Soxfest thread

[caulfield12]

 

I think it's "okay" to boo at the stadium, but the environment at SoxFest is a different one.

 

It's more for families and children to meet their idols...it's almost like a magical or fantasy experience for many, especially the younger generation who are excited just to get an autograph.

 

Booing the players in a hotel/conference center isn't going to change a thing in the world, anymore than a jilted lover murdering his wife and the man she's cheating with is going to repair or fix his life.

 

Sure, you paid of the tickets or the hotel room...but does booing or acting like that really make you feel better? Maybe in a "Joe the Plumber," he's got his comeuppance kind of way?

 

In the end, managers and GM's are the ones that you should direct your anger at, because they are the ones who take those jobs knowing the heat/scrutiny that comes with it. For example, KW used to love SoxFest and look forward to those confrontations with the "know it all" Sox fans until near the end of his regime. It was one of the main reasons fans bought tickets, I'd argue. For his, "Detroit just put themselves in a better position to compete with us" bravado moments. Hahn has a much different personality, but I'm sure he would love to be the one to take all the abuse if it spared Ventura and players.

 

That's ONE area where Ozzie was exceptional at the beginning of his career....taking the focus of the media away from the team and putting it on himself. It grew old eventually, but at least it was a public relations strategy, of course fed by Guillen's ego and hubris. It's one of the reasons the KW/Ozzie soap opera was so intriguing, because of the egos involved.

[caulfield12]

My question is why not there? People are paying hundreds of dollars to attend and naturally most people wear their emotions on their sleeve. I could understand if this was a free event but the sox are making a killing off of this. Maybe I just don't feel sympathy for players and coaches getting paid a whole lot of money for what most of us would do for free. And being a public figure leads you open to criticism.

 

 

 

 

Just curious.

 

Do you also boo/jeer politicians you don't like or disagree with?

 

What about celebrities? If Kim Kardashian or Lindsay Lohan or Miley Cyrus walked by, would you also boo them? (After all, we pay for their concert tickets, singles/albums and the tv shows they're on are supported by audience ratings and the ad rates which drive the profits).

 

Once again, there's not categorically "right" or wrong answer.

 

 

 

 

You're telling me people can't control their emotions months and months after the season in a venue completely different than a ballpark?

 

If you saw Robin Ventura on the street just days after the 2012 season fell apart at the end of September, would you have booed him?

 

Or are boos reserved just for players we categorize as "goats" or "underachievers"?

 

 

 

 

If Jerry Dybzynski was at SoxFest, would you consider it appropriate to boo him, too, for something that happened in 1983?

 

What about Jaime Navarro? David Wells? Wil Cordero?

 

Would you boo Magglio or Carlos Lee?

 

 

 

Edited January 26, 2014 by caulfield12

[Paulstar]

Just curious.

 

Do you also boo/jeer politicians you don't like or disagree with?

 

What about celebrities? If Kim Kardashian or Lindsay Lohan or Miley Cyrus walked by, would you also boo them? (After all, we pay for their concert tickets, singles/albums and the tv shows they're on are supported by audience ratings and the ad rates which drive the profits).

 

Once again, there's not categorically "right" or wrong answer.

For the last time, I've never said I was down with what was going on. I just think it's silly for people to think it's so outrageous that this happened, as it wouldnt have happened with any franchise. If iI was Adam Dunn, I would soak it in and in the back of my head say f*** it, I'm still rich and get paid to play a game I love.

 

Edit: For the record, I'm completely okay with booing at games. If it's okay to cheer, the inverse should be accepted as well.

Edited January 26, 2014 by Paulstar

[southsider2k5]

My question is why not there? People are paying hundreds of dollars to attend and naturally most people wear their emotions on their sleeve. I could understand if this was a free event but the sox are making a killing off of this. Maybe I just don't feel sympathy for players and coaches getting paid a whole lot of money for what most of us would do for free.

 

And being a public figure leads you open to criticism.

 

Your job doesn't entitle you to be a whipping boy.

[Marty34]

Adam Dunn is part of the product the White Sox are trying sell. The disdain he's receiving is nothing personal, just business.

[Paulstar]

Your job doesn't entitle you to be a whipping boy.

If my job was to play baseball I would be perfectly ok with it because BALLPLAYERS HAVE BEEN BOOED AND JEERED AT A LOT LONGER THAN WE'VE EVEN BEEN AROUND. IT'S PART OF BEING A BALLPLAYER!

[Brian26]

Maybe I just have a problem with people who feel like it's up to them to tell other people how to act.

 

Maybe you don't understand that people shouldn't have to be told how NOT to act.

 

 

[Kyyle23]

If my job was to play baseball I would be perfectly ok with it because BALLPLAYERS HAVE BEEN BOOED AND JEERED AT A LOT LONGER THAN WE'VE EVEN BEEN AROUND. IT'S PART OF BEING A BALLPLAYER!

 

You know, I agree that at a game a ball player can be booed and jeered and it shouldn't bother them. In an intimate setting, Q&A no less, I think people should have more respect for the guy. JMO

[Brian26]

If iI was Adam Dunn, I would soak it in and in the back of my head say f*** it, I'm still rich and get paid to play a game I love.

 

There's a lot of irony in that statement for a lot of reasons.

[hammerhead johnson]

It's only okay if Viciedo is getting taunted at soxfest. Not Dunn.

 

Paulstar, you S-U-C-K.

[Paulstar]

It's only okay if Viciedo is getting taunted at soxfest. Not Dunn.

 

Paulstar, you S-U-C-K.

Ha, talk about your classy white sox fans, I just found one!

[hammerhead johnson]

That hurts?

[GreatScott82]

Going to my first Soxfest since the January of 2005 tomorrow. I hope there is some kind of trend here

[Paulstar]

You know, I agree that at a game a ball player can be booed and jeered and it shouldn't bother them. In an intimate setting, Q&A no less, I think people should have more respect for the guy. JMO

Alright, I understand that and agree. But I guess Im not too worried if players and managers get heckled at soxfest. I don't see it as a big deal but I'm also pretty arrogant and ignorant as you guys can probably tell

[Paulstar]

That hurts?

Haha you're funny. But if this is supposed to be a comparison it's a really poor one.

[The Ultimate Champion]

In economics and business decision-making, a sunk cost is a retrospective (past) cost that has already been incurred and cannot be recovered. Sunk costs should not affect the rational decision-maker's best choice. Evidence from behavioral economics suggests this theory fails to predict real-world behavior. Sunk costs do, in fact, influence actors' decisions because humans are prone to loss aversion and framing effects. In light of such cognitive quirks, it is unsurprising that people frequently fail to behave in ways that economists deem "rational".

 

From wikipedia but absolutely true & people here can't seem to get it, neither do the Sox. Adam Dunn is a dog. He's a sunk cost. He's done. He's not part or any future event that matters and his "value" is hilariously overstated given his track record over the past several years and how limited he is both as a player and an athlete.

 

Whoever said that line of blah blah blah im going to los it if someone (me) suggests a dump of Dunn again, well guess what? We already ate his f***ing contract, it's already over and one with, it happened a long time ago. His presence on a rebuilding team should have nothing to do with his salary, that's completely ridiculous. So go crazy.

 

Paulstar here made a great point. Who bought the f***in Soxfest tickets? The fans. They buy the tickets, they get to react however they see fit, and unless a remark is racist or something like that which has nothing to do with on-field performance it shouldn't be a condemnable offense. For f***s sake all mighty. The Sox shouldn't need to have their fan base tell them they are making an irrational and completely stupid decision, but just as the fans booed the crap KW trotted out in CF for years, they have every right to boo Dunn & it is the organization responsible for running that crap out there anyway. Let em hear it. BOOOOOOOOO where's the pooper scooper get thios guy outta here already.

[ScottyDo]

In economics and business decision-making, a sunk cost is a retrospective (past) cost that has already been incurred and cannot be recovered. Sunk costs should not affect the rational decision-maker's best choice. Evidence from behavioral economics suggests this theory fails to predict real-world behavior. Sunk costs do, in fact, influence actors' decisions because humans are prone to loss aversion and framing effects. In light of such cognitive quirks, it is unsurprising that people frequently fail to behave in ways that economists deem "rational".

 

From wikipedia but absolutely true & people here can't seem to get it, neither do the Sox. Adam Dunn is a dog. He's a sunk cost. He's done. He's not part or any future event that matters and his "value" is hilariously overstated given his track record over the past several years and how limited he is both as a player and an athlete.

 

Whoever said that line of blah blah blah im going to los it if someone (me) suggests a dump of Dunn again, well guess what? We already ate his f***ing contract, it's already over and one with, it happened a long time ago. His presence on a rebuilding team should have nothing to do with his salary, that's completely ridiculous. So go crazy.

Paulstar here made a great point. Who bought the f***in Soxfest tickets? The fans. They buy the tickets, they get to react however they see fit, and unless a remark is racist or something like that which has nothing to do with on-field performance it shouldn't be a condemnable offense. For f***s sake all mighty. The Sox shouldn't need to have their fan base tell them they are making an irrational and completely stupid decision, but just as the fans booed the crap KW trotted out in CF for years, they have every right to boo Dunn & it is the organization responsible for running that crap out there anyway. Let em hear it. BOOOOOOOOO where's the pooper scooper get thios guy outta here already.

Except Dunn's contract isn't really a sunk cost. That term doesn't apply when you have the possibility of removing the liability in the future. If Dunn plays even a little better than he did last year or in 2012, he's potentially a tradeable player, and perhaps one from whom we can scratch out a tiny bit of marginal value. The cost of his salary isn't sunk since there's potential to remove it. And the people saying "I don't want to pay him to play for another team" ARE regarding the cost of his contract as sunk. They are saying that if the money's getting paid out of our pockets no matter what, they'd rather keep his 30-40 HRs in Chicago.

 

And yes, the people paying for tickets absolutely have the right to behave like dicks. That doesn't make them not dicks.

[southsider2k5]

If my job was to play baseball I would be perfectly ok with it because BALLPLAYERS HAVE BEEN BOOED AND JEERED AT A LOT LONGER THAN WE'VE EVEN BEEN AROUND. IT'S PART OF BEING A BALLPLAYER!

 

I am glad you have decided to be the arbitrator of when people are allowed to be abused.

[southsider2k5]

Ha, talk about your classy white sox fans, I just found one!

 

It's only words, right?

[southsider2k5]

In economics and business decision-making, a sunk cost is a retrospective (past) cost that has already been incurred and cannot be recovered. Sunk costs should not affect the rational decision-maker's best choice. Evidence from behavioral economics suggests this theory fails to predict real-world behavior. Sunk costs do, in fact, influence actors' decisions because humans are prone to loss aversion and framing effects. In light of such cognitive quirks, it is unsurprising that people frequently fail to behave in ways that economists deem "rational".

 

From wikipedia but absolutely true & people here can't seem to get it, neither do the Sox. Adam Dunn is a dog. He's a sunk cost. He's done. He's not part or any future event that matters and his "value" is hilariously overstated given his track record over the past several years and how limited he is both as a player and an athlete.

 

Whoever said that line of blah blah blah im going to los it if someone (me) suggests a dump of Dunn again, well guess what? We already ate his f***ing contract, it's already over and one with, it happened a long time ago. His presence on a rebuilding team should have nothing to do with his salary, that's completely ridiculous. So go crazy.

 

Paulstar here made a great point. Who bought the f***in Soxfest tickets? The fans. They buy the tickets, they get to react however they see fit, and unless a remark is racist or something like that which has nothing to do with on-field performance it shouldn't be a condemnable offense. For f***s sake all mighty. The Sox shouldn't need to have their fan base tell them they are making an irrational and completely stupid decision, but just as the fans booed the crap KW trotted out in CF for years, they have every right to boo Dunn & it is the organization responsible for running that crap out there anyway. Let em hear it. BOOOOOOOOO where's the pooper scooper get thios guy outta here already.

 

Yes, a person should be able to shout their opinion from the mountain tops... And then cry like a little b**** when anyone does it to them.

 

Makes perfect sense to me.

[Jose Abreu]

That's bulls***. You only hurt your own credibility when you make comments like that. I've been going to SoxFest every year minus 2-3 since 1999. Every year I meet great people. Just because a couple of meatheads boo Dunn and Ventura that doesn't make the attendees idiots. Not everyone spends their free time at night/at work/at school/at home/ in waiting rooms reading about the Sox like some of us. That doesn't give you the right to act like you're some elite fan.

This.

[ewokpelts]

Every other question was either ripping Dunn or Ventura.

Not so. It was a decent seminar. But as it's the only "public" Hahn/Ventura session( Friday is much more exclusive), you KNOW there's going to be goofballs. Like Chet coppock.

[Y2Jimmy0]

That's bulls***. You only hurt your own credibility when you make comments like that. I've been going to SoxFest every year minus 2-3 since 1999. Every year I meet great people. Just because a couple of meatheads boo Dunn and Ventura that doesn't make the attendees idiots. Not everyone spends their free time at night/at work/at school/at home/ in waiting rooms reading about the Sox like some of us. That doesn't give you the right to act like you're some elite fan.

 

 

I tried to conjure up a reply but I just don't have the energy. I'll just sit here and continue to be elite with no credibility.

[caulfield12]

In economics and business decision-making, a sunk cost is a retrospective (past) cost that has already been incurred and cannot be recovered. Sunk costs should not affect the rational decision-maker's best choice. Evidence from behavioral economics suggests this theory fails to predict real-world behavior. Sunk costs do, in fact, influence actors' decisions because humans are prone to loss aversion and framing effects. In light of such cognitive quirks, it is unsurprising that people frequently fail to behave in ways that economists deem "rational". From wikipedia but absolutely true & people here can't seem to get it, neither do the Sox. Adam Dunn is a dog. He's a sunk cost. He's done. He's not part or any future event that matters and his "value" is hilariously overstated given his track record over the past several years and how limited he is both as a player and an athlete. Whoever said that line of blah blah blah im going to los it if someone (me) suggests a dump of Dunn again, well guess what? We already ate his f***ing contract, it's already over and one with, it happened a long time ago. His presence on a rebuilding team should have nothing to do with his salary, that's completely ridiculous. So go crazy. Paulstar here made a great point. Who bought the f***in Soxfest tickets? The fans. They buy the tickets, they get to react however they see fit, and unless a remark is racist or something like that which has nothing to do with on-field performance it shouldn't be a condemnable offense. For f***s sake all mighty. The Sox shouldn't need to have their fan base tell them they are making an irrational and completely stupid decision, but just as the fans booed the crap KW trotted out in CF for years, they have every right to boo Dunn & it is the organization responsible for running that crap out there anyway. Let em hear it. BOOOOOOOOO where's the pooper scooper get thios guy outta here already.

 

 

 

 

All of this would be TRUE if the White Sox had better DH options or anyone being blocked. In fact, Hahn and Reinsdorf decided to bring back Konerko when they could have given those at-bats to DeAza, for example, or Keppinger/Gillaspie (had they actually forced Paulie into retirement and dumped Dunn).

 

Are you really going to argue that Jared Mitchell or Trayce Thompson should be getting those DH at-bats against a RHP? Keppinger? Gillaspie? Leury Garcia? Jordan Danks?

 

Couldn't we also make the same argument about Jeff Keppinger (being booed/abysmal)? And, after all, Dunn put up one of the best OPS numbers on the team last year, it's not like he has been 2011 bad.

 

I'm guessing that Hahn and Co. still believe that they can get something back for Dunn at the deadline...if he has a putrid 2 or 3 months, at that point he'll be waived, but no sooner.

 

We still owe Keppinger $8.5 million for 2014 and 2015 and Dunn $15 million. There's a pretty good chance we can save $3-5 million on Dunn, if not $6 million and a marginal prospect.

 

 

 

 

The fact of the matter is that Dunn gives us a better chance to compete the first 2-3 months of the season hitting exclusively against RHP, better than DeAza does.

 

Now whether Hahn can get value back on Dunn, Keppinger, John Danks, DeAza, Gillaspie and Alexei Ramirez, we'll just have to wait and see. Obviously we had things go south with Floyd and Crain last year, but he still did a solid job maximizing the return on available assets over the last 9 months, all things considered.

 

 

 

 

 

FWIW, Adam Dunn will have made almost $113 million in his career by the of 2014.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 26, 2014 by caulfield12

[hi8is]

I don't know where you come off trying to put words in my mouth.

Where's that ignore button at again? We may not be able to put words into people's mouth but I sure can silence some.

 

Edit: Found it. Blasted.

Edited January 26, 2014 by hi8is