Asking Prices Beginning to Fall

[Balta1701]

Near 4 in AAA.

Now you might have a point here if you hadn't paid any attention to the whtie sox minor league system, which I assume you didn't. Rienzo was promoted to AAA to start last year. Here are his ERA numbers by month:

 

7.71

5.74

2.30

1.23 (July, then called up and never pitched in August).

 

He had about 1.5 bad, legitimately disappointing months to start the season after his promotion, then suddenly things clicked and he was lights out until being called up after the Peavy trade. It's not unreasonable to think that, given how he was pitching, with a full year in Charlotte his total ERA would be in the low 3's or better, but instead he was getting valuable MLB experience.

 

He had a rough first month after promotion, which does happen to guys fairly often. That he was able to recover from that should be a testiment to his ability.

[witesoxfan]

i don't think they will go with just 11 pitchers the entire year.

 

So they'd just kick someone out of the rotation and say HERE YOU GO, TAKE A SHOT AT STARTING! SUCK IT JOHN!

 

This move might, on some level, make sense next year. It does not make sense this year.

[ILMOU]

Rienzo and Surkamp and Axelrod have been tried and convicted of being not so good.

 

Rienzo has more stuff than Axe, so he has more potential, whether he realizes it or not. Not yet convicted, imo. Can't comment on Surkamp yet.

[witesoxfan]

Because Sox fans believe Sox management when they say they have no money.

 

Yes, and that's why we're totally oblivious to the roughly 6 year, $120 million offer they made to Tanaka. You are the one who wants to spend frivolous money on players like Santana, Jimenez, and Hamilton.

[Dick Allen]

So they'd just kick someone out of the rotation and say HERE YOU GO, TAKE A SHOT AT STARTING! SUCK IT JOHN!

 

This move might, on some level, make sense next year. It does not make sense this year.

Why would it make sense next year but not this?

[Marty34]

Yes, and that's why we're totally oblivious to the roughly 6 year, $120 million offer they made to Tanaka. You are the one who wants to spend frivolous money on players like Santana, Jimenez, and Hamilton.

 

Don't forget Greinke.

[Balta1701]

Why would it make sense next year but not this?

Because next year we might know that someone isn't good, we might know that someone got injured this year...or, more importantly, we might be considering ourselves in a position where 1-2 extra wins during the year could be the difference between a playoff team and staying home.

[Y2Jimmy0]

Holy s*** this is actually happening again in a different thread. This is awesome. I can't wait for Ubaldo and Ervin to sign somewhere already but with this new system, I am expecting that to be a long while.

[The Ultimate Champion]

Anyone ever think of converting Dunn to a CF or 3B? I was just thinking, there have been some pretty big guys in the past to play both of those positions, so maybe Dunn could too?

 

How about this: all Spring training Dunn is diving for balls over there at the hot corner, chasing down shots in the OF, smashing into the wall, etc. Aren't there like 40 minor league fields out there anyway? Dunn can have his own field.

 

Now, given that Dunn has always been more of a 1B/LF/DH type, there is of course an unfortunate possibly that he gets hurt in the process. That would be terrible, obviously. But assuming it is not written into his contract that he can only play one of the above 3 positions, there really shouldn't be any way the team insurance company could get out of paying the claim, right? So I mean it would just be a terrible thing, but let's say the deductible here is even as much as say 25% of his contract, that would still be $11.25M saved and that right there may almost pay for one year of Santana. Silver lining all the way. Of course Dunn would have to be out the whole year, so during the recovery process if he looked like he was going to come back early we'd have to put him on a pretty s***ty rehab program.

 

What's this thread about anyway, washing machines?

 

Yeah I think we should sign Santana for 3/$39 and I can't believe there are actually angry arguments against it. Balta, you posted something about our pitching being 8th in something, great, but 8th isn't #1, and anything less than #1 in status represents an opportunity for improvement. Why should we not try to get better *everywhere* rather than just in one spot? No matter what happens with this offense good or bad, this team is still going to be built on pitching and defense, because that's what our FO wants. So keep playing to your strengths & sign Santana if he's really going to come that cheap.

[witesoxfan]

Why would it make sense next year but not this?

 

Because you will have a better idea of what the team will look like and what to expect moving forward. Why would you spend money on a starting pitcher this year if you end up having 6 good to great pitchers on the staff but the offense blows? That's a very real possibility. Then you are suddenly stuck with an extremely large commitment with the possibility of having no way to move it. You also don't have the room in the rotation to give these young pitchers experience to determine how good or bad they are.

 

How many successful rebuilding teams have you seen that sign a middle of the rotation starter for 3 years and not regret it?

[Dick Allen]

Yes, and that's why we're totally oblivious to the roughly 6 year, $120 million offer they made to Tanaka. You are the one who wants to spend frivolous money on players like Santana, Jimenez, and Hamilton.

Says the guy who wanted to spend $44 million for 4 years for a 29 year old catcher who has had one good year.

[Y2Jimmy0]

Anyone ever think of converting Dunn to a CF or 3B? I was just thinking, there have been some pretty big guys in the past to play both of those positions, so maybe Dunn could too?

 

How about this: all Spring training Dunn is diving for balls over there at the hot corner, chasing down shots in the OF, smashing into the wall, etc. Aren't there like 40 minor league fields out there anyway? Dunn can have his own field.

 

Now, given that Dunn has always been more of a 1B/LF/DH type, there is of course an unfortunate possibly that he gets hurt in the process. That would be terrible, obviously. But assuming it is not written into his contract that he can only play one of the above 3 positions, there really shouldn't be any way the team insurance company could get out of paying the claim, right? So I mean it would just be a terrible thing, but let's say the deductible here is even as much as say 25% of his contract, that would still be $11.25M saved and that right there may almost pay for one year of Santana. Silver lining all the way. Of course Dunn would have to be out the whole year, so during the recovery process if he looked like he was going to come back early we'd have to put him on a pretty s***ty rehab program.

 

What's this thread about anyway, washing machines?

 

Yeah I think we should sign Santana for 3/$39 and I can't believe there are actually angry arguments against it. Balta, you posted something about our pitching being 8th in something, great, but 8th isn't #1, and anything less than #1 in status represents an opportunity for improvement. Why should we not try to get better *everywhere* rather than just in one spot? No matter what happens with this offense good or bad, this team is still going to be built on pitching and defense, because that's what our FO wants. So keep playing to your strengths & sign Santana if he's really going to come that cheap.

 

 

You do have quite the vendetta against Dunn.

[southsider2k5]

Near 4 in AAA. Doesn't really have an out pitch. Struggled with control. He is going to be 26 in a couple of months, he is a reliever/ spot starter for a good team if everything works out.

 

Why do the White Sox need to employ players who should play for bad teams, just so we can see what we already really know?

 

If you want the White Sox to be good, you should want them to employ good players.

 

And the odds are pretty good that Jimenez and Santana won't be good players and will have bad contracts during their course of their deals, based on some of the pretty bad years they have had very recently.

[southsider2k5]

Another quality post from SS2k5. Do you ever post a thought about baseball in this section other than a copy and paste of Twitter?

 

You know darned if you cared about anything people said, the thread would never get to this point.

[Dick Allen]

[/b]

 

And the odds are pretty good that Jimenez and Santana won't be good players and will have bad contracts during their course of their deals, based on some of the pretty bad years they have had very recently.

That's were I disagree, at least with Jimenez. His problems were more mechanical. He straightened that out and was great. Not as great as he was in Colorado, but still great. And the White Sox employ a pitching coach that really works on the exact thing Jimenez has struggled with.

[witesoxfan]

Says the guy who wanted to spend $44 million for 4 years for a 29 year old catcher who has had one good year.

 

First, it was $40, and I said I'd be willing to spend that. Secondly, I actually backed off that quite a bit once free agency heated up. Third, that's actually a huge position of need, where a .700 OPS and good defense would have been a monstrosity of an upgrade.

[Marty34]

First, it was $40, and I said I'd be willing to spend that. Secondly, I actually backed off that quite a bit once free agency heated up. Third, that's actually a huge position of need, where a .700 OPS and good defense would have been a monstrosity of an upgrade.

 

LOL! So were you wrong or right?

[The Ultimate Champion]

Says the guy who wanted to spend $44 million for 4 years for a 29 year old catcher who has had one good year.

^What kinds a peas is dat??

 

Suga SNAP peas! Dayumm!

[Y2Jimmy0]

LOL! So were you wrong or right?

 

 

Salty also did not cost a 99 loss team a draft pick.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

Just to expand more on what I said about Rienzo earlier his last 10 starts at AAA before his call up he went 5-3 with a 1.64 ERA . I have no idea what Dick meant by a dime a dozen in referring to Rienzo ,but I would like to challenge him to find a dozen starters in AAA with similiar numbers. 10 starts 66 inings pitched 69 K's 24 BB and that 1.64 ERA also holding opponents to a .192 BA. I will even give him the whole year at AAA to find a simliar stretch of 10 games for a dozen AAA starting pitchers. You cannot use Erik Johnson since he is with the Sox.

Edited February 5, 2014 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[witesoxfan]

LOL! So were you wrong or right?

 

I don't know? We'll have to see what Saltalamacchia does. Not everything has to be a stance. I was quite indifferent on Saltalamacchia. I said many times "if they sign him, great, if they don't, great." Just because I was or was not at one time willing to spend doesn't make it the right move, nor does it make it the wrong move.

 

I was not nearly as adament about adding Saltalamacchia as the contingent here is about adding a mid rotation starter, and at least Saltalamacchia would have been a significant upgrade on the Sox current catching situation. You simply can't say that about Jimenez or Santana.

[Marty34]

I don't know? We'll have to see what Saltalamacchia does. Not everything has to be a stance. I was quite indifferent on Saltalamacchia. I said many times "if they sign him, great, if they don't, great." Just because I was or was not at one time willing to spend doesn't make it the right move, nor does it make it the wrong move.

 

I was not nearly as adament about adding Saltalamacchia as the contingent here is about adding a mid rotation starter, and at least Saltalamacchia would have been a significant upgrade on the Sox current catching situation. You simply can't say that about Jimenez or Santana.

 

Paulino is still the 5th starter right?

[Dick Allen]

Show me where I said that.

 

I've said guys can make it to the majors in 4 years and you have a pretty good idea of what you have and whether or not they will make the majors. That does not make them release candidates.

Sorry, not release candidates, after thoughts. And if a HS kid is picked in 2014, according to you if they aren't up by 2019 they probably will never be with the White Sox. Here it is:

 

 

I absolutely think that Hawkins could help the Sox in 2 years. It all depends on how well he performs. The fact is, if these guys aren't helping or close to helping the major league team in 4 years, they're basically after thoughts. Do you really think anyone in the White Sox front office views Jared Mitchell as a potential starting player down the road? But he went to college, so he should have been up in 3 years, right?

 

If the high schooler they take in the 1st and/or 2nd round this year isn't up by the end of the decade, odds are pretty good they'll never be up with the White Sox.

[The Ultimate Champion]

Just to expand more on what I said about Rienzo earlier his last 10 starts at AAA before his call up he went 5-3 with a 1.64 ERA . I have no idea what Dick meant by a dime a dozen in referring to Rienzo ,but I would like to challenge him to find a dozen starters in AAA with similiar numbers. 10 starts 66 inings pitched 69 K's 24 BB and that 1.84 ERA also holding opponents to a .192 BA. I will even give him the whole year at AAA to find a simliar stretch of 10 games for a dozen AAA starting pitchers. You cannot use Erik Johnson since he is with the Sox.

He has very underwhelming stuff. MR or 5th starter and probably trade bait IMO.

 

Paulino is a lot more interesting than he is to me, but he's still kind of a hope and a prayer. He would need to look pretty good to get the option picked up.

 

The next member of the rotation is probably Beck in the eyes of the org which is why the signed the placeholder. If you sign a much better player then you likely end up with a good problem - IF nobody gets hurt. Otherwise you just end up with 5 starters when Beck is here because someone is on the DL.

 

The worst realistic outcome of signing either Santana or Ubaldo is having them be bad pitchers for us. A 3-year deal plus their experience in the league mitigates a lot of that risk. If they're even average, at these supposed salaries, they are definitely movable and bring back something worth mentioning.

[ILMOU]

Salty also did not cost a 99 loss team a draft pick.

And we don't know what he's worth until he actually plays in Miami. His career vs. RHP has been good, and could have platooned nicely with either of our two backup catchers. Ultimately, you want to pay no more than market value, but many pundits expected his services to be in demand and were surprised Salty's market got that low. Personally, I feel a lot of folks panicked off of his playoff demotion.