2014-2015 NFL Football thread

[Jenksismyhero]

This is the entire point. A marginal to bad QB like McCown could succeed in the Bears offense because he simply didnt make horrible decisions. When in doubt hed throw the ball in a place where at worst it was an incomplete pass and sometimes his ultra talented WR's would bail him out.

 

Im pretty sure that no one thinks McCown can throw better than Cutler or has the same talent as Cutler.

 

(edit)

 

And I hope Im wrong. Cutler can easily fix himself if he wants. First he needs to work on his footwork. Second he needs to make better decisions.

 

Those arent impossible, its just frustrating that he doesnt seem to ever take that leap. Because if he does, he could easily be a top 5 qb.

 

I say again. Nope. It's year 6. We've been saying this every year, and i'm sure Denver fans were saying the same thing. If he hasn't changed by now, he's not going to.

[Jenksismyhero]

McCown looks pretty lost in TB, to be fair. Just threw the ball up for grabs a few times last week and got burned. Did it last year and luckily did not get burned much.

 

1) atrocious o-line there

 

2) little to no weapons

 

3) lovie smith

 

Also, while he looked terrible for 3 quarters, he looked much better in the 4th.

 

 

[Jake]

I was all for keeping McCown and investing a high draft pick in a QB. I don't expect McCown, if he was on the Bears, to lead the league in damn near every advanced metric like last year, but I'd expect remarkably close if not superior results in terms of W-L compared to Cutler. Considering the cost of keeping Cutler, that was my preference. IMO, you only want QBs off their rookie contract if they are: a. great or b. journeyman/system guy/placeholder for rookie contract player

[Harry Chappas]

Cutler is a more talented QB than McCown there is no question there

 

McCown can efficiently use a system and the coaches can coach him up to be successful, if they are good coaches

 

I just really have not seen Cutler grow since he has been here. I have seen him get a boatload of talent placed around him including one of the best O Line coaches in the game which has led to increased numbers but the results for the team have not changed.

[illinilaw08]

1) atrocious o-line there

 

2) little to no weapons

 

3) lovie smith

 

Also, while he looked terrible for 3 quarters, he looked much better in the 4th.

 

Did you just describe Cutler's first 4 years in Chicago?

 

Jay is an objectively better QB than McCown. In the history of the NFL, has there ever been a great "system" QB? A guy that flopped everywhere else who became great simply because the coach was a QB whisperer?

 

The simple fact is that, flaws and all (and those have been discussed ad nauseum), Jay Cutler provides the Bears with the best opportunity to win now.

[Steve9347]

BILLLLLLLLLLLSSSSSSSSSS

f*** you

[Jenksismyhero]

Did you just describe Cutler's first 4 years in Chicago?

 

Jay is an objectively better QB than McCown. In the history of the NFL, has there ever been a great "system" QB? A guy that flopped everywhere else who became great simply because the coach was a QB whisperer?

 

The simple fact is that, flaws and all (and those have been discussed ad nauseum), Jay Cutler provides the Bears with the best opportunity to win now.

 

Brad Johnson would be your golden boy. Rich Gannon maybe. But yeah, there aren't too many. Still, there are plenty of QB's who have won SB's being game managers and/or allowing the talent around them to do the work. Flacco, Eli, Dilfer, etc.

 

The question is whether Cutler gives you THAT much more of an opportunity to win. I don't think so. Because he f***s up games as often as he wins them.

 

edit: also, all of those issues have been rectified, and Cutler is still Cutler so... if it looks like a duck and walks like a duck, it's a f***ing duck.

Edited September 10, 2014 by Jenksismybitch

[illinilaw08]

Brad Johnson would be your golden boy. Rich Gannon maybe. But yeah, there aren't too many. Still, there are plenty of QB's who have won SB's being game managers and/or allowing the talent around them to do the work. Flacco, Eli, Dilfer, etc.

 

The question is whether Cutler gives you THAT much more of an opportunity to win. I don't think so. Because he f***s up games as often as he wins them.

 

edit: also, all of those issues have been rectified, and Cutler is still Cutler so... if it looks like a duck and walks like a duck, it's a f***ing duck.

 

Flacco and Manning are exactly the hope with Cutler. Flacco had a perfect playoffs the year the Ravens won the SB. But Flacco hasn't done anything much of note before or since.

 

In '06, sure, you could say a QB like Cutler might hurt your chances of winning some games because the defense was dominant. Now? With this roster? The Bears best chance at winning the SB is Cutler catching fire for 4 games in the playoffs like Flacco did in '13.

 

Edit to address your edit: Cutler missed a bunch of games last year and we're one game into this season. Throwing out the game Jay got hurt last year and the game he came back (for rust purposes), it's a 10 game sample size with Trestman. If Cutler scuffles all year and the Bears are 7-9, then you have your answer. Draft a guy this year to groom to take over for Jay in two years...

Edited September 10, 2014 by illinilaw08

[Jenksismyhero]

Flacco and Manning are exactly the hope with Cutler. Flacco had a perfect playoffs the year the Ravens won the SB. But Flacco hasn't done anything much of note before or since.

 

In '06, sure, you could say a QB like Cutler might hurt your chances of winning some games because the defense was dominant. Now? With this roster? The Bears best chance at winning the SB is Cutler catching fire for 4 games in the playoffs like Flacco did in '13.

 

Edit to address your edit: Cutler missed a bunch of games last year and we're one game into this season. Throwing out the game Jay got hurt last year and the game he came back (for rust purposes), it's a 10 game sample size with Trestman. If Cutler scuffles all year and the Bears are 7-9, then you have your answer. Draft a guy this year to groom to take over for Jay in two years...

 

You had a high school football coach come in off the street and perform 10 times better than Cutler ever did last year, with the same team. What does that tell you?

[StrangeSox]

don't draw strong conclusions from small sample sizes?

[southsider2k5]

Has anyone said that there is a real distinct chance that McCown's year that year was a fluke and wouldn't have been duplicated even if he was with the Bears again?

[Jenksismyhero]

don't draw strong conclusions from small sample sizes?

 

5 seasons isn't a small sample size. And 6 games for McCown and 10 games for Cutler isn't insignificant either when you're comparing how the two played in the same offense.

 

The fact that McCown could come off the street and dominate but Cutler didn't is pretty telling. And the fact that people keep giving him excuses is bordering on pathetic these days.

Edited September 10, 2014 by Jenksismybitch

[Chisoxfn]

1) atrocious o-line there

 

2) little to no weapons

 

3) lovie smith

 

Also, while he looked terrible for 3 quarters, he looked much better in the 4th.

They actually have pretty good offensive weapons. Above average RB, Vincent Jackson, who is an above average wideout, plus Mike Evans. Offense isn't short on playmakers and is much better then most offenses the Bears had (really up until a year ago).

[Chisoxfn]

Brad Johnson would be your golden boy. Rich Gannon maybe. But yeah, there aren't too many. Still, there are plenty of QB's who have won SB's being game managers and/or allowing the talent around them to do the work. Flacco, Eli, Dilfer, etc.

 

The question is whether Cutler gives you THAT much more of an opportunity to win. I don't think so. Because he f***s up games as often as he wins them.

 

edit: also, all of those issues have been rectified, and Cutler is still Cutler so... if it looks like a duck and walks like a duck, it's a f***ing duck.

Dude had one of the best QB ratings in the 4th quarter last year and again this year led us on a comeback drive. Unfortunately it wasn't enough. I'm all for evaluating Cutler but he basically had crap to work with his first few years in Chicago. This is the year he deserves whatever happens. I won't base everything on the W/L record though because, quite frankly, we have a crap defense and a crap special teams that our team may not overcome. However, I expect our offense to be very good and put up a lot of points and Jay to have a huge year. This game did nothing to make me think that won't be the case.

[StrangeSox]

5 seasons isn't a small sample size. And 6 games for McCown and 10 games for Cutler isn't insignificant either when you're comparing how the two played in the same offense.

 

The fact that McCown could come off the street and dominate but Cutler didn't is pretty telling. And the fact that people keep giving him excuses is bordering on pathetic these days.

 

I was referring to McCown having a small sample size. McCown's performance in a limited number of games last year that was well outside anything he has done before or since isn't exactly strong evidence on Cutler, but I have zero interest in having this argument again.

[Jenksismyhero]

Has anyone said that there is a real distinct chance that McCown's year that year was a fluke and wouldn't have been duplicated even if he was with the Bears again?

 

In a full season McCown isn't going to be the best QB in the league and have the run that he did. But I think he'd be just as good as Cutler in terms of winning games. McCown never LOST games with his play. He might not WIN them either. But with the weapons the Bears have, I dunno that a QB really needs to. Just be smart with the ball and let your play makers make the plays.

[Jenksismyhero]

Dude had one of the best QB ratings in the 4th quarter last year and again this year led us on a comeback drive. Unfortunately it wasn't enough. I'm all for evaluating Cutler but he basically had crap to work with his first few years in Chicago. This is the year he deserves whatever happens. I won't base everything on the W/L record though because, quite frankly, we have a crap defense and a crap special teams that our team may not overcome. However, I expect our offense to be very good and put up a lot of points and Jay to have a huge year. This game did nothing to make me think that won't be the case.

 

How can you ignore that 2 of his decisions LOST the Bears the game? That pick to the nose tackle was inexcusable for a guy in his 8-9th year in the league.

[StrangeSox]

In a full season McCown isn't going to be the best QB in the league and have the run that he did. But I think he'd be just as good as Cutler in terms of winning games. McCown never LOST games with his play. He might not WIN them either. But with the weapons the Bears have, I dunno that a QB really needs to. Just be smart with the ball and let your play makers make the plays.

 

With the defense and ST the Bears have, they need an explosive offense. How many NFL teams have explosive offenses with a mediocre "won't lose but can't win the game" QB's?

[Balta1701]

With the defense and ST the Bears have, they need an explosive offense. How many NFL teams have explosive offenses with a mediocre "won't lose but can't win the game" QB's?

The Bears will not win a lot of games if they average 20 points and they scored 20 points against a team that had a solid but not spectacular defense a year ago. They scored only 20 in no small part because of 3 turnovers.

[Jenksismyhero]

With the defense and ST the Bears have, they need an explosive offense. How many NFL teams have explosive offenses with a mediocre "won't lose but can't win the game" QB's?

 

Look, Cutler is clearly the higher ceiling guy. No doubt about that. He can make throws that McCown can't make. No one's arguing that. But over a season, while he'll make some spectacular plays, he'll also makes some incredibly stupid ones. Stupid ones that McCown didn't make, even in those 5 games. I think 5 games is a decent sample size. It's not the 1st game where the other team didn't prepare film on the guy.

 

You have two of the best WR's in the game, one of the best RB's in the game, and a very good TE and o-line. You cannot have a QB that makes stupid, moronic mistakes. Those interceptions Sunday reminded me of his first few years here when he lead the league in red zone INT. He was forcing it. And he's always been that way. And you just don't need to do that with the weapons he has. You all can hope he works that out, but that's his style of play, he's never stopped doing that, he didn't last year even with this offense, so why do we think it'll change?

 

Also, when was the last time Cutler won a really big meaningful game? He's been destroyed by nearly every favorite he's ever played against. Green Bay has owned him. San Fran is going to destroy us this weekend. His one playoff victory came against a team with a losing record. Do you EVER feel confident the Bears are going to go on the road as a legit underdog and win? I don't.

[Jenksismyhero]

The Bears will not win a lot of games if they average 20 points and they scored 20 points against a team that had a solid but not spectacular defense a year ago. They scored only 20 in no small part because of 3 turnovers.

 

Oh but guys got hurt and Marshall fumbled and Conte sucks and blah blah blah. So many f'n excuses for this guy.

[iamshack]

1) atrocious o-line there

 

2) little to no weapons

 

3) lovie smith

 

Also, while he looked terrible for 3 quarters, he looked much better in the 4th.

He has no weapons in TB? Are you nuts?

[StrangeSox]

Oh but guys got hurt and Marshall fumbled and Conte sucks and blah blah blah. So many f'n excuses for this guy.

I'm sorry, isn't the weapons around Cutler sort of the key to your argument? I would think both of his WR weapons going out for a period and one of them making a costly fumble would be relevant.

[Chisoxfn]

How can you ignore that 2 of his decisions LOST the Bears the game? That pick to the nose tackle was inexcusable for a guy in his 8-9th year in the league.

A lot of things cost us the game. Play calling, fumbles, poor run defense. Cutler did more to help us win the game then hurt us and I have 1 decision out of about 50 that he made during the game being poor (the pick to the dlinemen). He's the QB and he takes blame and he did but football isn't played in a vacuum and there are a lot of things that if the Bears executed properly, we win that game.

[Soxbadger]

You also have to account for the fact that Jay Cutler is being paid over $15mil where as McCown is being paid $5mil. Would the Bears be a better team with a cheaper QB and more money invested in other positions? My answer is yes, but that is just my fundamental belief in how to run a football team. There are very few players that I feel can justify that type of commitment in a salary cap league, especially given how many injuries there are in football.