Sox still trying to trade Dunn?

[Marty34]

Any organization that listens to its fans on personnel is stupid.

 

Normally, I'd agree with you, but Dunn is toxic. The Sox dont want him, he doesn't want to be here, and the fans are ticked at both for this situation continuing.

[caulfield12]

You can argue DeAza's blocking Viciedo from getting everyday playing time, but it's not because of Dunn or Konerko.

 

You could also argue that if Dunn was traded/dumped they could get more value OR production out of DeAza as the primary LH DH, which is an argument that could go either way (but which has surely happened internally, with holding onto Dunn for half the season winning out).

 

Of course, 50% of the teams looking to acquire him would be looking at him as a CFer/LFer, so part of his value would be removed if he wasn't playing out in the field for 3 1/2 or 4 months and then went back into the OF for an NL team.

 

Leury Garcia's mostly being blocked by Alexei Ramirez and possibly Beckham. He needs to be playing everyday in Chicago or Charlotte if he's EVER going to amount to a credible enough offensive force to play everyday, most likely Charlotte...which is probably why they're holding onto Ramirez and Beckham for another 3-4 months, to make sure L.Garcia/Semien/C.Sanchez have developed enough to be exposed to everyday play the big leagues.

 

You could even make the same argument with Davidson, that they could hold him back 1-2-3-4 months and perhaps get something out of Keppinger/Gillaspie.

Edited January 31, 2014 by caulfield12

[rowand's rowdies]

Mark my words, we play him against RHP and to PH for the 1st half, he will be considered an impact bat add for a team for the playoff run, which remember there are more of now because of the 2 extra wild card spots. He will only be owed $6-7 million around the trade deadline, someone will give us a top 10 prospect for him then. Not a top 5 prospect, but a top 10 prospect, especially if we throw in some cash.

[Marty34]

The fans want wins. They will react more negatively to a s***tier record without Dunn than they will react to a better record with Dunn.

 

Unless Dunn represents a 20-win swing, no they won't. The casual fan isn't going to buy into this rebuild as long as he's still on the roster because his presence serves no purpose.

[southsider2k5]

Normally, I'd agree with you, but Dunn is toxic. The Sox dont want him, he doesn't want to be here, and the fans are ticked at both for this situation continuing.

 

The fun part is that three years ago all of the fans wanted Dunn, the Sox wanted Dunn, and Dunn wanted to be here...

 

If only Ozzie hadn't have driven off Jim Thome for Kotsay.

 

[caulfield12]

Normally, I'd agree with you, but Dunn is toxic. The Sox dont want him, he doesn't want to be here, and the fans are ticked at both for this situation continuing.

 

 

The same number of fans are buying season tickets to "say goodbye to Paul Konerko" as they're losing after 3 years of Dunn staying for a 4th.

 

Now if you could go back to the 2011/12 off-season and prove that Adam Dunn being a terrible disappointment was the MAIN reason for fans not renewing their season ticket packages, you might have something.

 

However, at that time, there were probably just as many fans optimistic about the White Sox getting a fresh start without Ozzie.

 

In this offseason, most fans could care less about Dunn at this point and are already looking forward to the future post Dunn/Konerko with Eaton, Davidson, Viciedo, Semien, Abreu and Avisail as the core.

 

 

FWIW, not even in 2007 did I completely give up on following any Sox team in my entire life...last year was the first time that has ever happened. Adam Dunn doesn't matter at all to how I think about 2014, and I would wager most rational fans who understand the baseball side of business understand it as well.

 

The White Sox just releasing him today would score them PR/brownie points for a couple of days and then it would blow over and there would be zero left-handed protection in the middle of the line-up, thus leading to more losses and making it harder to get fans out to the park than the presence of any one individual player...the other thing you have to keep in mind is 90% of the time players in their walk years have career years and re-establish some value on the trade market.

Edited January 31, 2014 by caulfield12

[GreenSox]

Leury Garcia's mostly being blocked by Alexei Ramirez and possibly Beckham. He needs to be playing everyday in Chicago or Charlotte if he's EVER going to amount to a credible enough offensive force to play everyday, most likely Charlotte...which is probably why they're holding onto Ramirez and Beckham for another 3-4 months, to make sure L.Garcia/Semien/C.Sanchez have developed enough to be exposed to everyday play the big leagues.

 

You could even make the same argument with Davidson, that they could hold him back 1-2-3-4 months and perhaps get something out of Keppinger/Gillaspie.

That may also be while the claimed Elmore. Given the current structure of 2 DHs on the roster and likely 2 3b, they'll need a bench player who can play middle infield and OF. If they want to give L Garcia legitimate work at the plate in AAA, which I Hope they do, Elmore comes in as super sub.

[TaylorStSox]

The ultimate champion hates Dunn as much as I hate Beckham. Solidarity.

[Eminor3rd]

Unless Dunn represents a 20-win swing, no they won't. The casual fan isn't going to buy into this rebuild as long as he's still on the roster because his presence serves no purpose.

 

I don't think his play needs to represent that much to make a difference. Start with whatever wins he adds on the field, then add the improved play from young players from being slightly more competitive, then add the implication and organizational message that exists that with Dunn the White Sox are "trying to win," or at least don't subtract the negative effect that would exist if they did dump him for nothing, considering that his skillset, in theory, represents everything the Sox need most on offense. You have to remember that the message the team feeds the players is much different than what it feeds the fans. Those guys are out there to win, regardless of whether or not they have a real shot. They need to be able to play like that if they're going to be successful. Indifference and frustration breeds nothing good.

 

It's not going to be a 20-win swing, but it will be significant. And that significant bump costs nothing -- again, we've already paid for him and he blocks no one but Paul Konerko. Right now, he brings nothing in return, and there's a small but realistic possibility he brings something at the deadline if he has a bounceback season.

 

The only defensible argument you can make to dump Dunn at all cost is "I hate Dunn and I want him to go." And that just isn't a good business decision.

[caulfield12]

They're (casual fans) certainly not out there thinking Dunn is going to be part of the rebuild, any more than they believe Ramirez/Konerko/DeAza will still be around.

 

 

Likewise, the casual White Sox fan doesn't believe DeAza's going to put up 20+ bombs in the first half and fetch another Garcia/Davidson/Eaton from another organization at the trade deadline.

 

DeAza is what he is....which is a younger version of Marlon Byrd at this point.

 

Nice to have on a playoff roster, but he's not going to get you a Top 100 prospect back.

 

 

In fact, you can make the same exact arguments about Gordon Beckham and Paul Konerko being on the roster.

 

0% believe Konerko's part of the future or part of another Sox playoff team, and MAYBE MAYBE MAYBE 5-10% still believe Gordon Beckham's part of the future as well. (I'll be charitable and bump it up to 20-25% of "casual" Sox fans still believe in Gordo.)

 

And there are quite a few, at least 40-50%, who don't believe that Viciedo is part of the future, not to mention Flowers/Phegley. Then you throw in Conor and Keppinger.

 

 

So you have Ramirez/DeAza/Viciedo/Konerko/Gillaspie/Keppinger/Beckham/Phegley/Flowers who all have a 50/50 or higher chance of being gone next year (along with Dunn). That's still a huge chunk of your roster, at least half of your position players aren't part of the future either, with the possible exception of Viciedo if he has a promising rebound season.

 

From that list...is there any one player who's going to excite fans enough to buy a ticket if the team's headed for another 90-100 loss season? I sincerely doubt it.

 

That only leaves Abreu/Davidson/Eaton/A.Garcia/Semien, and we know the odds of ALL of those guys making it as starters three years down the road are about 3-5% at best.

 

 

 

[TaylorStSox]

At absolute best, he is a 24th/25th man. That is his top. The kid is never going to hit enough to play everyday. Guys like that are a dime a dozen around baseball.

I'm sorry, but this just crazy. Guys with his tools aren't that common. He might not put it together, but he has serious ability.

[Jerksticks]

Doesn't everybody else sense that the casual fan as a mass loathes Dunn? The only way to really sell THIS year as a new direction is to get rid of Dunn at all costs. It's possible that the new talent excites the fans enough to tolerate one more year of s***. But if he's batting 3 or 4 and terrible people are gonna get mean fast. They're already gonna be mean from day 1, ST too.

 

Ultimately for the better of the team we could use the roster spot, especially since we may have a pretty fluid pipeline with AAA this year.

[caulfield12]

Doesn't everybody else sense that the casual fan as a mass loathes Dunn? The only way to really sell THIS year as a new direction is to get rid of Dunn at all costs. It's possible that the new talent excites the fans enough to tolerate one more year of s***. But if he's batting 3 or 4 and terrible people are gonna get mean fast. They're already gonna be mean from day 1, ST too.

 

Ultimately for the better of the team we could use the roster spot, especially since we may have a pretty fluid pipeline with AAA this year.

 

 

WHO?

 

Do you really believe Gillaspie or DeAza are part of the future?

 

If you showed up as a fan and saw Alejandro's name in the DH slot, would that get you more excited?

 

Wilkins or McDade or Dan Black?

 

(Besides, if you're going to pick a player as public enemy #2 and emblematic of the team's failures last year, DeAza is right up there with Dunn, is he not? I saw him defended (DeAza) constantly with the OPS argument or WAR, but doesn't that also supports Dunn as being in the top 25-33% of the roster.)

Edited January 31, 2014 by caulfield12

[Reddy]

Unless Dunn represents a 20-win swing, no they won't. The casual fan isn't going to buy into this rebuild as long as he's still on the roster because his presence serves no purpose.

the casual fan doesnt know what a rebuild is.

 

Dunn on the roster makes no difference

[caulfield12]

Plus casual fans only come out to games when the weather's nice and the Sox are DOMINANT/bandwagon effect is in play.

 

That wasn't even the case in 2012.

 

 

 

And whether you're a stock broker, house flipper or MLB GM, going in the same direction as "mass/popular" opinion is usually the losing strategy...98 times out of 100.

 

For most of his Sox career, fans disliked Alex Rios, but KW/Hahn didn't give up on him or eat his contract.

Edited January 31, 2014 by caulfield12

[BlackSox13]

I am hoping that the Sox make him a QO at the end of the year and he declines. The Sox get a solid prospect for him and dont have a power vaccum from the LH side of the plate this year.

 

I understand that the scenario is unlikely, but its probably not impossible that Dunn will be looking for multiple years instead of one. I could see a team give him a 3/$16-18M next winter. The Twins for instance are going to be starved for power, have a hole at DH and their 1st pick will (most likely) be protected.

 

Anyway, that is what I hope.

Yeah, I'm not really sure how this would work out. Dunn doesn't seem happy in Chicago, the fans arent happy with Dunn and the Sox seem like they would prefer to trade him, so he could refuse a qualifying offer to try and get a multi-year deal or a one year offer to try and rebuild his value. Some team out there might take a chance depending on how he hits this year.

 

I think best case scenario is hope he hits well enough to be traded come June/July , wish him well and move on.

[Balta1701]

Yeah, I'm not really sure how this would work out. Dunn doesn't seem happy in Chicago, the fans arent happy with Dunn and the Sox seem like they would prefer to trade him, so he could refuse a qualifying offer to try and get a multi-year deal or a one year offer to try and rebuild his value. Some team out there might take a chance depending on how he hits this year.

 

I think best case scenario is hope he hits well enough to be traded come June/July , wish him well and move on.

Would you trade a 2nd round pick for Adam Dunn at the end of next year? I sure as hell wouldnt.

[Jerksticks]

WHO?

 

Do you really believe Gillaspie or DeAza are part of the future?

 

If you showed up as a fan and saw Alejandro's name in the DH slot, would that get you more excited?

 

Wilkins or McDade or Dan Black?

 

(Besides, if you're going to pick a player as public enemy #2 and emblematic of the team's failures last year, DeAza is right up there with Dunn, is he not? I saw him defended (DeAza) constantly with the OPS argument or WAR, but doesn't that also supports Dunn as being in the top 25-33% of the roster.)

 

Who? Yea McDade.

 

Semien, Davidson, Jordanx, Mitchell?, Rienzo, E Johnson, L Garcia, the 3 Catchers, Gillaspie, Elmore, bullpen arms.

 

I feel like all those guys could spend time in both AAA and the majors this year.

We're probably gonna suck remember!

 

[BlackSox13]

Would you trade a 2nd round pick for Adam Dunn at the end of next year? I sure as hell wouldnt.

Nope, and another reason why best case scenario is to hope he hits well enough be traded come June/July.

[brian310]

De Aza wouldn't DH. Viciedo would get DH at bats against righties and Paulie would against lefties

[Balta1701]

De Aza wouldn't DH. Viciedo would get DH at bats against righties and Paulie would against lefties

Wow that sounds bad

[southsider2k5]

Unless Dunn represents a 20-win swing, no they won't. The casual fan isn't going to buy into this rebuild as long as he's still on the roster because his presence serves no purpose.

 

A rebuild involves getting the most for your assets. Releasing Dunn doesn't do that.

[Jerksticks]

A rebuild involves getting the most for your assets. Releasing Dunn doesn't do that.

Hope and prayer for tradable numbers. Is that likely the way this plays out? Seems smart

[Vance Law]

Doesn't everybody else sense that the casual fan as a mass loathes Dunn? The only way to really sell THIS year as a new direction is to get rid of Dunn at all costs. It's possible that the new talent excites the fans enough to tolerate one more year of s***. But if he's batting 3 or 4 and terrible people are gonna get mean fast. They're already gonna be mean from day 1, ST too.

 

Ultimately for the better of the team we could use the roster spot, especially since we may have a pretty fluid pipeline with AAA this year.

 

I'm glad that the person who is the GM does not think this way.

[LittleHurt05]

Unless Dunn represents a 20-win swing, no they won't. The casual fan isn't going to buy into this rebuild as long as he's still on the roster because his presence serves no purpose.

 

LOL. Casual fans don't buy into rebuilds at all. That's why they are "casual" fans.