Balta1701 Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Jan 24, 2014 -> 04:10 PM) You're not taking away from Quintana's value if you sign a mid-rotation starter. Would you rather have Jimenez or Santana and say Jason Castro going forward or Quintana? Who will we spend the $13 million on that we're not spending on Jiminez? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Jan 24, 2014 -> 03:10 PM) You're not taking away from Quintana's value if you sign a mid-rotation starter. Would you rather have Jimenez or Santana and say Jason Castro going forward or Quintana? Quintana, Phegley, and $13-15 million per year over the next 4-5 years to get a better understanding of this team's needs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 Honestly the best value that the Sox can get for a #3 starter is for John Danks to continue the process of getting back to being John Danks after his surgery and recovery. His ceiling is better than just about anyone left on the market, and he should be ready to return to normalcy if he follows a typical recovery road. At that point we are talking about 4th and 5th starters, which is fine with guys like Paulino, Johnson, Rienzo, Surkamp and company in the mix. The smartest thing to do right now for the Sox is to save that money in case a catcher comes across their radar in the next six months. It could be Cuba, DR, or a team that is looking to trade someone. That will be way more beneficial than spending the big money on a pitcher that won't add nearly as much to the team as another catcher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
royoung Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Jan 24, 2014 -> 03:10 PM) You're not taking away from Quintana's value if you sign a mid-rotation starter. Would you rather have Jimenez or Santana and say Jason Castro going forward or Quintana? You misunderstand me completely. It's an allocation of scarce resources. Q is a solid #2-3 starter for less than a million dollars a year. That's amazing value and let's you spend elsewhere to improve your ball club. We don't have a gaping hole in the middle of our rotation where we NEED to spend 13 million a year on an aging starter. Good clubs don't have to dip into the free agent market much because they can develop their own talent or acquire it cheaply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 The best catcher the White Sox have had since Carlton Fisk came about because his team grew tired of him and wanted a change of pace. Nobody had any idea he'd be available that offseason, yet there he was, and then they won the World Series. Frankly, Russell Martin is a guy I hope the Sox are interested in next year if he doesn't resign with the Pirates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 QUOTE (southside hitman @ Jan 24, 2014 -> 03:18 PM) You misunderstand me completely. It's an allocation of scarce resources. Q is a solid #2-3 starter for less than a million dollars a year. That's amazing value and let's you spend elsewhere to improve your ball club. We don't have a gaping hole in the middle of our rotation where we NEED to spend 13 million a year on an aging starter. Good clubs don't have to dip into the free agent market much because they can develop their own talent or acquire it cheaply. How long do you think it will take the Sox farm system to start producing the talent needed to contend? My guess 3-5 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Jan 24, 2014 -> 04:22 PM) How long do you think it will take the Sox farm system to start producing the talent needed to contend? My guess 3-5 years. Then why on Earth do you think it's a good idea to spend money on a pitcher who will be gone in 4 years? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Jan 24, 2014 -> 03:22 PM) How long do you think it will take the Sox farm system to start producing the talent needed to contend? My guess 3-5 years. Erik Johnson should break camp with the MLB, Marcus Semien is not far behind, and I have really high hopes for Chris Beck. To answer your question, not long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottyDo Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jan 24, 2014 -> 06:27 PM) Erik Johnson should break camp with the MLB, Marcus Semien is not far behind, and I have really high hopes for Chris Beck. To answer your question, not long. Not to mention, the #3 pick this year. That could churn out some talent very quickly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jan 24, 2014 -> 03:23 PM) Then why on Earth do you think it's a good idea to spend money on a pitcher who will be gone in 4 years? So that they'll have assets to deal in the interim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
royoung Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Jan 24, 2014 -> 03:22 PM) How long do you think it will take the Sox farm system to start producing the talent needed to contend? My guess 3-5 years. If you are specifically talking about the rotation I believe that the rotation we currently have is capable of contending. If you are talking about the roster as a whole I would guess 1-2 years with Garcia, Davidson, Eaton, Abreu, adjusting to the major leagues. My point is the rotation isn't the thing holding the Sox from contending and spending 13 million to improve it slightly isn't a smart way to allocate resources when there are other areas of need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 QUOTE (southside hitman @ Jan 24, 2014 -> 03:31 PM) If you are specifically talking about the rotation I believe that the rotation we currently have is capable of contending. If you are talking about the roster as a whole I would guess 1-2 years with Garcia, Davidson, Eaton, Abreu, adjusting to the major leagues. My point is the rotation isn't the thing holding the Sox from contending and spending 13 million to improve it slightly isn't a smart way to allocate resources when there are other areas of need. The best way for the Sox to improve over the next couple of years is to deal Quintana and Danks and backfill those rotation spots with Johnson and Beck. Adding a mid-rotation guy this year allows them to make that transition easier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Jan 24, 2014 -> 01:49 PM) So can a trade of Chris Sale if that's the goal. Chris Sale IS young talent. I'm not following your logic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Jan 24, 2014 -> 03:42 PM) The best way for the Sox to improve over the next couple of years is to deal Quintana and Danks and backfill those rotation spots with Johnson and Beck. Adding a mid-rotation guy this year allows them to make that transition easier. No it's not. That's one of the worst ways for them to get better. Being able to move Danks would be nice, but he is also symbolic of the risk involved in signing mid rotation starters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Jan 24, 2014 -> 03:22 PM) How long do you think it will take the Sox farm system to start producing the talent needed to contend? My guess 3-5 years. Again -- this is NOT a sound approach. Adding talent to all levels is the goal. You asked before when is the right time. It ISN'T the offseason after losing 99 games. It will depend upon how the core develops. It may be as soon as next offseason. More likely, it's two offseasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Jan 24, 2014 -> 03:42 PM) The best way for the Sox to improve over the next couple of years is to deal Quintana and Danks and backfill those rotation spots with Johnson and Beck. Adding a mid-rotation guy this year allows them to make that transition easier. This makes no sense at all. Danks IS the mid-rotation guy you want to add. Danks is not worth anything in a trade, so why would you spin your wheels? And what are you trading Quintana for? If they believe last year's performance is stable, the best thing they can do is to extend him before he can demand market value and then move on to filling the next hole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Jimmy0 Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 This thread is awful. There are really people that think the Sox should sign a veteran starting pitcher? I wouldn't sign one, let alone give up a draft pick and the overall draft $$ to do it. It doesn't make any sense. I am glad that Rick Hahn agrees with me and this topic has been rendered as pointless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jan 24, 2014 -> 03:43 PM) No it's not. That's one of the worst ways for them to get better. Being able to move Danks would be nice, but he is also symbolic of the risk involved in signing mid rotation starters. Why is it one of the worst ways? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Jan 24, 2014 -> 04:26 PM) Why is it one of the worst ways? You have a good young piece in Quintana right now, and a bust of a long-term contract in Danks. You want to trade Quintana - again, an already proven, young piece - for prospects, and then trade Danks for prospects - meaning, eat his contract, hope to get a guy that throws 88 MPH. You then want to venture down the long-term contract for a 30something pitcher while then counting on the development of Johnson and/or Beck, who are guys that could easily bust. Ultimately, you may end up with 0 good pitchers while eating Danks contract and adding another bloated contract in there as well. Do I really need to explain this further? You don't have to make extreme moves to rebuild. You can take it slow. This doesn't have to be done in one year, and frankly it doesn't have to be done in two years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justBLAZE Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 @MLBBruceLevine 6m Cubs and White Sox both looking at adding starting pitching . Cubs checking free agent list . from Chicago, IL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 QUOTE (Knuckles @ Jan 24, 2014 -> 04:48 PM) @MLBBruceLevine 6m Cubs and White Sox both looking at adding starting pitching . Cubs checking free agent list . from Chicago, IL I hear they're interested in Tanaka from Japan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jan 24, 2014 -> 04:30 PM) You have a good young piece in Quintana right now, and a bust of a long-term contract in Danks. You want to trade Quintana - again, an already proven, young piece - for prospects, and then trade Danks for prospects - meaning, eat his contract, hope to get a guy that throws 88 MPH. You then want to venture down the long-term contract for a 30something pitcher while then counting on the development of Johnson and/or Beck, who are guys that could easily bust. Ultimately, you may end up with 0 good pitchers while eating Danks contract and adding another bloated contract in there as well. Do I really need to explain this further? You don't have to make extreme moves to rebuild. You can take it slow. This doesn't have to be done in one year, and frankly it doesn't have to be done in two years. If both Johnson and Beck turn out to be busts your rebuild is screwed whether you hang on to Quintana or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buehrle>Wood Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 QUOTE (Knuckles @ Jan 24, 2014 -> 11:48 PM) @MLBBruceLevine 6m Cubs and White Sox both looking at adding starting pitching . Cubs checking free agent list . from Chicago, IL Mods should update the title, even if it is Brucey Boy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILMOU Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 Bargain shopping, if anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 QUOTE (TheFutureIsNear @ Jan 24, 2014 -> 11:22 AM) What hitters are added? I can't predict if the lineup will be capable of hitting well enough to win. But I do think Sale, Q, and Santana is more than enough pitching to win a world series. Without adding another #2 or #3 I don't think the pitching staff is good enough to be a serious contender though. And while I don't think 2014 is going to be any better than a 80 win season, but 2015 playoffs are more than within reach and that should be the goal. Maybe. But some of the posters advocating signing Santana and Jimenez are the same ones saying that we should be considering trading a cost-controlled Quintana for more prospects while picking up another future Edwin Jackson who will strangle our payroll like Dunn/Danks/Keppinger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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