.

[southsider2k5]

Worse case scenario is trade Quintana and make Jimenez and Danks #4 and #5.

 

No, worst case scenario is to give Jimenez a long term deal and realize that his 2013 was a fluke and 2012 is closer to reality.

[Marty34]

No, worst case scenario is to give Jimenez a long term deal and realize that his 2013 was a fluke and 2012 is closer to reality.

 

There is risk in every signing particularly starting pitching. It's acceptable risk given the Sox current salary commitments.

[Balta1701]

There is risk in every signing particularly starting pitching. It's acceptable risk given the Sox current salary commitments.

If they were a starting pitcher short of competing on paper in 2014 I'd agree. They are not. That means assuming that risk for a very unlikely reward.

[Balta1701]

With the amount of cash the Sox have committed it's a drop in the bucket.

Would you care to predict jiminez's era next year also?

[Marty34]

If they were a starting pitcher short of competing on paper in 2014 I'd agree. They are not. That means assuming that risk for a very unlikely reward.

 

If you take your premise to its logical end, Chris Sale should sit out next year. His health is a much bigger risk to the franchise than any contract the Sox can enter into.

[Baron]

I'm slightly disturbed that we're talking about signing Jimenez to a multi year 40 million dollar contract

[Kalapse]

I thought I was a pretty fantastic troll but I must say, Marty is superior.

[Balta1701]

If you take your premise to its logical end, Chris Sale should sit out next year. His health is a much bigger risk to the franchise than any contract the Sox can enter into.

If you could guarantee me that no one gotten in return would bust you'd be right. But the problem is you can't, in fact if you got 4 guys back you'd assume 2 of them bend it like Beckham. And that's where the risk in moving him comes, which you always ignore.

[southsider2k5]

I'm slightly disturbed that we're talking about signing Jimenez to a multi year 40 million dollar contract

 

 

We? No. That is all Marty.

[TheFutureIsNear]

If they were a starting pitcher short of competing on paper in 2014 I'd agree. They are not. That means assuming that risk for a very unlikely reward.

 

For the record I've been saying Santana the whole time not Jimenez but.....

 

Why is 2015 not a factor? Why not sign a really good #3 starter now for 12 or 13 mil per year? Can we agree that if the team wants to compete in 2015 another SP is going to be have to signed or acquired somehow? Why wait and pay a premium price when there is a more than serviceable SP now at a bargain price? Santana is 31, not 37, I think its more than reasonable to say that he should pitch at a high level for another 4 years. If you would have asked me 2 months ago whether or not I thought the Sox should sign Ervin Santana I would have said heck no without hesitation. But at some point you have to factor in value and capitalize on a buyers market.

 

And do people really think this organization is going to spend 90+ million on 1 of the top SP's being mentioned for next years FA class? Not going to happen.