Asking Prices Beginning to Fall

[Marty34]

Of course their prices are beginning to fall. THEY AREN'T THAT GOOD. They are back of the rotation pitchers many years and have enormous swings between their good and bad years. It was only 2012 that Jimenez put up numbers worse than the year that Danks put up in 2013. Same for Santana. In terms of pitching, it is the same thing as offering Adam Dunn a 3-4 year deal based on the bounceback year he had in 2012.

 

At the very worst it's a cheap insurance policy as they develop their rotation. A top three of Sale Quintana and Santana is pretty good.

[elrockinMT]

From this point forward, for anyone arguing or trying to justify the White Sox adding a starter, rather than arguing a moot point, I will merely reply with:

 

"I disagree with what you say but will defend to the death your right to say it."

 

 

Didn't John Wayne say that?

[witesoxfan]

At the very worst it's a cheap insurance policy as they develop their rotation. A top three of Sale Quintana and Santana is pretty good.

 

Is Adam Dunn cheap?

[southsider2k5]

At the very worst it's a cheap insurance policy as they develop their rotation. A top three of Sale Quintana and Santana is pretty good.

 

You keep using that word, I do not think it means what you think it means.

[Y2Jimmy0]

Ervin Santana 3 years $45M? Yes.

 

Sale-Santana-Quintana-Johnson-Danks, done and done. Now we don't need to rush any of the pitching prospects. Paulino to the pen, Lindstrom is traded, etc.

 

Great move.

 

 

That is a good price for Santana. The White Sox should not pay it though. You are entitled to your opinion but to me it doesn't make any sense. The Sox are not going to win this year. They are trying to implement a new young core of players that fit on the Southside for the long-term. Being bad sucks but one of the benefits of being awful is the fact that the team's draft spending limit increases. While at first glance, you may say "Oh who cares about a 2nd round pick" and list a ton of names of players that have busted in that spot, that thought process is very short sighted. The Sox will have roughly $10.5 million to spend on their top 10 selections. If they gave away their 2nd round choice, they also lose the ability to spend the money that the particular slot is worth. That is just stupid to give up in my opinion. Obviously, some of us disagree. I am just glad that Rick Hahn agrees with me on this.

[witesoxfan]

Didn't John Wayne say that?

 

Actually Evelyn Beatrice Hall under the pseudonym S. G. Tallentyre in a biography on Voltaire.

[2nd_city_saint787]

Paulino is a solid buy-low opportunity, yes. But let's not get carried away thinking he has some great track record or anything to stand on. He's a rehabbing project we have an option on. He's a low-risk placeholder who if he turns into a useful player might bring back a solid prospect under favorable circumstances. It's a nice move. Santana OTOH is a whole lot better than he is & should be expected to perform a whole lot better than Paulino both next year and over the next 3 years.

 

Sans 1 bad game Paulino has a 3.40 era over his last 150 innings as a starter. Why sign the guy if you're not even going to give him a chance to prove himself?

[SCCWS]

Sans 1 bad game Paulino has a 3.40 era over his last 150 innings as a starter. Why sign the guy if you're not even going to give him a chance to prove himself?

 

 

Red Sox have 6 starters and may need an outfielder. How about we trade A. Garcia for Peavy ...................

 

[caulfield12]

Red Sox have 6 starters and may need an outfielder. How about we trade A. Garcia for Peavy ...................

 

 

Haha....that way we could go back to playing DeAza everyday so we could trade him, lol.

 

 

Well, at least Voltaire was nicely worked into the conversation in this thread, there's that noteworthy name. (And to think I felt a built guilty for extending the Dunn thread by including some positive comments about Santana, who only 3 people are arguing for).

 

And, not surprisingly, Dick Allen's been fairly quiet about the idea of Don Cooper having magical powers or turning Jimenez into another version of Contreras...although he has been more in favor of adding a veteran pitcher than most here.

 

 

So somewhere there needs to be an Adam Dunn/Santana/Jimenez/Paulino "catch all" thread at least for the first 2-3 months of the season.

 

 

 

 

[Balta1701]

Red Sox have 6 starters and may need an outfielder. How about we trade A. Garcia for Peavy ...................

I'm actually not sure they'd really be in the mood to add and OF, they probably want to play the rookie out there, but if they were in the mood for one, De Aza could actually be a non-terrible fit (depending on what happens with their DH spot as well)

[caulfield12]

Not necessarily.

 

A lot depends on where Bogaerts ends up.

 

They already have Nava, Gomes, Victorino and Jackie Bradley.

 

For the moment, he's the starting SS and could be moved to 3B, but he could also end up in LF (let's say they brought Drew back at mid-season, for example).

 

Obviously, they have a big hole to fill in CF, but Bradley has a ton of ability and they'll give him half the season to prove himself (see Brian Anderson in 2006).

 

[ILMOU]

Paulino's career ERA in the bullpen is over 9.

 

Otherwise, I disagree with what you say but will defend to the death your right to say it.

 

Yeah, and he's 30. Don't want to rush him, lol. EJohnson is not being rushed, nor is Rienzo who's sitting in the sixth spot. Each of our five projected starters needs the innings heading into this season. Do we really want to go to a 6 man - and see Sale and Q once every 6 games instead of 5 , when it's completely unnecessary?

 

Some here think the backend of our rotation will blow, I prefer to see them pitch first. Not denying there's bargains to be had in terms of the current market and potential (over)valuation of the 2nd round pick. But then, when I look at our last three 2nd rounders being Johnson, Beck and Danish and the potential (yes, I know, potential) value they'll bring to the club going forward, I just don't think it's a good fit for our club right now.

 

After this season, we will have a very good idea of who is and isn't part of the core moving forward. We will also have a lot to spend. Assuming the compensation rules remain the same (though I wouldn't completely rule out a tweaking of them for next offseason under threat of Collusion suit by the Union), are the picks going to be looked at as less valuable next year? IMO, barring a change, the market will look rather the same for the guys of the Ubaldo/Ervin level. And we might get somebody we want, as opposed to a guy we're forced to play whether he sucks or not.

 

One thing to consider - there's an advantage to being in a "go for it" mentality as it pertains to FA, in that by signing multiple QO receiving FA's in an offseason, you lose a progressively less valuable draft pick with each signing. The Yankees have employed this strategy in '09 and this year. Few can, but we should be able to next year to plug the remaining holes.

 

Another thing to consider - If we win enough this year to get out of the bottom ten (last year, both the 10th and 11th worst teams had 74 wins), then we'll be giving up higher picks overall, but we don't know about the relative overall quality of the two drafts at this time.

 

[Marty34]

Is Adam Dunn cheap?

 

Four years ago, no. The Sox were tapped out of cash after they signed him and still needed help. They still need lots of help, but they have cash to spend.

[pettie4sox]

Four years ago, no. The Sox were tapped out of cash after they signed him and still needed help. They still need lots of help, but they have cash to spend.

 

You probably want to spend your cash on actually "help" and not spend money just to spend it. I'm pretty sure that's how you end up bankrupt.

[ILMOU]

Haha....that way we could go back to playing DeAza everyday so we could trade him, lol.

 

 

Well, at least Voltaire was nicely worked into the conversation in this thread, there's that noteworthy name. (And to think I felt a built guilty for extending the Dunn thread by including some positive comments about Santana, who only 3 people are arguing for).

 

And, not surprisingly, Dick Allen's been fairly quiet about the idea of Don Cooper having magical powers or turning Jimenez into another version of Contreras...although he has been more in favor of adding a veteran pitcher than most here.

 

 

So somewhere there needs to be an Adam Dunn/Santana/Jimenez/Paulino "catch all" thread at least for the first 2-3 months of the season.

 

Indeed. We can call it the "Told ya so" thread and it can be the depository (suppository? ) for all the worn-out arguments of the too-long offseason. Start it on March 31.

 

[witesoxfan]

Four years ago, no. The Sox were tapped out of cash after they signed him and still needed help. They still need lots of help, but they have cash to spend.

 

I genuinely don't think you understand the definition of the word cheap. If Adam Dunn is not cheap, then neither Ervin Santana nor Ubaldo Jimenez are cheap. They will be making the same amount of money, roughly.

[Marty34]

I genuinely don't think you understand the definition of the word cheap. If Adam Dunn is not cheap, then neither Ervin Santana nor Ubaldo Jimenez are cheap. They will be making the same amount of money, roughly.

 

How is ~$40M today roughly the same as $56M? in 2010?

[Balta1701]

How is ~$40M today roughly the same as $56M? in 2010?

If Adam Dunn's contract was 4/$40, would it have been a good deal in your eyes?

[Marty34]

Yeah, and he's 30. Don't want to rush him, lol. EJohnson is not being rushed, nor is Rienzo who's sitting in the sixth spot. Each of our five projected starters needs the innings heading into this season. Do we really want to go to a 6 man - and see Sale and Q once every 6 games instead of 5 , when it's completely unnecessary?

 

Some here think the backend of our rotation will blow, I prefer to see them pitch first. Not denying there's bargains to be had in terms of the current market and potential (over)valuation of the 2nd round pick. But then, when I look at our last three 2nd rounders being Johnson, Beck and Danish and the potential (yes, I know, potential) value they'll bring to the club going forward, I just don't think it's a good fit for our club right now.

 

After this season, we will have a very good idea of who is and isn't part of the core moving forward. We will also have a lot to spend. Assuming the compensation rules remain the same (though I wouldn't completely rule out a tweaking of them for next offseason under threat of Collusion suit by the Union), are the picks going to be looked at as less valuable next year? IMO, barring a change, the market will look rather the same for the guys of the Ubaldo/Ervin level. And we might get somebody we want, as opposed to a guy we're forced to play whether he sucks or not.

 

One thing to consider - there's an advantage to being in a "go for it" mentality as it pertains to FA, in that by signing multiple QO receiving FA's in an offseason, you lose a progressively less valuable draft pick with each signing. The Yankees have employed this strategy in '09 and this year. Few can, but we should be able to next year to plug the remaining holes.

 

Another thing to consider - If we win enough this year to get out of the bottom ten (last year, both the 10th and 11th worst teams had 74 wins), then we'll be giving up higher picks overall, but we don't know about the relative overall quality of the two drafts at this time.

 

With the price these guys are going to sign for, there's no upside to waiting for next year.

[Marty34]

If Adam Dunn's contract was 4/$40, would it have been a good deal in your eyes?

 

In hindsight no because the "All In" strategy was silly because they stopped spending after that (and Konerko) when they needed a lot more help.

[Balta1701]

In hindsight no because the "All In" strategy was silly because they stopped spending after that (and Konerko) when they needed a lot more help.

As is 100%, exactly, to the letter the case right now.

[Marty34]

As is 100%, exactly, to the letter the case right now.

 

No. The Sox had an old core in 2011.

[lasttriptotulsa]

With the price these guys are going to sign for, there's no upside to waiting for next year.

 

Are you one of these people that go to the store and buy something you don't need just because it was on sale?

[witesoxfan]

How is ~$40M today roughly the same as $56M? in 2010?

 

#1) If those guys were 4/$40, they wouldn't be on the free agent market. They MAY take that over 3 years.

#2) $40 over 3 years is just under $14 mill a year. Guess what Dunn's annual average salary was?

#3) Since when in is $40 million *cheap*?

[witesoxfan]

Are you one of these people that go to the store and buy something you don't need just because it was on sale?

 

A gallon of pickled pigs' feet for only $4?