brian310 Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 If they could get a solid prospect in return for Dunn, then would no longer be here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 QUOTE (The Ginger Kid @ Jan 28, 2014 -> 02:31 PM) Can they seriously compete with Detroit as they're built right now? I can't see how management would think so. If Dunn could bring a solid prospect in return for a year of his services then I'd be up for it. It would take a worst case type scenario in Detroit, and a best case one on the south side. The only way Dunn would get anything is if the Sox picked up almost all of his deal, and even then, the player we got wouldn't be worth the money we sent out. You sit on him and see if someone needs him in July. It isn't like Dunn is holding back a top prospect or anything. A good comp for Dunn right now would be Mark Reynolds, who got a minor league deal and an invite to spring training. Dunn has no value at all on the trade market. Edit: Reynolds can earn $2 million next year with MIL. That would take the Sox picking up $13 million for his deal next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brian310 Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 I think if the sox can get something back for him on July 31, then you might as well offer to pay he remaining 5 mill left at that point in the year just to fully maximize his value. At that point in the season, you would have already paid the man 10 mill anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 QUOTE (The Ginger Kid @ Jan 28, 2014 -> 02:31 PM) Can they seriously compete with Detroit as they're built right now? I can't see how management would think so. If Dunn could bring a solid prospect in return for a year of his services then I'd be up for it. Yeah, I should say, if someone eats the whole $15 mill, they wouldn't even need anything back. They can just rotate guys in and out and keep De Aza in that situation. That's not going to happen though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vance Law Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Jan 28, 2014 -> 09:39 AM) It would have been much easier to trade Keppinger before re-signing Konerko and acquiring Davidson. Now every team knows Hahn is desperate to move him. If it was easy to move Keppinger then, he would have done it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jan 28, 2014 -> 02:54 PM) Yeah, I should say, if someone eats the whole $15 mill, they wouldn't even need anything back. They can just rotate guys in and out and keep De Aza in that situation. That's not going to happen though. Again, Mark Reynolds just signed a minor league deal with a chance at $2 million. Adam Dunn is pretty much worthless right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jan 28, 2014 -> 12:54 PM) If that is the biggest problem the White Sox have in 2014, a lot of people are going to winning awards with the organization. I'm just gonna keep using that one on my wife. "If that's the biggest problem we face this year, we have a great marriage going on." And hopefully I can keep ignoring the problem then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 28, 2014 -> 02:55 PM) Again, Mark Reynolds just signed a minor league deal with a chance at $2 million. Adam Dunn is pretty much worthless right now. I am more than aware. That opportunity will never come. If it did, it would be a similar feeling to hitting the lottery. Honestly, I think Dunn is going to go out like Billy Koch did. Sox will eat a bit of the salary come July to get him out of town, and then he'll fade into oblivion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vance Law Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Jan 28, 2014 -> 04:58 PM) I'm just gonna keep using that one on my wife. "If that's the biggest problem we face this year, we have a great marriage going on." And hopefully I can keep ignoring the problem then. Players will get injured. Players on other teams. White Sox players. It has happened literally every year that baseball has been played. Every year that any sport anywhere has been played. If the Sox have slightly more "starting" players than there are positions for the first weeks or month or even two of the season, whooo caaaaares! And whyyyyy! Adam Dunn will be playing for another team by somewhere in the middle of the season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 As long as Dunn hits fairly well the first few months of the season, and as long as the Sox are not in 1st place in July... Dunn will get traded near the deadline to a contender, in exchange for a lottery ticket prospect at best (org filler at worst). Someone like Andy Wilkins will play the LHH DH role for a few months if he does well at AAA, if not, they'll just rotate other guys through that slot. Then we'll see someone new at DH for 2015, possibly Viciedo if he progresses, possibly someone outside the org. In any case, he isn't going anywhere right now because right now he gets nothing of value. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Jan 28, 2014 -> 04:02 PM) As long as Dunn hits fairly well the first few months of the season, and as long as the Sox are not in 1st place in July... Dunn will get traded near the deadline to a contender, in exchange for a lottery ticket prospect at best (org filler at worst). Someone like Andy Wilkins will play the LHH DH role for a few months if he does well at AAA, if not, they'll just rotate other guys through that slot. Then we'll see someone new at DH for 2015, possibly Viciedo if he progresses, possibly someone outside the org. In any case, he isn't going anywhere right now because right now he gets nothing of value. When they deal him, they may take the maximum amount they can too (on July 31st, it would be like everything but about $167K). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brian310 Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Jan 28, 2014 -> 04:02 PM) As long as Dunn hits fairly well the first few months of the season, and as long as the Sox are not in 1st place in July... Dunn will get traded near the deadline to a contender, in exchange for a lottery ticket prospect at best (org filler at worst). Someone like Andy Wilkins will play the LHH DH role for a few months if he does well at AAA, if not, they'll just rotate other guys through that slot. Then we'll see someone new at DH for 2015, possibly Viciedo if he progresses, possibly someone outside the org. In any case, he isn't going anywhere right now because right now he gets nothing of value. Well if De Aza is still on the team at that point, then I think Viciedo would get at bats in the DH spot and then De Aza would start in left. It would essentially become a De Aza/Paulie platoon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rowand's rowdies Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 Some people think that real pro sports are the same as in the video games they play, with injuries off, so extra players never get to play. Thank you Vance for again pointing out it is OK to have a surplus, as slumps and injuries will happen. I don't get the freaking out over our 4 OF for 3 spots. Like you said, Puck Dunn, he can sit every game and Viciedo can DH for all I care. "De Aza is getting paid like a starter he can't be our 4th OF" - This comment is so off base on so many levels I don't care to even write them out. Relax, our White Sox need all the talent we can get. We can always trade some midseason. It's not like we have a World Series squad ready to roll into the season. And honestly, if you know your team is not even playoff worthy, all focus should be on finding out what you have and ridding yourself of non essential future players, when their value is high enough to get a possible future piece in return. Dumping a player like Dunn, De Aza, or Kepp for nothing may get ABs for younger players and save $, but the goal should be to get future assets for them, not just to clear space and dump salary, and that's what I believe Hahn is doing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 Well, I think the thought is just that it's not ideal for De Aza to ride the bench because he loses value on the trade market there, which he does. Like I said, I have no problem with keeping him because there'll be room for him next year too. I think he'll end up getting dealt shortly anyways, so I'm not too concerned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rowand's rowdies Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 The book is out on De Aza. Every GM and serious baseball fan knows what he is and is not capable of. I don't think he loses value on the bench at all. He loses value with a serious injury playing in games, though. Just my thoughts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 QUOTE (rowand's rowdies @ Jan 28, 2014 -> 05:42 PM) The book is out on De Aza. Every GM and serious baseball fan knows what he is and is not capable of. I don't think he loses value on the bench at all. He loses value with a serious injury playing in games, though. Just my thoughts. Even if he hits under .240 with an under-.700 OPS for his first 200 at bats like he did last season? And that winds up being his numbers in July because h e got fewer PA's? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vance Law Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jan 28, 2014 -> 05:28 PM) Well, I think the thought is just that it's not ideal for De Aza to ride the bench because he loses value on the trade market there, which he does. 1) he doesn't need to ride the bench. you can mix and match with 4 outfielders and 3 spots and he also pinch hits, pinch runs, and defensive replaces. 2) we're talking about a finite period of time, until Dunn is inevitably traded (near the deadline or sooner when/if a team suddenly has a need) or one or more of Abreu, Dunn, Viciedo, Eaton, Garcia (or De Aza) hits the DL QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jan 28, 2014 -> 05:28 PM) Like I said, I have no problem with keeping him because there'll be room for him next year too. I think he'll end up getting dealt shortly anyways, so I'm not too concerned. You're right, he may well be traded soon. Gillaspie might, Keppinger might, Dunn might. My point is simply that none of these players turn into a pumpkin if they're not traded by opening day as some posters here seem to feel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jan 28, 2014 -> 04:28 PM) Well, I think the thought is just that it's not ideal for De Aza to ride the bench because he loses value on the trade market there, which he does. Like I said, I have no problem with keeping him because there'll be room for him next year too. I think he'll end up getting dealt shortly anyways, so I'm not too concerned. He didn't have any trade value or he would have been gone already. The rest of MLB saw his play last year too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vance Law Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 28, 2014 -> 07:17 PM) He didn't have any trade value or he would have been gone already. The rest of MLB saw his play last year too. His play was inferior to his talent last year. Inferior to what he did in 2012 and 2011. So he has more value to us than what we'd currently get. Even still Tank Viciedo didn't manage to hit as many home runs as this lead off hitter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 QUOTE (Vance Law @ Jan 28, 2014 -> 05:26 PM) His play was inferior to his talent last year. Inferior to what he did in 2012 and 2011. So he has more value to us than what we'd currently get. Even still Tank Viciedo didn't manage to hit as many home runs as this lead off hitter. Again, this is why he is still here. They aren't going to give him away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 28, 2014 -> 07:49 PM) Again, this is why he is still here. They aren't going to give him away. If they weren't willing to give people away then they shouldn't have traded for replacements. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Jan 28, 2014 -> 04:02 PM) As long as Dunn hits fairly well the first few months of the season, and as long as the Sox are not in 1st place in July... Dunn will get traded near the deadline to a contender, in exchange for a lottery ticket prospect at best (org filler at worst). Someone like Andy Wilkins will play the LHH DH role for a few months if he does well at AAA, if not, they'll just rotate other guys through that slot. Then we'll see someone new at DH for 2015, possibly Viciedo if he progresses, possibly someone outside the org. In any case, he isn't going anywhere right now because right now he gets nothing of value. Sox fans hate Dunn. The atmosphere at the park is already depressing because it's 85% empty, hearing 6k try and muster up enough to boo a guy makes you not want to go to that park. He needs to go ASAP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jan 28, 2014 -> 06:53 PM) If they weren't willing to give people away then they shouldn't have traded for replacements. So until they traded someone, they shouldn't have acquired anyone better? That is just silly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 (edited) QUOTE (Marty34 @ Jan 28, 2014 -> 06:54 PM) Sox fans hate Dunn. The atmosphere at the park is already depressing because it's 85% empty, hearing 6k try and muster up enough to boo a guy makes you not want to go to that park. He needs to go ASAP. You simultaneously want us to add expensive free agents and dump our top contributors at any cost. Here's the reality: Sox fans will show up when we win, and won't show up when we lose. I don't care it's the goddamn Teletubbies on the roster -- attendance will correlate positively with our chances to make the playoffs. Edited January 29, 2014 by Eminor3rd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 28, 2014 -> 08:21 PM) So until they traded someone, they shouldn't have acquired anyone better? That is just silly. If they weren't prepared to let the current person go then no. You can't stash guys in AAA because you don't want to give up guys you already replaced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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