2014-2015 NFL Football thread

[bmags]

The going rate for QB is expensive and will continue to get more expensive. 15million isn't great but it is what it is at this point. McCown is old, has been out of the league before, and does not have a long history of this sort of success.

[Chisoxfn]

I'm sorry, isn't the weapons around Cutler sort of the key to your argument? I would think both of his WR weapons going out for a period and one of them making a costly fumble would be relevant.

Dude talks about McCown not making boneheaded plays but he made bonehead play after bonehead play last week. He also says McCown doesn't have playmakers on Tampa which is not the case. When Jay sucks, I'll say he sucks. I thought he played good, not great football last week and was better then a slight majority of the QB's last week. It is a week to week league and the season is won over the course of a season. The key is that Jay's bad games aren't much worse then he played last week...if that is the case and his good games are very good, he'll have a great year and we'll have an offense that can win in this league, however, it can't win without defense and other aspects of the game (just look at how much Green Bay has struggled the past couple of years, despite elite QB play).

[Jenksismyhero]

I'm sorry, isn't the weapons around Cutler sort of the key to your argument? I would think both of his WR weapons going out for a period and one of them making a costly fumble would be relevant.

 

He lost Jeffrey. That's it. He still had Forte, Bennett and an 80% Marshall. Missing Jeffrey didn't cause the moronic interception that lost the game. The O-line replacements were more than adequate. And I won't even start on the Conte nonsense.

[Jenksismyhero]

Dude talks about McCown not making boneheaded plays but he made bonehead play after bonehead play last week. He also says McCown doesn't have playmakers on Tampa which is not the case. When Jay sucks, I'll say he sucks. I thought he played good, not great football last week and was better then a slight majority of the QB's last week. It is a week to week league and the season is won over the course of a season. The key is that Jay's bad games aren't much worse then he played last week...if that is the case and his good games are very good, he'll have a great year and we'll have an offense that can win in this league, however, it can't win without defense and other aspects of the game (just look at how much Green Bay has struggled the past couple of years, despite elite QB play).

 

He was terrible for 3 quarters, and then he was pretty good in the 4th. Guy is in a new system with a terrible offensive line and SOME weapons (I didn't say none, but clearly not the same as Chicago). And guess what. He had a chance to win the game at the end.

 

Also it's hilarious you think Jay played "good." According to football metrics, he was one of the worst QB's of the entire day, taking 3 of the worst 6 plays of the day. http://regressing.deadspin.com/jay-cutler-...-wee-1632009572

 

[Jenksismyhero]

And to be clear, i'm not saying the Bears should have kept McCown in favor of not re-signing Cutler. I'm just saying people need to stop with this "hope" nonsense that he's going to become some player he's not. He has good games, he has bad games. And rarely if ever are the good games against good teams.

[Rowand44]

And to be clear, i'm not saying the Bears should have kept McCown in favor of not re-signing Cutler. I'm just saying people need to stop with this "hope" nonsense that he's going to become some player he's not. He has good games, he has bad games. And rarely if ever are the good games against good teams.

He's never going to be an elite qb but imo he can absolutely lead the Bears to a superbowl.

[Dick Allen]

He lost Jeffrey. That's it. He still had Forte, Bennett and an 80% Marshall. Missing Jeffrey didn't cause the moronic interception that lost the game. The O-line replacements were more than adequate. And I won't even start on the Conte nonsense.

I agree. People are giving it to Conte and I sure he's a bit embarrassed about that last play, but when he started getting pushed around, Jackson was already in chip shot FG range.

[Jenksismyhero]

I agree. People are giving it to Conte and I sure he's a bit embarrassed about that last play, but when he started getting pushed around, Jackson was already in chip shot FG range.

 

Yeah, his response was logical - if I tackle him they win anyway, so I went for the ball. It's hilarious to me that people can ignore how awful guys like Tillman played but place the blame on Conte.

[TheTruth05]

And to be clear, i'm not saying the Bears should have kept McCown in favor of not re-signing Cutler. I'm just saying people need to stop with this "hope" nonsense that he's going to become some player he's not. He has good games, he has bad games. And rarely if ever are the good games against good teams.

 

Perfectly said

[ptatc]

Yeah, his response was logical - if I tackle him they win anyway, so I went for the ball. It's hilarious to me that people can ignore how awful guys like Tillman played but place the blame on Conte.

Exactly, he was thinking about the big picture, about how to win the game. Not just "make the tackle."

[witesoxfan]

How can you ignore that 2 of his decisions LOST the Bears the game? That pick to the nose tackle was inexcusable for a guy in his 8-9th year in the league.

 

Jay Cutler actually had 3 of the 6 plays that hurt his team the most according to Win Percentage Added. The two picks plus the incomplete pass to Holmes on the 3rd down of the final drive in regulation.

 

EDIT: I'm an idiot, I knew someone would mention it and you did yourself.

[Kyyle23]

I haven't looked at Cutlers record against good teams, but the last game of the year against the Packers, he was very good in a very big game. He certainly didn't lose that game

[2nd_city_saint787]

Jay Cutler actually had 3 of the 6 plays that hurt his team the most according to Win Percentage Added. The two picks plus the incomplete pass to Holmes on the 3rd down of the final drive in regulation.

 

EDIT: I'm an idiot, I knew someone would mention it and you did yourself.

 

I'm not sure how the Holmes play, where he slipped out of his break, can be in that conversation while neither of McCowns picks made the list.

[witesoxfan]

I'm not sure how the Holmes play, where he slipped out of his break, can be in that conversation while neither of McCowns picks made the list.

 

It's WPA. If the Bears get a first down there, they can continue on towards trying to score a touchdown which would have sealed the game. Instead, it stalled the drive and forced a 4th down, where the Bears tied it up.

[Soxbadger]

Im not going to blame Cutler for the Holmes play. It wasnt the best play call (Forte had been kind of good) and it was 1 on 1 with the Bears wr having slightly better position. I think that its overall a better strategy to go to Forte or Bennett, but not really going to blame that entirely on Cutler.

[witesoxfan]

Im not going to blame Cutler for the Holmes play. It wasnt the best play call (Forte had been kind of good) and it was 1 on 1 with the Bears wr having slightly better position. I think that its overall a better strategy to go to Forte or Bennett, but not really going to blame that entirely on Cutler.

 

I don't think anyone is, it just so happens that Cutler threw the ball and a 1st down there would have been huge towards the Bears winning. It was more ironic than anything else that Cutler just so happened to have 3 plays that had such negative WPA's. It was a close game, any big plays, positive or negative, are going to have a huge influence in a situation like that.

 

Oh, and this

 

[2nd_city_saint787]

It's WPA. If the Bears get a first down there, they can continue on towards trying to score a touchdown which would have sealed the game. Instead, it stalled the drive and forced a 4th down, where the Bears tied it up.

 

I guess...But I wouldn't use that as an argument as to why Jay sucks. Really not sure who to pin that first INT on either because idk what the play call was. The pick to Williams I won't argue to much, but if I was a QB and saw my TE with his arms in the air while I'm scrambling I'd probably make that play as well. But I'm not an nfl QB sooo ya.

[Chisoxfn]

He was terrible for 3 quarters, and then he was pretty good in the 4th. Guy is in a new system with a terrible offensive line and SOME weapons (I didn't say none, but clearly not the same as Chicago). And guess what. He had a chance to win the game at the end.

 

Also it's hilarious you think Jay played "good." According to football metrics, he was one of the worst QB's of the entire day, taking 3 of the worst 6 plays of the day. http://regressing.deadspin.com/jay-cutler-...-wee-1632009572

Yeah as I posted somewhere else, that was probably the stupidest article I've ever read. When one of the worst plays of the week was a 3rd and 1 that was an incomplete pass to Holmes that was a horrible play call more then anything else (nothing Jay did on the play was wrong). We just didn't execute. It is absolutely absurd. What this article is telling you that in a back and forth, overall close game, every play that changes posession is going to have significant impacts in win probability. Since the game was extremely tight (and late in the game too) vs. the majority of the games in the week, it shouldn't be a shock that our change of possessions ended up having an impact on the game.

[Chisoxfn]

Yeah, his response was logical - if I tackle him they win anyway, so I went for the ball. It's hilarious to me that people can ignore how awful guys like Tillman played but place the blame on Conte.

Conte didn't blow the gap coverage. Briggs was awful.

[DrunkBomber]

Even though it looked awful I dont think many people are gonna say the Conte play cost the Bears the game, but there were a handful of plays where he was too deep and was giving up wide open passes 10-15 yards down the field. A few of them were terrible throws too, I think it was Woods who made a leaping catch right in the middle of the field and Conte was too far back to make a play on it.

[bmags]

Even though it looked awful I dont think many people are gonna say the Conte play cost the Bears the game, but there were a handful of plays where he was too deep and was giving up wide open passes 10-15 yards down the field. A few of them were terrible throws too, I think it was Woods who made a leaping catch right in the middle of the field and Conte was too far back to make a play on it.

 

That's just holes in the zone.

[DrunkBomber]

That's just holes in the zone.

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2014090702/2...&tab=videos

 

I agree for the most part that it was a gap in the zone but with the high throw and the fact that Woods had to leap like that and essentially landed unscathed because it looked like Conte had his head down and just missed.

[TheTruth05]

"Blameless Jay"

 

http://espn.go.com/chicago/nfl/story/_/id/...ever-just-right

 

 

[Jake]

Yeah as I posted somewhere else, that was probably the stupidest article I've ever read. When one of the worst plays of the week was a 3rd and 1 that was an incomplete pass to Holmes that was a horrible play call more then anything else (nothing Jay did on the play was wrong). We just didn't execute. It is absolutely absurd. What this article is telling you that in a back and forth, overall close game, every play that changes posession is going to have significant impacts in win probability. Since the game was extremely tight (and late in the game too) vs. the majority of the games in the week, it shouldn't be a shock that our change of possessions ended up having an impact on the game.

 

It's just that our win probability went way down on that play. The assignment of blame is completely up in the air, though we certainly hope/believe the best QBs generally get it done in those spots.

[bmags]

Probably not a good sign that the Bears could be a playoff team that I feel there is a 0% chance they can beat another playoff team.