lasttriptotulsa Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Feb 4, 2014 -> 08:00 PM) So what. Dynamite drop in Marty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gosox41 Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 QUOTE (staxx @ Feb 4, 2014 -> 10:11 AM) Oakland never had a pitcher of Sales' Caliber. I don't feel like debating where Sale ranks amongst Oakland pitchers from the last 10 years, but I'd be more then happy to have Hudson, Mulder, and Zito as my front 3 starters (when they were with Oakland not currently.) Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beautox Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 Yes I think this core can win and as everyone knows once your in the post season its a crap shoot. On average you need about 45WAR to have a solid playoff run but you only need about 40 to have a shot at the WC. Lets take a look at what oliver says projecting for '15 and not taking into account our upcoming season. Side note: I was nothing short of amazed seeing Hahn pick up eaton and davidson after i was hoping something of that nature would occur during the trade deadline last season. Which brings me to thinking that we eventually land Grandal this trade deadline or next offseason. I think the padres make a run at the dodgers in the west and will need some more depth to pull it together as the season progresses. DH R Dayan Viciedo 26(in '15) .257/.307/.412 34HR 94wRC+ 0.5WAR - Oliver 15 C S Yasmani Grandal 26(in '15) .250/.353/.387 10HR 112wRC+ 3.8WAR - Oliver 15 1B R Jose Abreu 28(in '15) .270/.334/.465 25HR 122wRC+ 2.2WAR - Fans(19) 2B R Marcus Semien 24(in '15) .236/.309/.404 19HR 93wRC+ 2.9 - Oliver 15 SS S Carlos Sanchez 22(in '15) .312/.353/.423 5HR 105wRC+ 3.6 - Aybar '09 3B R Matt Davidson 24(in '15) .215/.288/.390 22HR 82wRC+ 0.7WAR - Oliver 15 LF L Adam Eaton 26(in '15) .265/.343/.380 9HR 100wRC+ 3.4WAR - Oliver 15 CF L Coby Rasmus 28(in '15) .243/.313/.451 26HR 107wRC+ 3.2WAR - Oliver 15 RF R Avisail Garcia 23(in '15) .289/.333/.448 18HR 112wRC+ 3.3WAR - Oliver 15 OF L Jordan Danks 28(in '15) .236/.321/.378 4 HR 91wRC+ 0.4WAR - Oliver 15 UT S Leury Garcia 24(in '15) .258/.307/.360 2HR 81wRC+ 0.6WAR - Oliver 15 UT L Conor Gillaspie 27(in '15) .248/.314/.402 5HR 92wRC+ 0.4WAR - Oliver 15 C S Adrian Nieto 25(in '15) .229/.305/.356 3HR 80wRC+ 0.4WAR - Oliver 15 SP L Chris Sale 26(in '15) 4.1WAR - Oliver 15 SP L Jose Quintana 26(in '15) 3WAR - Oliver 15 SP R Erik Johnson 25(in '15) 1.2WAR - Oliver 15 SP L John Danks 30(in '15) 0.6WAR - Oliver 15 I think our bullpen will be capable of producing 3WAR, last year alone we produced 5.7WAR cumulatively with the likes of Leesman, Troncoso, Heath & Axelrod dragging it down to tune of -0.3 each. Add it all up and we're at 37.3WAR with out the addition of another starter. This projection assumes we land Grandal, Sign Rasmus in the off season, Abreu repeats his projection for '14 and that Carlos Sanchez develops into an Erik Aybar type of player (which i personally believe he can, he's got a great hit tool and i think people are sleeping on his this offseason in prospect lists, I think both he and thompson really break out this year.) Personally I think the sox compete in '15 and our system gets a significant boost after we move through De Aza, Ramirez, Beckham and Dunn in addition to the likes of Jones and the other relief core mid season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lasttriptotulsa Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 QUOTE (beautox @ Feb 5, 2014 -> 06:00 AM) Yes I think this core can win and as everyone knows once your in the post season its a crap shoot. On average you need about 45WAR to have a solid playoff run but you only need about 40 to have a shot at the WC. Lets take a look at what oliver says projecting for '15 and not taking into account our upcoming season. Side note: I was nothing short of amazed seeing Hahn pick up eaton and davidson after i was hoping something of that nature would occur during the trade deadline last season. Which brings me to thinking that we eventually land Grandal this trade deadline or next offseason. I think the padres make a run at the dodgers in the west and will need some more depth to pull it together as the season progresses. DH R Dayan Viciedo 26(in '15) .257/.307/.412 34HR 94wRC+ 0.5WAR - Oliver 15 C S Yasmani Grandal 26(in '15) .250/.353/.387 10HR 112wRC+ 3.8WAR - Oliver 15 1B R Jose Abreu 28(in '15) .270/.334/.465 25HR 122wRC+ 2.2WAR - Fans(19) 2B R Marcus Semien 24(in '15) .236/.309/.404 19HR 93wRC+ 2.9 - Oliver 15 SS S Carlos Sanchez 22(in '15) .312/.353/.423 5HR 105wRC+ 3.6 - Aybar '09 3B R Matt Davidson 24(in '15) .215/.288/.390 22HR 82wRC+ 0.7WAR - Oliver 15 LF L Adam Eaton 26(in '15) .265/.343/.380 9HR 100wRC+ 3.4WAR - Oliver 15 CF L Coby Rasmus 28(in '15) .243/.313/.451 26HR 107wRC+ 3.2WAR - Oliver 15 RF R Avisail Garcia 23(in '15) .289/.333/.448 18HR 112wRC+ 3.3WAR - Oliver 15 OF L Jordan Danks 28(in '15) .236/.321/.378 4 HR 91wRC+ 0.4WAR - Oliver 15 UT S Leury Garcia 24(in '15) .258/.307/.360 2HR 81wRC+ 0.6WAR - Oliver 15 UT L Conor Gillaspie 27(in '15) .248/.314/.402 5HR 92wRC+ 0.4WAR - Oliver 15 C S Adrian Nieto 25(in '15) .229/.305/.356 3HR 80wRC+ 0.4WAR - Oliver 15 SP L Chris Sale 26(in '15) 4.1WAR - Oliver 15 SP L Jose Quintana 26(in '15) 3WAR - Oliver 15 SP R Erik Johnson 25(in '15) 1.2WAR - Oliver 15 SP L John Danks 30(in '15) 0.6WAR - Oliver 15 I think our bullpen will be capable of producing 3WAR, last year alone we produced 5.7WAR cumulatively with the likes of Leesman, Troncoso, Heath & Axelrod dragging it down to tune of -0.3 each. Add it all up and we're at 37.3WAR with out the addition of another starter. This projection assumes we land Grandal, Sign Rasmus in the off season, Abreu repeats his projection for '14 and that Carlos Sanchez develops into an Erik Aybar type of player (which i personally believe he can, he's got a great hit tool and i think people are sleeping on his this offseason in prospect lists, I think both he and thompson really break out this year.) Personally I think the sox compete in '15 and our system gets a significant boost after we move through De Aza, Ramirez, Beckham and Dunn in addition to the likes of Jones and the other relief core mid season. Good post, but the numbers for Viciedo just don't add up. There is really no way that he could hit .257 with 34 HRs and end up with a .412 SLG. Assuming he ends up around the 505 ABs he had in 2012, he would end up with 130 hits. Even if the rest of his hits were all singles, he would end up with a .459 SLG. I would say a much more realistic SLG for Viciedo if he hit .257 with 34 HRS would be about .100 higher at .517 or so. That would be 34 HR, 25 2B, and 2 3B. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted February 5, 2014 Author Share Posted February 5, 2014 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Feb 4, 2014 -> 08:52 PM) WHEN a worthwhile player shows up on the market. They didn't get the player though and have a 30-year history of not spending at the top of the free agent market. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Feb 5, 2014 -> 11:20 AM) They didn't get the player though and have a 30-year history of not spending at the top of the free agent market. That's probably a good thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Feb 4, 2014 -> 08:54 PM) Yes, meaning Tanakas and Abreus, not Ervin Santanas. #Threadwin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted February 5, 2014 Author Share Posted February 5, 2014 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Feb 5, 2014 -> 11:23 AM) That's probably a good thing. You can't argue with their results. Oh wait . . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Feb 5, 2014 -> 11:20 AM) They didn't get the player though and have a 30-year history of not spending at the top of the free agent market. Jose Abreu sez Hola Marty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted February 5, 2014 Author Share Posted February 5, 2014 QUOTE (lasttriptotulsa @ Feb 4, 2014 -> 09:05 PM) Dynamite drop in Marty. I don't think bidding on a player that you ultimately do not get is worthy of credit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted February 5, 2014 Author Share Posted February 5, 2014 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Feb 5, 2014 -> 11:25 AM) Jose Abreu sez Hola Marty. Jose Abreu was not at the top of the market. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Feb 5, 2014 -> 11:25 AM) You can't argue with their results. Oh wait . . . I'm sure as hell glad the Sox aren't stuck with Pujols, Werth, Hamilton, Rodriguez, Mauer, or Zito right now. Those contracts back fire more often than they work out. Need proof? Look at this list of jagoffs. http://www.baseballprospectus.com/compensa...t-paid-players/ How many of those players can you say "I really want that considering the cost per year"? That's what you are paying for. You DON'T want to be the highest bidder because you end up with terrible contracts. I would say the failure rate of those contracts runs around 70-80%. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Feb 5, 2014 -> 12:25 PM) You can't argue with their results. Oh wait . . . I want you to be the next Royals GM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lasttriptotulsa Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Feb 5, 2014 -> 11:28 AM) I don't think bidding on a player that you ultimately do not get is worthy of credit. So you criticize the team for not spending the money that they supposedly have, but when they do try to spend it, it doesn't count. Makes a lot of sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 QUOTE (lasttriptotulsa @ Feb 5, 2014 -> 11:46 AM) So you criticize the team for not spending the money that they supposedly have, but when they do try to spend it, it doesn't count. Makes a lot of sense. Welcome to Martyland. Population:1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Feb 5, 2014 -> 12:29 PM) Jose Abreu was not at the top of the market. Biggest international contract in the history of baseball at the time of the signing, currently second biggest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Feb 5, 2014 -> 12:28 PM) I don't think bidding on a player that you ultimately do not get is worthy of credit. So you're preferred strategy is "I want this player, so I will spend whatever it takes to get him, even if that means paying him more than I think he's worth"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lasttriptotulsa Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Feb 5, 2014 -> 11:50 AM) Biggest international contract in the history of baseball at the time of the signing, currently second biggest. Yea, but Marty said he doesn't count so he doesn't count. Okay? He doesn't need a reason, what he says, goes. Got it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted February 5, 2014 Author Share Posted February 5, 2014 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Feb 5, 2014 -> 11:47 AM) Welcome to Martyland. Population:1 "We bid for a player. Yippee!!!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted February 5, 2014 Author Share Posted February 5, 2014 QUOTE (lasttriptotulsa @ Feb 5, 2014 -> 11:46 AM) So you criticize the team for not spending the money that they supposedly have, but when they do try to spend it, it doesn't count. Makes a lot of sense. If they offered $155M and lost, maybe they get credit. Offering anywhere from $35-55M less, no credit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lasttriptotulsa Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Feb 5, 2014 -> 12:14 PM) If they offered $155M and lost, maybe they get credit. Offering anywhere from $35-55M less, no credit. So they make the smart business move for the White Sox and back off when the bidding gets out of hand and they receive no credit for that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 QUOTE (lasttriptotulsa @ Feb 5, 2014 -> 12:17 PM) So they make the smart business move for the White Sox and back off when the bidding gets out of hand and they receive no credit for that? Forget it, he's rolling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Feb 5, 2014 -> 01:22 PM) Forget it, he's rolling. You're missing a t. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonard Zelig Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 QUOTE (lasttriptotulsa @ Feb 5, 2014 -> 12:17 PM) So they make the smart business move for the White Sox and back off when the bidding gets out of hand and they receive no credit for that? Weren't the bids supposedly secret? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted February 5, 2014 Author Share Posted February 5, 2014 QUOTE (lasttriptotulsa @ Feb 5, 2014 -> 12:17 PM) So they make the smart business move for the White Sox and back off when the bidding gets out of hand and they receive no credit for that? Either the great contract guy Hahn misread the market or the bid was a publicity move. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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