2014-2015 NCAA football thread

[gatnom]

Congrats to IU who played great. Mizzou shot themselves in the foot a thousand times. And the oline is somehow a problem.

 

Seriously, AJ ricker took an experienced oline that was the strength of the team and ruined it in four games

 

I'll take him back if you don't want him. His replacement has somehow done the same thing at Illinois.

 

 

[gatnom]

So true. I don't want to reopen the whole "Zook should not have been fired debate," but ironically TB seems to be just as bad (if not worse) at several of the many things Zook himself was particularly bad at, two-point strategy being one prime example.

 

His main problem has been getting quality coaches to come to Illinois. If Beckman can't win 6 games in this B1G, he definitely deserves to be fired.

 

 

[LittleHurt05]

Never hire a football coach from Illinois.

 

Illinois's former defensive coordinator has the same job at UNC, who just happened to give up the most points in school history.

[RockRaines]

Illinois's former defensive coordinator has the same job at UNC, who just happened to give up the most points in school history.

There will be at least 2 HC jobs available in the Big Ten this offseason IMO.

[Buehrle>Wood]

Illinois's former defensive coordinator has the same job at UNC, who just happened to give up the most points in school history.

Can we please please please get him back then? Dude was incredible here.

[IlliniKrush]

Illinois's former defensive coordinator has the same job at UNC, who just happened to give up the most points in school history.

 

 

Can we please please please get him back then? Dude was incredible here.

Yeah, VK was incredible, way to cherry pick one game.

[GGajewski18]

I honestly loved having Zook as HC for Illinois...and VK was incredible, the defenses under him were awesome.

[LittleHurt05]

Yeah, VK was incredible, way to cherry pick one game.

 

I honestly don't remember which coordinator was when or what he did, just saw someone mention it on Twitter. Either way, there's yet another good reason why Zook should have never been fired.

[bigruss]

I honestly don't remember which coordinator was when or what he did, just saw someone mention it on Twitter. Either way, there's yet another good reason why Zook should have never been fired.

What's up with all the Zook love? He ruined this program, he built nothing sustainable.

 

VK was incredible and I realllllly wish that he stayed, but new coach = new staff usually. I still don't think Beckham is the long term answer (never was), but if he does make it to a bowl game he'll get another year. I DO think he is putting the program in a better situation than what Zook left, and whomever replaces Beckman will have an easier job than he did.

[whitesoxfan99]

I honestly don't remember which coordinator was when or what he did, just saw someone mention it on Twitter. Either way, there's yet another good reason why Zook should have never been fired.

 

Wrong, a competent AD fires Zook in 2009 and Zook's recruiting had tailed off to the point that his 2010 and 2011 classes were absolutely horrible (there was only a handful of above average Big 10 players in those two classes combined) so I doubt he was going to be sustaining even 6-6 type seasons. The problem wasn't firing Zook but hiring Tim Beckman. And if Zook had been properly fired in 2009 and the new coach inherits a roster with a ton of talent (those 6-6 teams underachieved badly in typical Ron Zook fashion) they would have been able to get off to a great start and build a lot of momentum.

[LittleHurt05]

What's up with all the Zook love? He ruined this program, he built nothing sustainable.

 

VK was incredible and I realllllly wish that he stayed, but new coach = new staff usually. I still don't think Beckham is the long term answer (never was), but if he does make it to a bowl game he'll get another year. I DO think he is putting the program in a better situation than what Zook left, and whomever replaces Beckman will have an easier job than he did.

 

Yes, Ron Zook ruined the mighty Illinois football program that was going through a glorious stretch of multiple Big Ten titles and bowl games year after year.

[Jenksismyhero]

Wrong, a competent AD fires Zook in 2009 and Zook's recruiting had tailed off to the point that his 2010 and 2011 classes were absolutely horrible (there was only a handful of above average Big 10 players in those two classes combined) so I doubt he was going to be sustaining even 6-6 type seasons. The problem wasn't firing Zook but hiring Tim Beckman. And if Zook had been properly fired in 2009 and the new coach inherits a roster with a ton of talent (those 6-6 teams underachieved badly in typical Ron Zook fashion) they would have been able to get off to a great start and build a lot of momentum.

 

Regardless of the quality of the class, Zook found NFL caliber players routinely. They just didn't have the coaching to really win at the college level. I agree with you though that he needed to be fired much earlier to save the program 5-6 years of rebuilding. Guenther did the same thing with Weber, so let's all be glad he's gone.

 

I see this team winning 5, maybe 6 games at most. Beckman gets fired and Cubit is offered the HC job and he takes it. Another 2 years of 4-6 win seasons and we're back to having the same conversation about whether Cubit is good enough for year 3 and 4.

 

[Jenksismyhero]

Yes, Ron Zook ruined the mighty Illinois football program that was going through a glorious stretch of multiple Big Ten titles and bowl games year after year.

 

True, but the talent was there to actually do that and become a decent program in the Big Ten. Instead he ruined it much like Turner did.

[Buehrle>Wood]

Beckman inherited Buchanan, Pocic, Scheelhaase, Spence, Young, Ferguson,Hugh Thorton, Terry Hawthorne, Johnathan Brown, the current oline, to name a few. Not great but it wasn't completely rid of nice talent. I was fine with Zook being gone but Beckman has been the problem.

Edited September 22, 2014 by Buehrle>Wood

[gatnom]

VK also had a lot of NFL players on those defenses. He's a good coordinator, but it helps when you have the amount of talent he did.

 

 

[IlliniKrush]

I honestly don't remember which coordinator was when or what he did, just saw someone mention it on Twitter. Either way, there's yet another good reason why Zook should have never been fired.

No. Zook for sure had to go. He was a terrible coach, his recruiting took a huge drop off, and the program collapsed at the end. As mentioned, they hung on to him too long. He also had a ton of guys leave the program, which left the team with zero depth.

 

Regardless of what Beckman has done, he left the program in bad shape for the next head coach (yes he had some talent senior year but after that, no depth, and we saw the results last year).

 

This isn't a "since the guy who took over is possibly worse, I guess it says old guy should have never been fired."

 

Zook didn't have the program going in the right direction. Even if Beckman doesn't either, it just means find the guy who can.

 

If Beckman is gone after this year, whoever takes over will have an easier time building than when Beckman came in. I just don't know who would come here.

 

Regardless of the quality of the class, Zook found NFL caliber players routinely. They just didn't have the coaching to really win at the college level. I agree with you though that he needed to be fired much earlier to save the program 5-6 years of rebuilding. Guenther did the same thing with Weber, so let's all be glad he's gone.

 

I see this team winning 5, maybe 6 games at most. Beckman gets fired and Cubit is offered the HC job and he takes it. Another 2 years of 4-6 win seasons and we're back to having the same conversation about whether Cubit is good enough for year 3 and 4.

Routinely early on, sure, but not consistently.

 

I don't think Cubit is offered the HC job but who knows.

[gatnom]

Regardless of the quality of the class, Zook found NFL caliber players routinely. They just didn't have the coaching to really win at the college level. I agree with you though that he needed to be fired much earlier to save the program 5-6 years of rebuilding. Guenther did the same thing with Weber, so let's all be glad he's gone.

 

I see this team winning 5, maybe 6 games at most. Beckman gets fired and Cubit is offered the HC job and he takes it. Another 2 years of 4-6 win seasons and we're back to having the same conversation about whether Cubit is good enough for year 3 and 4.

 

No way does Bill Cubit get offered the job. I would want MT fired immediately if that happens.

 

 

[whitesoxfan99]

Beckman inherited Buchanan, Pocic, Scheelhaase, Spence, Young, Ferguson,Hugh Thorton, Terry Hawthorne, Johnathan Brown, the current oline, to name a few. Not great but it wasn't completely rid of nice talent. I was fine with Zook being gone but Beckman has been the problem.

 

There was talent in year 1 for Beckman (mostly on defense) based on Zook's pre-2010 recruiting classes. The fact the coaching on that side of the ball was so bad that year was a huge red flag.

[Soxfest]

Beckman is not the answer and Tim Banks is worst DC the school has ever had.

[Jenksismyhero]

No. Zook for sure had to go. He was a terrible coach, his recruiting took a huge drop off, and the program collapsed at the end. As mentioned, they hung on to him too long. He also had a ton of guys leave the program, which left the team with zero depth.

 

Regardless of what Beckman has done, he left the program in bad shape for the next head coach (yes he had some talent senior year but after that, no depth, and we saw the results last year).

 

This isn't a "since the guy who took over is possibly worse, I guess it says old guy should have never been fired."

 

Zook didn't have the program going in the right direction. Even if Beckman doesn't either, it just means find the guy who can.

 

If Beckman is gone after this year, whoever takes over will have an easier time building than when Beckman came in. I just don't know who would come here.

 

 

Routinely early on, sure, but not consistently.

 

I don't think Cubit is offered the HC job but who knows.

 

Not really true. His teams won 2 bowl games in back to back years, which I don't think Illinois has ever done before.

 

I think people need to be a little more realistic about Zook. He was far from good but he wasn't terrible, he did a lot of nice things, but ultimately his ceiling was too low for the Big Ten. He needed to be removed, earlier than he was, but he was better than a lot of other Illinois coaches, including Beckman.

 

And why not Cubit? He did pretty good at Western Michigan and the offense turnaround was amazing last year. It's not as good this year, but he's got a lot of young transfer talent in key positions, on top of some injuries. He's not a home run hire, but people are dreaming if you think a great coach is coming to Illinois in down years (if ever).

[illinilaw08]

Not really true. His teams won 2 bowl games in back to back years, which I don't think Illinois has ever done before.

 

I think people need to be a little more realistic about Zook. He was far from good but he wasn't terrible, he did a lot of nice things, but ultimately his ceiling was too low for the Big Ten. He needed to be removed, earlier than he was, but he was better than a lot of other Illinois coaches, including Beckman.

 

And why not Cubit? He did pretty good at Western Michigan and the offense turnaround was amazing last year. It's not as good this year, but he's got a lot of young transfer talent in key positions, on top of some injuries. He's not a home run hire, but people are dreaming if you think a great coach is coming to Illinois in down years (if ever).

 

Zook didn't coach the bowl game against UCLA - he was fired after that team finished the season 0-6. They absolutely collapsed. Zook wasn't the answer. If the product from the first 4 games this year bleeds over to the last 8, Beckman isn't the answer either.

 

Unless you are putting the blame for the offense's early struggles this year entirely on Beckman, I don't see how anything that Cubit has done thus far this year merits giving him HC consideration.

 

EDIT: Best case scenario for a coaching search this offseason is that a qualified candidate looks at Lunt and sees an opportunity to step into a B1G job with a potential star QB for his first two years and sees a chance to, at the very least, score a lot of points right away.

Edited September 22, 2014 by illinilaw08

[whitesoxfan99]

Not really true. His teams won 2 bowl games in back to back years, which I don't think Illinois has ever done before.

 

I think people need to be a little more realistic about Zook. He was far from good but he wasn't terrible, he did a lot of nice things, but ultimately his ceiling was too low for the Big Ten. He needed to be removed, earlier than he was, but he was better than a lot of other Illinois coaches, including Beckman.

 

And why not Cubit? He did pretty good at Western Michigan and the offense turnaround was amazing last year. It's not as good this year, but he's got a lot of young transfer talent in key positions, on top of some injuries. He's not a home run hire, but people are dreaming if you think a great coach is coming to Illinois in down years (if ever).

 

They aren't going to be able to hire a big name or someone who is a known quantity (well unless they pay just an insane amount of money and that isn't going to happen at Illinois) but that doesn't mean you can't find a great coach. They are out there, it is just a lot harder to find them at Illinois then it is at Alabama, OSU, etc.

[bigruss]

Not really true. His teams won 2 bowl games in back to back years, which I don't think Illinois has ever done before.

 

I think people need to be a little more realistic about Zook. He was far from good but he wasn't terrible, he did a lot of nice things, but ultimately his ceiling was too low for the Big Ten. He needed to be removed, earlier than he was, but he was better than a lot of other Illinois coaches, including Beckman.

 

And why not Cubit? He did pretty good at Western Michigan and the offense turnaround was amazing last year. It's not as good this year, but he's got a lot of young transfer talent in key positions, on top of some injuries. He's not a home run hire, but people are dreaming if you think a great coach is coming to Illinois in down years (if ever).

Zook's recruiting was terrible in his last few years, he still got some impact guys but he had zero balance in his classes and therefore we had HUGE holes all over the team. That's why he left this program in a terrible state, and a big reason why firing him in 2009 was so crucial (because the boat was sinking fast). With VK, I'm sure 2012 wouldn't have been as bad but the writing was on the wall, this program was ready to collapse. Unfortunately, TB is not showing anything really to show a solid turnaround (he's done a few good things: better class balance, stabilized player turnover, and he's got some good players in the 2015 class). And that may pay off, but we needed to see more by now (better recruiting/better coaching, he really should've gotten rid of Banks last year but who knows the quality of DC they could get).

 

Cubit fell off at WMU as well, I wouldn't trust him as HC.

[LittleHurt05]

Not really true. His teams won 2 bowl games in back to back years, which I don't think Illinois has ever done before.

 

I think people need to be a little more realistic about Zook. He was far from good but he wasn't terrible, he did a lot of nice things, but ultimately his ceiling was too low for the Big Ten. He needed to be removed, earlier than he was, but he was better than a lot of other Illinois coaches, including Beckman.

 

And why not Cubit? He did pretty good at Western Michigan and the offense turnaround was amazing last year. It's not as good this year, but he's got a lot of young transfer talent in key positions, on top of some injuries. He's not a home run hire, but people are dreaming if you think a great coach is coming to Illinois in down years (if ever).

 

First back-to-back bowl appearances since 1991-1992, yet that earned him a pink slip. Talk about unrealistic expectations.

[IlliniKrush]

Not really true. His teams won 2 bowl games in back to back years, which I don't think Illinois has ever done before.

 

I think people need to be a little more realistic about Zook. He was far from good but he wasn't terrible, he did a lot of nice things, but ultimately his ceiling was too low for the Big Ten. He needed to be removed, earlier than he was, but he was better than a lot of other Illinois coaches, including Beckman.

 

And why not Cubit? He did pretty good at Western Michigan and the offense turnaround was amazing last year. It's not as good this year, but he's got a lot of young transfer talent in key positions, on top of some injuries. He's not a home run hire, but people are dreaming if you think a great coach is coming to Illinois in down years (if ever).

Illinilaw covered it pretty well.

 

Simply tossing out "2 bowls wins" without context is shortsighted. Finished the year 0-6 with an absolute collapse at the end, no other way to put it. Played in a joke of a bowl game and won, but he wasn't coaching as mentioned.

 

Zook was building a football academy, not a football program that could sustain any sort of success. His recruiting fell off, and he had a ton of guys drop off the team for one reason or another (something Beckman hasn't had).

 

If Beckman isn't the answer that's fine, but Zook needed to go. Zook could recruit (until the last couple years), but he wasn't a good coach. For as much as people make fun of Beckman, I think they are forgetting some of Zook's issues with forgetting the score, going for 2, clock management, etc.