Harry Chappas Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jan 22, 2015 -> 11:54 AM) Still, he is the head coach and the buck stops with him. Suspend him for the Super Bowl. The Patriots will never have that problem again. Did the NFL ever prove that Sean Payton and Mickey Loomis knew about the bounty program? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 I don't think it mattered this game, but if it is no big deal, why have any standard? If you want to play with a flat ball, let them play with a flat ball. If you want it inflated to the point where it may pop, that would be fine also. There is a reason these balls were deflated below league standards, and it wasn't because whoever thought to do so didn't think it really mattered. The Patriots didn't play by the rules. Someone needs to be punished. Draft picks might be too much. I like the head coach suspended for the SB idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 (edited) QUOTE (Harry Chappas @ Jan 22, 2015 -> 01:46 PM) Did the NFL ever prove that Sean Payton and Mickey Loomis knew about the bounty program? Common sense will tell you they knew about it. The NFL isn't a court of law. The burden of proof isn't nearly as high. But that is a case where the buck stopped where it was supposed to stop as well. Even if they didn't know, they should have and were held responsible. Edited January 22, 2015 by Dick Allen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jan 22, 2015 -> 11:49 AM) I don't think it mattered this game, but if it is no big deal, why have any standard? If you want to play with a flat ball, let them play with a flat ball. If you want it inflated to the point where it may pop, that would be fine also. There is a reason these balls were deflated below league standards, and it wasn't because whoever thought to do so didn't think it really mattered. The Patriots didn't play by the rules. Someone needs to be punished. Draft picks might be too much. I like the head coach suspended for the SB idea. Is someone going to get suspended in baseball for their use of pine tar? No, not until they are absurdly blatant like Pineda. Ejected from a game, sure, warned, certainly. Fined, possibly. This is going to end in a Pats fine and the story dropped. If the opposite happened (Colts shredded Pats and Beli complained about the balls), people would be saying the Pats are a bunch of whining babies and that would be the story line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jan 22, 2015 -> 02:52 PM) Is someone going to get suspended in baseball for their use of pine tar? No, not until they are absurdly blatant like Pineda. Ejected from a game, sure, warned, certainly. Fined, possibly. This is going to end in a Pats fine and the story dropped. If the opposite happened (Colts shredded Pats and Beli complained about the balls), people would be saying the Pats are a bunch of whining babies and that would be the story line. Yes, but the Patriots have cheated before. Bellichek is known by a lot of people as Bellicheat. Mark Brunell has been quoted as saying a little air out of the ball can make a big difference. Again, I don't think it mattered this game, but who knows if it has in the past and they were busted. Again. Troy Aikman thinks the penalty should be more severe than Bounty gate. I think that is extreme, but if their coach has to sit out the Super Bowl, the Patriots may finally get the message they are not above the rules. Fining them does no good. That is money they will never need anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jan 22, 2015 -> 02:52 PM) Is someone going to get suspended in baseball for their use of pine tar? No, not until they are absurdly blatant like Pineda. Ejected from a game, sure, warned, certainly. Fined, possibly. This is going to end in a Pats fine and the story dropped. If the opposite happened (Colts shredded Pats and Beli complained about the balls), people would be saying the Pats are a bunch of whining babies and that would be the story line. But the thing is, they were blatant Jason. And this is the second time in Belichecks time that they have been busted doing stupid s*** like this. Using your Pineda example, let's pretend he uses something else next time. Something a little easier to hide like Vaseline. If he gets busted again because the other team suspects something fishy, don't you expect the penalty to be slightly more severe because he was busted again? In the end its stupid because Pineda has wicked stuff(or had wicked stuff) so he doesn't really need the help, but he still did it and got caught twice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Jan 22, 2015 -> 01:04 PM) But the thing is, they were blatant Jason. And this is the second time in Belichecks time that they have been busted doing stupid s*** like this. Using your Pineda example, let's pretend he uses something else next time. Something a little easier to hide like Vaseline. If he gets busted again because the other team suspects something fishy, don't you expect the penalty to be slightly more severe because he was busted again? In the end its stupid because Pineda has wicked stuff(or had wicked stuff) so he doesn't really need the help, but he still did it and got caught twice. In this case, it has nothing to do with Beli (unless he endorsed it). Sure it happened under his watch, but did the Yanks manager get suspended / fined because of what the player did? Heck no. Bountygate had such serious fines and punishment because of the amount of people involved and the fact that it had direct impacts on the overall safety of the league. If the league didn't come down hard on bountygate, every player safety advocate and attorney out there would have been hammering them with potential suits with the league and it would just be another thing the league looked the other direction related to safety. This had zero impact on the safety and in reality zero impact on the results. And while one or two players might have said the balls impact things, I've heard a heck of a lot more people saying its a bunch of nothing. 2nd half Pats were better than 1st half with normal balls (in worse conditions). I understand if they did something horrific and I can see a fine or whatever but this was likely Brady and even than I still don't care. If it happened against the Bears I wouldn't care either. Its a bunch of horses***. Would people rather have Beli suspended for the superbowl or Brady suspended for it, so the integrity of the superbowl can be ruined? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 To me, it's like corking a bat. It doesn't give you as much as an advantage as you hope for, there will be concrete evidence of your mistake, and it's overall not the biggest deal in the world. Slap him on the wrist and move on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jan 22, 2015 -> 03:09 PM) In this case, it has nothing to do with Beli (unless he endorsed it). Sure it happened under his watch, but did the Yanks manager get suspended / fined because of what the player did? Heck no. Bountygate had such serious fines and punishment because of the amount of people involved and the fact that it had direct impacts on the overall safety of the league. If the league didn't come down hard on bountygate, every player safety advocate and attorney out there would have been hammering them with potential suits with the league and it would just be another thing the league looked the other direction related to safety. This had zero impact on the safety and in reality zero impact on the results. And while one or two players might have said the balls impact things, I've heard a heck of a lot more people saying its a bunch of nothing. 2nd half Pats were better than 1st half with normal balls (in worse conditions). I understand if they did something horrific and I can see a fine or whatever but this was likely Brady and even than I still don't care. If it happened against the Bears I wouldn't care either. Its a bunch of horses***. Would people rather have Beli suspended for the superbowl or Brady suspended for it, so the integrity of the superbowl can be ruined? I'm not saying he should be suspended for the Super Bowl, in fact I'm unsure about what the penalty should be. I'm arguing with you that it's completely overblown and horses***. There are just as many people that are saying its no big deal as there are that are outraged about it. You provided the Pineda example so I went with it. Obviously there isn't a exact comparison between these sports. The thing about this is that a ballboy isn't going to go out and do this on his own. Someone instructed this. We both know that Belicheck may not have called this kid into his office and directed him to do it, but it got filtered down to this kid or these kids from the top. It will not be proven, someone will take the fall for it and it most likely will not be Belicheck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 (edited) QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Jan 22, 2015 -> 03:16 PM) I'm not saying he should be suspended for the Super Bowl, in fact I'm unsure about what the penalty should be. I'm arguing with you that it's completely overblown and horses***. There are just as many people that are saying its no big deal as there are that are outraged about it. You provided the Pineda example so I went with it. Obviously there isn't a exact comparison between these sports. The thing about this is that a ballboy isn't going to go out and do this on his own. Someone instructed this. We both know that Belicheck may not have called this kid into his office and directed him to do it, but it got filtered down to this kid or these kids from the top. It will not be proven, someone will take the fall for it and it most likely will not be Belicheck. Brunell used a basketball as an example. A slightly deflated, yet playable ball may be fairly easy for someone to palm. Fill it all the way up, and it is not. It could make a difference in wet weather. I don't think the result of the game would have been changed, but if the game was close, perhaps it would have. A penalty is definitely in order. Edited January 22, 2015 by Dick Allen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Jan 22, 2015 -> 01:16 PM) I'm not saying he should be suspended for the Super Bowl, in fact I'm unsure about what the penalty should be. I'm arguing with you that it's completely overblown and horses***. There are just as many people that are saying its no big deal as there are that are outraged about it. You provided the Pineda example so I went with it. Obviously there isn't a exact comparison between these sports. The thing about this is that a ballboy isn't going to go out and do this on his own. Someone instructed this. We both know that Belicheck may not have called this kid into his office and directed him to do it, but it got filtered down to this kid or these kids from the top. It will not be proven, someone will take the fall for it and it most likely will not be Belicheck. Fairly certain Beli had nothing to do with this. Someone probably wanted it done but I don't think Beli ever told anyone to do that. He was pretty damn adamant at his press conference and made a quite a few point blank statements that he challenged the media and investigators on. I am sure this is similar to what Brad Johnson did where Brady tells the ball boy, try and get my balls a little deflated. If it was widespread, there would be enough ex-players, etc, who would come out and say something. And there are far more analyst who were players saying this is nothing than those saying it is something. In fact, Colts players are lining up saying its nothing either (probably cause they realize they look like a bunch of babies complaining about something so stupid). It is media pundits that are the main people making this a big deal and of the ex-players saying anything it is more those saying well, its 2nd time with Pats so the NFL has to do something not to look week (again...very few have said this has any impact on the game and the vast majority seem to consider it a non-story). This is more ESPN and the rest of the media having something to create ratings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 I don't know why you find Belicheck so believable, but ok Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 "In my entire coaching career, I've never seen another team's practice film prior to playing that team," he said. "I have never authorized, or heard of, or even seen in any way, shape, or form any other team's walkthrough. We don't even film our own. We don't even want to see ourselves do anything, that's the pace that it's at. Regardless, I've never been a part of that." Feb 17 2008 "In my entire coaching career, I have never talked to any player or staff member about football air pressure," he said. "The footballs are approved by the league and officials pregame, and we play with what's out there. That's the only way that I have ever thought about that." Jan 22 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shipps Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 OMG you guys are killing me talking about these deflated balls. I am deleting all your comments in here. Any mention of Brady and shriveled balls are being deleted! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Jan 22, 2015 -> 01:31 PM) "In my entire coaching career, I've never seen another team's practice film prior to playing that team," he said. "I have never authorized, or heard of, or even seen in any way, shape, or form any other team's walkthrough. We don't even film our own. We don't even want to see ourselves do anything, that's the pace that it's at. Regardless, I've never been a part of that." Feb 17 2008 "In my entire coaching career, I have never talked to any player or staff member about football air pressure," he said. "The footballs are approved by the league and officials pregame, and we play with what's out there. That's the only way that I have ever thought about that." Jan 22 2015 IIRC, despite comments from certain people saying they filmed practice, no evidence was ever actually discovered that the Pats filmed a practice. The spygate and the hefty fines were tied to the Pats taking film during the games. The Boston Herald ultimately retracted its initial report / story that indicated they had filmed the Rams walkthrough during the superbowl, etc. In fact, I think the actual accounts were from people who were granted indemnity that they never did film the walkthrough / practice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 The NFL has yet to contact Tom Brady. Quite the investigation so far Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shipps Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 I asked this in catch-all but I dont want to wait on an answer. Did anyone listen to the transition of Spieg's and Bernstein today on the Score? Reading comments on Speig's FB page he really gave it to Bernstein but no one says what happened. I am curious to know what went down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 QUOTE (shipps @ Jan 22, 2015 -> 04:27 PM) I asked this in catch-all but I dont want to wait on an answer. Did anyone listen to the transition of Spieg's and Bernstein today on the Score? Reading comments on Speig's FB page he really gave it to Bernstein but no one says what happened. I am curious to know what went down. I heard it, you can download it on their podcast on the CBS website. A few weeks ago in crosstalk all of them were discussing Brandon Marshall and whether the Bears would keep him or not. Mannelly started to say he thought the Bears would keep him but Bernstein interrupted him and told him "agree with me and you will look smarter in a few months." Mannelly kind of stopped and said "well ok then" but you could tell Spiegel didn't like it. Today Spiegel blasted him for walking back his strong conviction that the Bears won't have him on the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shipps Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Jan 22, 2015 -> 05:16 PM) I heard it, you can download it on their podcast on the CBS website. A few weeks ago in crosstalk all of them were discussing Brandon Marshall and whether the Bears would keep him or not. Mannelly started to say he thought the Bears would keep him but Bernstein interrupted him and told him "agree with me and you will look smarter in a few months." Mannelly kind of stopped and said "well ok then" but you could tell Spiegel didn't like it. Today Spiegel blasted him for walking back his strong conviction that the Bears won't have him on the team. OOOHHHH. Bernstein can really be a jagoff sometimes. Like I have said before lately he has been so overwhelmingly annoying with this idea that he is the one who holds all knowledge in Chicago sports. He pretends to have these excellent inside sources that feed him this information and he goes all in with it like its absolute gold and then later when it turns out different you hear nothing from him. I am starting to hate the man. Like a lot, and I have listened to their show for years. Thanks Kyle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zenryan Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Jan 22, 2015 -> 05:06 PM) The NFL has yet to contact Tom Brady. Quite the investigation so far Ian Rapoport said that would make sense though. Brady would be one of the last people the league talks to in the investigation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 QUOTE (zenryan @ Jan 22, 2015 -> 05:29 PM) Ian Rapoport said that would make sense though. Brady would be one of the last people the league talks to in the investigation. That's silly IMO. The QB would be one of the top people to gain an advantage from deflated balls. (lol) Why not ask him what he knows, especially a veteran like Brady? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 Ugh, just skipping through this crap and can't find it anywhere here: http://chicago.cbslocal.com/audio/the-spie...-mannelly-show/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Jimmy0 Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 QUOTE (bmags @ Jan 22, 2015 -> 06:07 PM) Ugh, just skipping through this crap and can't find it anywhere here: http://chicago.cbslocal.com/audio/the-spie...-mannelly-show/ It's under the Boers and Bernstein part: http://chicago.cbslocal.com/audio/boers-and-bernstein-show/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 Pretty good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 It's interesting how Bernstein reacts in situations with conflict when he can't control it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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