So call me confused

[southsider2k5]

If they weren't prepared to let the current person go then no. You can't stash guys in AAA because you don't want to give up guys you already replaced.

 

You don't turn down trades that make the team better. Period. You don't hang up on a GM because you are worried about what to do with Alejandro De Aza or Jeff Keppinger, or whoever doesn't deserve to be starting anyway.

 

If we lose Jordan Danks, oh well. There are a million Jordan Danks out there. It is why he went undrafted in the Rule V draft last year. If it means you have good players on the bench, all the better. Heck the Yankees have done this for years.

 

The reality is if De Aza were half as good as people think, he would have been pretty easy to move. The fact that he is still here, pretty clearly shows that he has no real value.

[Balta1701]

You don't turn down trades that make the team better. Period. You don't hang up on a GM because you are worried about what to do with Alejandro De Aza or Jeff Keppinger, or whoever doesn't deserve to be starting anyway.

 

If we lose Jordan Danks, oh well. There are a million Jordan Danks out there. It is why he went undrafted in the Rule V draft last year. If it means you have good players on the bench, all the better. Heck the Yankees have done this for years.

 

The reality is if De Aza were half as good as people think, he would have been pretty easy to move. The fact that he is still here, pretty clearly shows that he has no real value.

Then why are you angry about having to dump De Aza?

[ScottyDo]

You don't turn down trades that make the team better. Period. You don't hang up on a GM because you are worried about what to do with Alejandro De Aza or Jeff Keppinger, or whoever doesn't deserve to be starting anyway.

 

If we lose Jordan Danks, oh well. There are a million Jordan Danks out there. It is why he went undrafted in the Rule V draft last year. If it means you have good players on the bench, all the better. Heck the Yankees have done this for years.

 

The reality is if De Aza were half as good as people think, he would have been pretty easy to move. The fact that he is still here, pretty clearly shows that he has no real value.

I'm with you on most of this, but not the bolded. If De Aza is ideally worth 5 Arbitrary Value Units and Hahn has only received offers worth 4 AVUs, then the fact that he's still around does not mean he has no value, only that the offers don't match what Hahn considers ADA's value to be.

[LittleHurt05]

You simultaneously want us to add expensive free agents and dump our top contributors at any cost.

 

He's the reality: Sox fans will show up when we win, and won't show up when we lose. I don't care it's the goddamn Teletubbies on the roster -- attendance will correlate positively with our chances to make the playoffs.

 

Exactly. It has proven to be a very fair weather fanbase, more so than others. As excited as this board may be about these young players, it won't show in the seats until they make noise in the standings.

[iamshack]

Then why are you angry about having to dump De Aza?

There is no rush to move anyone at less than optimal value at this point. Some of these kids may not be ready, and De Aza, if nothing else, gives us some flexibility. Why start someone's service clock if the team isn't competitive yet and you have better options on the roster?

[southsider2k5]

Then why are you angry about having to dump De Aza?

 

I'm not. If he is here, he is here.

[Jerksticks]

I am more than aware. That opportunity will never come. If it did, it would be a similar feeling to hitting the lottery.

 

Honestly, I think Dunn is going to go out like Billy Koch did. Sox will eat a bit of the salary come July to get him out of town, and then he'll fade into oblivion.

 

This is probly pretty accurate man. Even if you ignore the $15 Million and focus solely on what he offers as a hitter, I still can't imagine another GM thinking Dunn is the missing piece to a championship run. I'd be shocked if a team wanted a guy who can barely knock out 100 hits in a whole year now, with more than half of his other 400 ABs not even putting the ball in play.

 

Now you gotta pay him 15 or maybe 6 million dollars at the deadline. Wait the white sox want a prospect too?

 

[Vance Law]

If they weren't willing to give people away then they shouldn't have traded for replacements.

 

 

-Rick Hahn:

 

“This is going to take some time, and there will be various junctures where the big-league roster might not necessarily look right, like today,” Hahn said. “You could say, ‘You have an extra DH or you’ve got an extra outfielder or there’s a little bit of a logjam in the infield, what are you going to do?’ The important thing for us is to have the right players under control, who have the opportunity to play and develop, so that they’re going to be part of that next run once we get there, not necessarily to have the roster be seamless on any given day.

 

“We see the redundancies that are there, and that may, at some point, lead to trades. But we’re not going to force it, and we’re going to wait for the right opportunity to pull the trigger.”

[ScottyDo]

-Rick Hahn:

 

“This is going to take some time, and there will be various junctures where the big-league roster might not necessarily look right, like today,” Hahn said. “You could say, ‘You have an extra DH or you’ve got an extra outfielder or there’s a little bit of a logjam in the infield, what are you going to do?’ The important thing for us is to have the right players under control, who have the opportunity to play and develop, so that they’re going to be part of that next run once we get there, not necessarily to have the roster be seamless on any given day.

 

“We see the redundancies that are there, and that may, at some point, lead to trades. But we’re not going to force it, and we’re going to wait for the right opportunity to pull the trigger.”

I like the answer and to some extent it's true -- they may be willing to deal with a 4-man OF rotation for a couple of months -- but it's not fully honest.

 

The Sox absolutely need to trade some of their players, and sooner rather than later as those players slowly lose value. But they need it to appear as though they have absolutely no urgency or they'll never sniff their asking price. Hahn is trying his best to maintain a necessary illusion, though I'm sure nobody's fooled. If he can really sell this position, more power to him. I just don't buy that they're fine blocking their players or diminishing their assets.

 

If they weren't willing to give people away then they shouldn't have traded for replacements.

As far as "not trading for their replacements without being willing to give the current player away", that's hyperbolic, and much better than the alternative. You need to be able to accept some lost trade value on those guys but it doesn't necessitate dumping them. And it's much better than trading ADA or Gillaspie before landing Eaton or Davidson. What do you do if you fail?

Edited January 29, 2014 by ScottyDo

[Vance Law]

Even if you ignore the $15 Million and focus solely on what he offers as a hitter, I still can't imagine another GM thinking Dunn is the missing piece to a championship run.

 

He has hit 75 home runs over the last 2 years. You are right, he's no Geoff Blum.

[iamshack]

I like the answer and to some extent it's true -- they may be willing to deal with a 4-man OF rotation for a couple of months -- but it's not fully honest.

 

The Sox absolutely need to trade some of their players, and sooner rather than later as those players slowly lose value. But they need it to appear as though they have absolutely no urgency or they'll never sniff their asking price. Hahn is trying his best to maintain a necessary illusion, though I'm sure nobody's fooled. If he can really sell this position, more power to him. I just don't buy that they're fine blocking their players or diminishing their assets.

 

 

As far as "not trading for their replacements without being willing to give the current player away", that's hyperbolic, and much better than the alternative. You need to be able to accept some lost trade value on those guys but it doesn't necessitate dumping them. And it's much better than trading ADA or Gillaspie before landing Eaton or Davidson. What do you do if you fail?

I don't agree. I think Hahn's answer is exactly correct. What does it matter if there are redundancies on a roster that is far from competing? If it provides value somehow (flexibility for the young players, including development at the AAA level instead of service time at the mlb level), those redundant players are providing value separate and apart from their mlb production, are they not?

[ScottyDo]

I don't agree. I think Hahn's answer is exactly correct. What does it matter if there are redundancies on a roster that is far from competing? If it provides value somehow (flexibility for the young players, including development at the AAA level instead of service time at the mlb level), those redundant players are providing value separate and apart from their mlb production, are they not?

Kind of, but if Davidson's ready for an extended shot then Gillaspie's gotta hit the road, and there's no room on the roster to stash both of them. There's no way to get anything for Gillaspie at that point, whereas you might be able to get something right now. Same with De Aza, only his value was probably higher to begin with and thus there is more at risk by letting him platoon/ride the bench. If there was more room on the roster, I'd agree that you don't have redundancy, you have depth and insurance. But there are only 25 spots. Not much wiggle room.

Edited January 29, 2014 by ScottyDo

[iamshack]

Kind of, but if Davidson's ready for an extended shot then Gillaspie's gotta hit the road, and there's no room on the roster to stash both of them. There's no way to get anything for Gillaspie at that point, whereas you might be able to get something right now. Same with De Aza, only his value was probably higher to begin with and thus there is more at risk by letting him platoon/ride the bench. If there was more room on the roster, I'd agree that you don't have redundancy, you have depth and insurance. But there are only 25 spots. Not much wiggle room.

Well, I guess you need to have all the information (what standing offers are for these players), otherwise it's impossible to evaluate. I trust that Hahn is smart enough to make the correct evaluations/decisions at this point.

[southsider2k5]

Kind of, but if Davidson's ready for an extended shot then Gillaspie's gotta hit the road, and there's no room on the roster to stash both of them. There's no way to get anything for Gillaspie at that point, whereas you might be able to get something right now. Same with De Aza, only his value was probably higher to begin with and thus there is more at risk by letting him platoon/ride the bench. If there was more room on the roster, I'd agree that you don't have redundancy, you have depth and insurance. But there are only 25 spots. Not much wiggle room.

 

If there was something to get for these guys, they would be gone. Connor was traded for Jeff Soptic last year. What exactly are people expecting he is worth now?

[witesoxfan]

He didn't have any trade value or he would have been gone already. The rest of MLB saw his play last year too.

 

I think you are very wrong on this. Teams deal with flawed players all the time. Regardless of his boneheadedness, De Aza still provides positive value. I think we were spoiled with his 2012. I think he's a .260/.330/.400 kind of player with plus speed. He's not a good base runner, but currently has the speed to make up for those deficiencies. He's an average to above average MLB player.

 

The problem the Sox have with De Aza is the Granderson conundrum. He's nearing 30 and he's providing inferior intrinsic value to the Sox in that he is preventing the Sox from getting an extended view of other players. I mention that no one would miss Danks Jr, but just the same as Phegley, he destroyed AAA pitching during his final go around. They may as well see if any of that can translate to the majors. If it can, they have, well, De Aza-blanc on their hands.

[hogan873]

The Sox are in a situation now where they can afford to wait and see what they might get for the likes of De Aza, Gillaspie, and Keppinger. I don't think anyone, the Sox front office included, thinks that they'll be able to get much for any of them. But, they can still look for the best deal. Having these extra bodies right now is more of a "good" problem than a "bad" problem. It's not like they have to dump salary, and Keppinger is really the only one where money is a concern (I'm not talking about Dunn, so don't bring that up). The true purpose of moving any of these guys is going to be to clear space for the young talent that has been acquired...if they are ready. If and when any of these guys are moved, the reaction here on Soxtalk will most likely be a shoulder shrug because they're not going to get a great return. But, Hahn will still be looking for the best deal and won't be making a trade just to make a trade.

[southsider2k5]

I think you are very wrong on this. Teams deal with flawed players all the time. Regardless of his boneheadedness, De Aza still provides positive value. I think we were spoiled with his 2012. I think he's a .260/.330/.400 kind of player with plus speed. He's not a good base runner, but currently has the speed to make up for those deficiencies. He's an average to above average MLB player.

 

The problem the Sox have with De Aza is the Granderson conundrum. He's nearing 30 and he's providing inferior intrinsic value to the Sox in that he is preventing the Sox from getting an extended view of other players. I mention that no one would miss Danks Jr, but just the same as Phegley, he destroyed AAA pitching during his final go around. They may as well see if any of that can translate to the majors. If it can, they have, well, De Aza-blanc on their hands.

 

Then why is he still here?

[witesoxfan]

Then why is he still here?

 

There are still a number of other outfielders available on the free agent market, and it's possible, as was pointed out earlier, that the Sox simply have not gotten an offer they liked yet. There are a few teams that could certainly use him, but there are a lot of teams that probably view him as a 4th outfielder at this point - including the White Sox - with the potential to start. You don't give up a lot for that, and the Sox want to deal him as a starter. Come spring time, injuries will arise or teams will find out their initial options blow and they'll look to trade for him. Teams could also be waiting out the Sox, seeing that they have depth in the outfield, and basically saying to themselves "they'll have to deal him eventually."

 

I'm glad Hahn is showing the patience he has because it will result in a greater return for the Sox.

[Swingandalongonetoleft]

Hahn has mentioned he is worried about left handed pop in our lineup.

 

Iggy Pop is left handed.

[GreenSox]

These players like Keppinger are going to have to be dressed up before they can trade them. If we're going to give him away for organizational minor leaguers, just DFA him and be done with it. So we put DAvidson in AAA and not rush every decent young player for a change. It will also give Gillaspie another year to see what he has going for him.

 

We'll move De Aza, when teams get desperate, likely in July. Until then, have a good OF bench for a change - nice change from DeWayne Wise.

 

If Dunn has good first half, he should be a relatiely easy flip in July, as he has an expiring contract.

Keppinger will be more difficult, as we're on the hook for another year with him.

[harfman77]

Isn't it possible that De Aza opens the season as the starting CF? The Sox could get Eaton warmed up in Charlotte while showcasing De Aza for a trade in June. It keeps Eaton's service time down and allows the Sox to market their assets in the outfield. Plus you get your young core of Semien, Eaton, Davidson, and Sanchez playing together everyday.

[Balta1701]

Isn't it possible that De Aza opens the season as the starting CF? The Sox could get Eaton warmed up in Charlotte while showcasing De Aza for a trade in June. It keeps Eaton's service time down and allows the Sox to market their assets in the outfield. Plus you get your young core of Semien, Eaton, Davidson, and Sanchez playing together everyday.

Adam Eaton being stuck in the minors to keep his service time down would frankly be a cheap, bush-league move. This is a guy who already earned a big league starting OF spot last year for a team. He gets hurt, sure he can go to the minors, but this is a 25 year old who has done his time.

[Dick Allen]

Isn't it possible that De Aza opens the season as the starting CF? The Sox could get Eaton warmed up in Charlotte while showcasing De Aza for a trade in June. It keeps Eaton's service time down and allows the Sox to market their assets in the outfield. Plus you get your young core of Semien, Eaton, Davidson, and Sanchez playing together everyday.

I think Eaton would have to be hurt or just awful in spring training not to be starting on Opening Day. He and Abreu are locks for Chicago. The others could all wind up in Charlotte. My opinion of course.

[GreenSox]

Isn't it possible that De Aza opens the season as the starting CF? The Sox could get Eaton warmed up in Charlotte while showcasing De Aza for a trade in June. It keeps Eaton's service time down and allows the Sox to market their assets in the outfield. Plus you get your young core of Semien, Eaton, Davidson, and Sanchez playing together everyday.

If the Sox wanted to do that, they'd have traded for a CF prospect instead of a ML ready CF.

[royoung]

I think Eaton would have to be hurt or just awful in spring training not to be starting on Opening Day. He and Abreu are locks for Chicago. The others could all wind up in Charlotte. My opinion of course.

 

I think Garcia has to be close to a lock as well based on his performance later in the year, right or wrong. Davidson is on the fence leaning towards Charlotte IMO.