Northwestern Wildcat Players Attempt to Unionize

[southsider2k5]

Grad students can receive full-ride scholarships plus stipends (and work outside of school if they want, which can be very difficult to student athletes to do because of NCAA rules) without it being taxable income.

 

They're pressing for various things, but they aren't arguing for big paychecks right now.

 

At the end of the day, they want the best of both worlds. They want the free ride, and they want to get all of the benefits of work. If anyone else got a $100,000 gift, they would be paying taxes on it.

[StrangeSox]

See above. I think it's much easier to make the case that a grad student is an employee because you can pinpoint the service and the responding wage.

I think it's pretty easy to pinpoint that service that players on a DI football team are providing for the school. If the coach is providing services to the university as an employee to justify over $2M/year in compensation, I don't know how you can argue that the players that are actually playing the game he's coaching aren't providing services to the university.

 

I'll also reiterate that, at least right now, it's not about wages but about working conditions, health/safety and scholarship guarantees.

[StrangeSox]

At the end of the day, they want the best of both worlds. They want the free ride, and they want to get all of the benefits of work. If anyone else got a $100,000 gift, they would be paying taxes on it.

Grad students get scholarships with stipends and union recognition without being taxed on the scholarship.

 

It's also pretty odd to call it a "free ride" here. Athletic scholarships are provided in exchange for services, not out of the kindness of the university's heart.

[southsider2k5]

Grad students get scholarships with stipends and union recognition without being taxed on the scholarship.

 

It's also pretty odd to call it a "free ride" here. Athletic scholarships are provided in exchange for services, not out of the kindness of the university's heart.

 

Again, if anyone else got a $100,000 (or more) gift, they would be paying taxes on it.

 

If anyone else exchanged $25,000 or $30,000 worth of services they would be paying taxes on it.

 

If they want to be recognized as employees, I am all for it. Just let them get the good and bad.

[witesoxfan]

Presumably something like this would be argued for by the players' union rep with the NCAA, whereas currently they don't really have a voice.

 

That's my biggest issue with the NCAA. I like the idea of protections for the players in the event of injury and extending scholarships to players based on certain conditions (staying at the program 4 years or whatever), but at the end of the day, they still receive a lot of benefits from the college that normal students do not. But why is it illegal for Johnny Manziel to sell his autograph for money or the Ohio State players to sell their Rose Bowl rings for tattoos? They earned that status/reward and it's their own property, why can't they sell it?

[StrangeSox]

Again, if anyone else got a $100,000 (or more) gift, they would be paying taxes on it.

 

If, hypothetically, student-athletes could begin receiving endorsements and outside income, they'd be taxed on it. If they received a gift of $100,000, they'd be taxed on it. If they received a scholarship, though, they aren't (as long as it meets certain IRS rules).

 

If anyone else exchanged $25,000 or $30,000 worth of services they would be paying taxes on it.

 

Graduate students receive similar scholarships in addition to stipends and don't have to adhere to the NCAA's outside employment rules, either. They do not have to pay taxes on their scholarships.

 

If my company gives me tuition reimbursement as a benefit in addition to my salary, it's not taxable as long as it's below a certain amount.

 

If they want to be recognized as employees, I am all for it. Just let them get the good and bad.

 

If they are recognized as employees similar to how grad students are, some part of their scholarship may be taxable but the bulk of it would not under current law. I see no reason to spitefully change the IRS rules on scholarship taxation if athletes form a union.

[Balta1701]

That's my biggest issue with the NCAA. I like the idea of protections for the players in the event of injury and extending scholarships to players based on certain conditions (staying at the program 4 years or whatever), but at the end of the day, they still receive a lot of benefits from the college that normal students do not. But why is it illegal for Johnny Manziel to sell his autograph for money or the Ohio State players to sell their Rose Bowl rings for tattoos? They earned that status/reward and it's their own property, why can't they sell it?

Key point...the word "illegal" there...none of those kids were charged with or committed a crime, only NCAA violations.

[bmags]

Maybe I'm crazy, but if that 100k gift is used toward tuition I'm pretty sure there are huge tax breaks for income that is tied to that.

[StrangeSox]

Maybe I'm crazy, but if that 100k gift is used toward tuition I'm pretty sure there are huge tax breaks for income that is tied to that.

good catch

[witesoxfan]

Key point...the word "illegal" there...none of those kids were charged with or committed a crime, only NCAA violations.

 

That's what I meant, under NCAA rules. They shouldn't even be slapped on the wrist. It shouldn't be illegal. They see an absolutely absurd amount of profit and the players see nothing. They're the biggest hypocrites in the world.

[pettie4sox]

That's what I meant, under NCAA rules. They shouldn't even be slapped on the wrist. It shouldn't be illegal. They see an absolutely absurd amount of profit and the players see nothing. They're the biggest hypocrites in the world.

 

There are basically saying, we made you famous and you can't profiteer off of it.

 

Seriously, I bet very few people knew Manziel before coming to A&M.

[witesoxfan]

There are basically saying, we made you famous and you can't profiteer off of it.

 

Seriously, I bet very few people knew Manziel before coming to A&M.

 

That's still a load of crap.

 

It's exactly like the record industry taking like 93% of the cut from it's artists.

Edited January 28, 2014 by witesoxfan

[southsider2k5]

That's still a load of crap.

 

It's exactly like the record industry taking like 93% of the cut from it's artists.

 

Pretty much every industry takes a 93% cut from its employees.

[Balta1701]

Pretty much every industry takes a 93% cut from its employees.

Maybe more industries should try unionizing then?

[DukeNukeEm]

Maybe more industries should try unionizing then?

Like Americans would upset their masters like that.

[ptatc]

good point. That scholarship would become pretty expensive if they had to pay taxes on it.

Taxes are taken out of scholarships. The students don't "pay" them however the amount of the scholarship must be higher to cover it.

[TaylorStSox]

At the end of the day, they want the best of both worlds. They want the free ride, and they want to get all of the benefits of work. If anyone else got a $100,000 gift, they would be paying taxes on it.

In principle, you're right. However. Students on athletic scholarships in the 2 major sports generate far more income than the cost of their scholarship. The universities and NCAA make billions off the labor and likeness of these kids. The scholarship isn't proportionate to the income they generate.

[southsider2k5]

In principle, you're right. However. Students on athletic scholarships in the 2 major sports generate far more income than the cost of their scholarship. The universities and NCAA make billions off the labor and likeness of these kids. The scholarship isn't proportionate to the income they generate.

 

BS. Welcome to adulthood. Everyone gets paid in proportion to what they generate... Just no one likes their own portion.

[greg775]

The rest of the players in NCAA basketball and football should take advantage of Northwestern's due diligence. The NW players did all the work. Now all this needs is publicity and just a tad bit of organization at each school to jump aboard.

Northwestern should do a nationwide advertisement saying they'd like a recent ftball or basketball graduate of each school to contact somebody in charge of this. NW has done the work; I'd hate to see this go to waste.

[TaylorStSox]

BS. Welcome to adulthood. Everyone gets paid in proportion to what they generate... Just no one likes their own portion.

Yeah, while the NCAA makes billions off the tournament using these kid's labor and likeness, the kids get $12 a day for meals. Totally in proportion.

[StrangeSox]

BS. Welcome to adulthood. Everyone gets paid in proportion to what they generate... Just no one likes their own portion.

Even if we accept the claim that everyone gets paid in proportion to what they generate at face value (lol no), in "adulthood" the entire employment market isn't controlled by one cartel that completely forbids you from any form of outside compensation while turning around and profiting off of the very same celebrity. And you can unionize.

 

These players can't shop their services around, they can't negotiate compensation packages, they can't sign endorsement deals on the side or often even take a regular part-time job without jumping through a bunch of hoops.

[StrangeSox]

The rest of the players in NCAA basketball and football should take advantage of Northwestern's due diligence. The NW players did all the work. Now all this needs is publicity and just a tad bit of organization at each school to jump aboard.

Northwestern should do a nationwide advertisement saying they'd like a recent ftball or basketball graduate of each school to contact somebody in charge of this. NW has done the work; I'd hate to see this go to waste.

All they've done so far is file the paperwork. They've still got a very long fight ahead to get the union recognized, which they may not be able to under current law. If and when they're successful, I'm sure we'll see more players joining in. Might even see more support/solidarity patches like some NW players wore last year.

 

Also NW University doesn't support this, this is the players acting on their own.

[ptatc]

Even if we accept the claim that everyone gets paid in proportion to what they generate at face value (lol no), in "adulthood" the entire employment market isn't controlled by one cartel that completely forbids you from any form of outside compensation while turning around and profiting off of the very same celebrity. And you can unionize.

 

These players can't shop their services around, they can't negotiate compensation packages, they can't sign endorsement deals on the side or often even take a regular part-time job without jumping through a bunch of hoops.

The other side is that they are getting alot of compensation for playing a sport. Most will not go on to make a living at the sport. They may not have been accepted to the school without the the scholarship. Being allowed a free education as well as cost of living money is more than 90% of the athletes will get later on. This education sets them up for life if they take advantage of it.

Although I agree the unionization is a good idea for protection from mostly medical issues as far as "working conditions" are concerned.

[TaylorStSox]

The NCAA is a billion dollar business with free labor. Coaches are millionaires. AD's are millionaires. It must be nice.

[StrangeSox]

The other side is that they are getting alot of compensation for playing a sport. Most will not go on to make a living at the sport. They may not have been accepted to the school without the the scholarship. Being allowed a free education as well as cost of living money is more than 90% of the athletes will get later on. This education sets them up for life if they take advantage of it.

 

Well, it's not exactly a great employment market for college graduates these past six years now. I don't see how that's the "other side," though. The stance that it's about protecting amateurism or the sanctity of the game is as hollow as Bud Selig talking about PEDs. College sports are full of corruption, both NCAA violations and legal problems. It's a multi-billion dollar industry that makes multi-millionaires out of coaches and AD's (and conference TV station executives/personalities etc.) and hasn't been about amateurism in a long, long time. The Olympics haven't been ruined by allowing professionals to participate.

 

I don't think the NCAA needs some sort of mandatory "pay athletes a salary" rule, but they need to stop locking them out of the overwhelming majority of the profits that the athletes are generating.