Sox still trying to trade Dunn?

[southsider2k5]

The White Sox are a rebuilding team with money. Isn't exploiting market inefficiencies what smart teams should do?

 

It is. Which is why they shouldn't be doing it, because Santana and Jimenez aren't cheap, even if they are cheaper than others.

 

The true market inefficiency is in developing your own dirt cheap pitching, which is exactly what the Sox do better than most anyone else in baseball.

[Vance Law]

Is there an ignore button?

[bigruss]

The White Sox are a rebuilding team with money. Isn't exploiting market inefficiencies what smart teams should do?

So far there are 30 non-smart teams then, there's a reason why teams aren't signing these guys.

Edited February 3, 2014 by bigruss22

[witesoxfan]

Is there an ignore button?

 

Actually, yes there is. Click on a user's name, go to their profile, and click on the options drop down list. Click ignore user, and confirm on the following screen.

 

You will still see their quoted posts, but not the original.

[southsider2k5]

Is there an ignore button?

 

Yes.

[Marty34]

He has no *trade* value at the moment because of his contract. He has plenty of value as a hitter, especially against right handed pitching. If he hits well in a platoon, the Sox could easily get someone to eat $2-5 million of his deal, which is $2-5 million the White Sox don't have to pay and will pay if they release him.

 

It's also of note that the Sox likely are working with teams and willing to eat quite a bit of his salary to facilitate a trade, but outright releasing him isn't going to happen. You can argue it till you're blue in the face, but it's not going to happen, so you're ultimately wasting your time.

 

This is a mistake by Hahn.

 

The Ultimate Champion has put this argument to rest very eloquently. Dunn shouldn't be on the Opening Day roster.

 

[Marty34]

What are you talking about? What market inefficiency?

 

There's also the aspect of marginal value that you are, for whatever reason, not taking into consideration. Jimenez might be worth 4 more wins than Erik Johnson over the duration of his contract. Do you really want to spend $50-60 million for 4 wins over 4 years? I'm saying, literally, that instead of 77 this year, you'd win 78. Do you truly, honestly, 100% believe that's a smart business decision? If you do, then I'd like to sell you apples that are better than the ones you can get in the store (but only marginally so) for $10 a piece.

 

 

If you think the Sox will be in a position to contend for a playoff spot over the next 4 years, Jimenez is an absolute steal.

[Marty34]

Is this a serious question?

 

Say you're running a laundromat, and you have Seven washing machines. Five of them are usually sufficient to get the job done, but there are two of them that occasionally need maintenance so the other two, lesser quality ones are used. They get the job done, but not as well. You are spending $200 a day to run these and take home $400, and you continually make a profit of $200.

 

Someone offers you the opportunity to bring in another washing machine that is just as good as the first five (though you, being a smart businessman, know it's not necessary because you only need five). This increases your daily costs to $350. You are still only bringing in $400, but now you've cut your profits to $50.

 

Define.

[ScottyDo]

What are you talking about? What market inefficiency?

 

There's also the aspect of marginal value that you are, for whatever reason, not taking into consideration. Jimenez might be worth 4 more wins than Erik Johnson over the duration of his contract. Do you really want to spend $50-60 million for 4 wins over 4 years? I'm saying, literally, that instead of 77 this year, you'd win 78. Do you truly, honestly, 100% believe that's a smart business decision? If you do, then I'd like to sell you apples that are better than the ones you can get in the store (but only marginally so) for $10 a piece.

Marty is under the impression that Jimenez and Santana's prices are low only because the Big Players aren't in on them, thus we can get them for lower than they're worth. He does not acknowledge the possibility that the Yankees aren't in on them because they aren't good enough to fight over. This is how Marty defines a Can't Miss Opportunity! Smarter than 30 GMs.

[The Ultimate Champion]

Is this a serious question?

 

Say you're running a laundromat, and you have Seven washing machines. Five of them are usually sufficient to get the job done, but there are two of them that occasionally need maintenance so the other two, lesser quality ones are used. They get the job done, but not as well. You are spending $200 a day to run these and take home $400, and you continually make a profit of $200.

 

Someone offers you the opportunity to bring in another washing machine that is just as good as the first five (though you, being a smart businessman, know it's not necessary because you only need five). This increases your daily costs to $350. You are still only bringing in $400, but now you've cut your profits to $50.

So you've got 7 washing machines but you only have the demand for 5? And yet you still insist on paying extra maintenance costs for two dated machines which demand doesn't even necessitate?

 

Hmm, this all reminds me of the dilemma the Sox are facing with Dunn. They've already spent the money on Dunn, just like you have already bought 7 washing machines. Two of these machines are defective (presumably well out of warranty as they'd have both been replaced by any no-lemon guarantee) just like Dunn is a defective #4 hitter. Both the extra washing machines and Dunn are unnecessary for the future success of the business.

 

With your washing machines, rather than continue to pay into a sunk cost which you already know was an unnecessary investment in the first place, the proper choice would be to liquidate your 2 extra washing machines (take whatever you can get for them and stop paying into them via maintenance costs) and then when demand increases to where you need a 6th washing machine, you can then buy a new one under a new warranty which will cover you into the future. Similarly, the Sox should take whatever they can get out of their own sunk cost i.e. Dunn rather than continue to invest resources (playing time) into it. Dunn - thank you for the analogy wite - is basically the baseball version of a defective washing machine that was completely unnecessary in the first place.

[witesoxfan]

This is a mistake by Hahn.

 

The Ultimate Champion has put this argument to rest very eloquently. Dunn shouldn't be on the Opening Day roster.

 

I've done the same. There's no harm in having Dunn on the roster - who is he legitimately holding back? De Aza? people want to string him up by his toenails too - so, if it's a sunk cost, and you can possibly recover some of that cost, you have a win. That is Finance 101.

 

If you think the Sox will be in a position to contend for a playoff spot over the next 4 years, Jimenez is an absolute steal.

 

How? Do you understand what marginal value is? There could easily be a large hole that opens up on the roster (or one remains) and the Sox will then have no money to fill that hole.

 

Would you rather have a rotation of Sale, Quintana, Johnson, Danks, and Paulino/Rienzo/Surkamp with Matt Wieters catching, or Sale, Quintana, Johnson, Danks, Jimenez with Phegley/Flowers/Nieto catching?

 

[southsider2k5]

If you think the Sox will be in a position to contend for a playoff spot over the next 4 years, Jimenez is an absolute steal.

 

No he isn't. His cost is much higher than all but a small minority of other pitchers in baseball. A steal is Erik Johnson putting up Jimenez type numbers for 1/25th of the price.

 

Again, that is where your market inefficiency is. And it is one the White Sox are exploiting very well.

[witesoxfan]

So you've got 7 washing machines but you only have the demand for 5? And yet you still insist on paying extra maintenance costs for two dated machines which demand doesn't even necessitate?

 

Hmm, this all reminds me of the dilemma the Sox are facing with Dunn. They've already spent the money on Dunn, just like you have already bought 7 washing machines. Two of these machines are defective (presumably well out of warranty as they'd have both been replaced by any no-lemon guarantee) just like Dunn is a defective #4 hitter. Both the extra washing machines and Dunn are unnecessary for the future success of the business.

 

With your washing machines, rather than continue to pay into a sunk cost which you already know was an unnecessary investment in the first place, the proper choice would be to liquidate your 2 extra washing machines (take whatever you can get for them and stop paying into them via maintenance costs) and then when demand increases to where you need a 6th washing machine, you can then buy a new one under a new warranty which will cover you into the future. Similarly, the Sox should take whatever they can get out of their own sunk cost i.e. Dunn rather than continue to invest resources (playing time) into it. Dunn - thank you for the analogy wite - is basically the baseball version of a defective washing machine that was completely unnecessary in the first place.

 

You're not following. Of the 5 that are primarily used, you need to routinely maintain 2 of them. Thus, you have 2 others that work. All 7 are necessary. If you take one of them out, then suddenly you can't meet the demand.

 

If that demand were ever decreased, I'm sure you could sell one of those machines and recoup some of your cost. You are suggesting putting that machine on the side of the road.

Edited February 3, 2014 by witesoxfan

[Quin]

This is like watching a train continuously crash into itself, like some f***ed up type of snake.

[Marty34]

I've done the same. There's no harm in having Dunn on the roster - who is he legitimately holding back? De Aza? people want to string him up by his toenails too - so, if it's a sunk cost, and you can possibly recover some of that cost, you have a win. That is Finance 101.

 

 

 

How? Do you understand what marginal value is? There could easily be a large hole that opens up on the roster (or one remains) and the Sox will then have no money to fill that hole.

 

Would you rather have a rotation of Sale, Quintana, Johnson, Danks, and Paulino/Rienzo/Surkamp with Matt Wieters catching, or Sale, Quintana, Johnson, Danks, Jimenez with Phegley/Flowers/Nieto catching?

 

Not over the next 4 years. B

 

BTW, Weiters will be at the to of the market and the Sox do not play that game.

[ScottyDo]

This is like watching a train continuously crash into itself, like some f***ed up type of snake.

Yeah, I am not super proud to be a part of it. I'm out.

[royoung]

This is like watching a train continuously crash into itself, like some f***ed up type of snake.

 

Yes, the off-season sucks. And I say that even though I consider this off-season the best the White Sox have had in some time.

[BlackSox13]

Is there an ignore button?

Probably better to ignore the thread entirely since it doesn't seem to be about Dunn any more. This has turned into the same thread that was closed.

[The Ultimate Champion]

You're not following. Of the 5 that are primarily used, you need to routinely maintain 2 of them. Thus, you have 2 others that work. All 7 are necessary. If you take one of them out, then suddenly you can't meet the demand.

 

If that demand were ever decreased, I'm sure you could sell one of those machines and recoup some of your cost. You are suggesting putting that machine on the side of the road.

Ok I see now. Well then in this context Dunn would be the 8th washing machine & it's constantly regurgitating detergent back onto the customers. Of course, this defective 8th washing machine might be quite a big hit at a rave party where the idea *is* to be bombarded with soapiness and bubbles, so maybe you send both this 8th washing machine and Dunn to said nightclub and the machine can pump out bubbles while Dunn's donkey ass can hand out bracelets at the door.

Edited February 3, 2014 by The Ultimate Champion

[Kyyle23]

This is like watching a train continuously crash into itself, like some f***ed up type of snake.

 

[The Ultimate Champion]

This is like watching a train continuously crash into itself, like some f***ed up type of snake.

That sounds hot.

 

 

[The Ultimate Champion]

OMG that's so hot

[BlackSox13]

Nice! This thread and the closed thread are examples of an Ouroboros.

[Jake]

4 years or longer deals to FA pitchers are a fool's errand. Only partake if you need some wins right away. When you sign a veteran pitcher to an expensive, long-term deal, you just hope he's worth half the money after the first couple years.

[Vance Law]

Actually, yes there is. Click on a user's name, go to their profile, and click on the options drop down list. Click ignore user, and confirm on the following screen.

 

You will still see their quoted posts, but not the original.

 

aha. Thanks, wite