Asking Prices Beginning to Fall

[rowand's rowdies]

Just read on rotoworld that Ervin Santanta's asking price has dropped "significantly", maybe even to 3 years.

 

At worst he's a trade chip that could be very valuable, especially in year 2's trade deadline.

 

My top offer if I'm RH to him probably still isn't enough, but maybe at this point it could get it done.

 

I don't offer him any more guaranteed than 3/33, but at $11/year, or 10/11/12, at worst he's a bloated contract #3 guy who some team with lots of added TV revenue will look to add at any time of need.

 

Arroyo is not an idea pitcher for the Sox and the Cell but a very ideal pitcher for what we need. A RH innings eater. He may even go to 2 years, but is most likely looking for 3 to get a deal done. He is older but durable. I wouldn't go more than 3/24, but at that price I would bite, again for a most likely solid trade chip this year or next with a stable RH option in the rotation.

 

Thoughts and max offers you would give?

Edited February 4, 2014 by rowand's rowdies

[GGajewski18]

Santana would cost the Sox a 2nd round draft pick, so I don't think Hahn will be interested in that.

[LittleHurt05]

Another Ervin Santana thread? I'd like to add Ubaldo Jimenez into the discussion too.

 

[witesoxfan]

Rick Hahn has said the White Sox are not interested in anything that involves the White Sox giving up a draft pick, and you aren't bringing in Bronson Arroyo to trade him considering he turns 37 in 20 days, so that should summarily end this thread before it begins.

[Marty34]

Rick Hahn has said the White Sox are not interested in anything that involves the White Sox giving up a draft pick, and you aren't bringing in Bronson Arroyo to trade him considering he turns 37 in 20 days, so that should summarily end this thread before it begins.

 

Rick Hahn would be making a mistake if he holds to this strategy.

[Quin]

This s*** again?

[hogan873]

Can we issue a moratorium on any more threads of this variety?

[rowand's rowdies]

I don't think a 2nd rd pick, albeit a high one, is a hold up when you can get a solid pitcher like Santana for a below market deal, but that's definitely arguable. Ask me tomorrow and I might change my mind. I'm not high on E Santana, but we need all the talent/trade chips we can get.

 

Arroyo is a little older than I thought, so ya no go on a 3 year deal, and yes he may not be much of a trade chip so I'm not sure I would even go 2/15 for him, so maybe no go on that idea.

 

Ubaldo sucks and anyone who thinks we should sign him should buy some bleacher season tickets to be ready to catch a lot of deep home runs hit by the power hitters of our AL Central opponents.

[Kyyle23]

Can we issue a moratorium on any more threads of this variety?

 

We can, unfortunately we cannot stop people from posting it anyways

[harfman77]

Can we issue a moratorium on any more threads of this variety?

 

This is what you will get until there is real news to talk about.

[witesoxfan]

From this point forward, for anyone arguing or trying to justify the White Sox adding a starter, rather than arguing a moot point, I will merely reply with:

 

"I disagree with what you say but will defend to the death your right to say it."

Edited February 4, 2014 by witesoxfan

[rowand's rowdies]

Why don't you moderators with nothing to add to the conversation topic start some new brilliant topics so we can discuss them.

 

I don't know what you want in pale hose talk if news of the top starting pitcher left on the market's price dropping in the news isn't topic worthy.

God forbid someone tries to bring up a new non 44 page topic about this news/pitcher.

 

Sorry about the poor topic for baseball conversation that you feel is not topic worthy, please feel free to take this topic/thread down.

[witesoxfan]

Why don't you moderators with nothing to add to the conversation topic start some new brilliant topics so we can discuss them.

 

I don't know what you want in pale hose talk if news of the top starting pitcher left on the market's price dropping in the news isn't topic worthy.

God forbid someone tries to bring up a new non 44 page topic about this news/pitcher.

 

Sorry about the poor topic for baseball conversation that you feel is not topic worthy, please feel free to take this topic/thread down.

 

It has nothing to do with this. We've run this course twice already and it results in nothing but bickering, patronizing, veiled shots, and insults.

 

The fact of the matter is, this is a very, very slow time for baseball, and there's not a lot to talk about. That's the nature of the business.

 

 

[lasttriptotulsa]

The thought of signing a 37 year old Bronson Arroyo to a 3/24 contract makes me wanna barf. He is a Major League average pitcher whose main redeeming quality is that he takes the mound every 5th day and throws 200 innings. If the Sox planned on competing this year and needed a 5th starter and he could be brought in cheap, I'd say okay. But none of that is happening, so no thanks.

 

We've been over Santana again and again. I'm done with that broken record so I won't even comment on him.

 

My best offers to Arroyo and Santana $0/0 years.

Edited February 4, 2014 by lasttriptotulsa

[Kyyle23]

The thought of signing a 37 year old Bronson Arroyo to a 3/24 contract makes me wanna barf. He is a Major League average pitcher whose main redeeming quality is that he takes the mound every 5th day and throws 200 innings. If the Sox planned on competing this year and needed a 5th starter and he could be brought in cheap, I'd say okay. But none of that is happening, so no thanks.

 

We've been over Santana again and again. I'm done with that broken record so I won't even comment on him.

 

My best offers to Arroyo and Santana $0/0 years.

 

with full NTC

[southsider2k5]

Another Ervin Santana thread? I'd like to add Ubaldo Jimenez into the discussion too.

 

 

I swear if you mention the next name, I will suspend you for eleventy billion days.

[The Ultimate Champion]

Ervin Santana 3 years $45M? Yes.

 

Sale-Santana-Quintana-Johnson-Danks, done and done. Now we don't need to rush any of the pitching prospects. Paulino to the pen, Lindstrom is traded, etc.

 

Great move.

 

 

[witesoxfan]

Ervin Santana 3 years $45M? Yes.

 

Sale-Santana-Quintana-Johnson-Danks, done and done. Now we don't need to rush any of the pitching prospects. Paulino to the pen, Lindstrom is traded, etc.

 

Great move.

 

Paulino's career ERA in the bullpen is over 9.

 

Otherwise, I disagree with what you say but will defend to the death your right to say it.

[The Ultimate Champion]

If Paulino puts up an ERA of 9 in the bullpen then you stuff his ass into a rocket shell and fire him at the Astros or Cubs. That second year is only an option homeboy.

[southsider2k5]

Of course their prices are beginning to fall. THEY AREN'T THAT GOOD. They are back of the rotation pitchers many years and have enormous swings between their good and bad years. It was only 2012 that Jimenez put up numbers worse than the year that Danks put up in 2013. Same for Santana. In terms of pitching, it is the same thing as offering Adam Dunn a 3-4 year deal based on the bounceback year he had in 2012.

[witesoxfan]

If Paulino puts up an ERA of 9 in the bullpen then you stuff his ass into a rocket shell and fire him at the Astros or Cubs. That second year is only an option homeboy.

 

But he is fairly good as a starter. So maybe they're just going to give him a shot there.

[The Ultimate Champion]

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/s/santaer01.shtml

 

He's a quality mid-rotation starter when healthy and at his current price he is a bargain. #4's and #5's are paid what he's apparently asking and over a longer term.

 

BTW how much dumber do the Royals look now signing Vargas for 4 years $32M? Ha.

 

Santana's problems have been health & the fact that he can get a little shaky mentally ala Foyd. Coop works very well with pitchers and Hermie does a great job keeping them healthy. He knows the division a little bit better now too. Oh, and all his bad years his BB/9 totals were 3.0 or higher, another thing Coop does is get his guys throwing the ball in the zone.

 

My argument is that if you sign this guy it's a TON likelier that you get a #3 starter now than it is you get similar value at any point out of that draft pick. Then you can turn around and trade a starter from a position of strength later on, probably Santana or Danks should both be doing well enough. You make this deal because it IMO probably means a better future than the draft pick alone, since you're bringing in more value with Santana than you'd be with the pick & you're spending $$$ to acquire talent, not really trading anyone.

[The Ultimate Champion]

But he is fairly good as a starter. So maybe they're just going to give him a shot there.

Paulino is a solid buy-low opportunity, yes. But let's not get carried away thinking he has some great track record or anything to stand on. He's a rehabbing project we have an option on. He's a low-risk placeholder who if he turns into a useful player might bring back a solid prospect under favorable circumstances. It's a nice move. Santana OTOH is a whole lot better than he is & should be expected to perform a whole lot better than Paulino both next year and over the next 3 years.

[witesoxfan]

I disagree with what you say but will defend to the death your right to say it.

[southsider2k5]

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/s/santaer01.shtml

 

He's a quality mid-rotation starter when healthy and at his current price he is a bargain. #4's and #5's are paid what he's apparently asking and over a longer term.

 

BTW how much dumber do the Royals look now signing Vargas for 4 years $32M? Ha.

 

Santana's problems have been health & the fact that he can get a little shaky mentally ala Foyd. Coop works very well with pitchers and Hermie does a great job keeping them healthy. He knows the division a little bit better now too. Oh, and all his bad years his BB/9 totals were 3.0 or higher, another thing Coop does is get his guys throwing the ball in the zone.

 

My argument is that if you sign this guy it's a TON likelier that you get a #3 starter now than it is you get similar value at any point out of that draft pick. Then you can turn around and trade a starter from a position of strength later on, probably Santana or Danks should both be doing well enough. You make this deal because it IMO probably means a better future than the draft pick alone, since you're bringing in more value with Santana than you'd be with the pick & you're spending $$$ to acquire talent, not really trading anyone.

 

The problem is with signing Santana, you still might not be getting a #3 starter.