Paulino apparently ahead of Rienzo

[Marty34]

I think he could definitely benefit from more seasoning in AAA. I think it would be more worthwhile getting him starts there than as the swing man.

 

He'll be 26 y.o. this season meaning it's time for him to show he can get MLB hitters out and since Paulino is blocking him in the rotation he should have a spot in the pen.

[shakes]

Yes I agree. He's not going to throw anything by any good hitters though right? Dude needs to refine devastating corner control...until he just feasts on AAA. I hope he forces his way up sometime this year instead of breaking camp with the team because he was the best of a pile of s***.

 

His stuff is probably good enough. His command is not. That can always be improved and usually the best way is to get innings. Give him one more crack at starting this season otherwise he is probably a bullpen arm.

[southsider2k5]

His stuff is probably good enough. His command is not. That can always be improved and usually the best way is to get innings. Give him one more crack at starting this season otherwise he is probably a bullpen arm.

 

Winner.

[BlackSox13]

Leave Rienzo at AAA and if Paulino struggles or gets hurt Rienzo can be called up, this way Rienzo's arm is stretched out.

[GreenSox]

I wouldn't mind him in the pen, working with Coop and getting some middle innings. That will help his development. I certainly wouldn't give up on him as a starter either but major league pen work is good prep for eventual starting.

Charlotte would be fine too.

I do hope we have a couple of young guys in the pen this year.

[Marty34]

Leave Rienzo at AAA and if Paulino struggles or gets hurt Rienzo can be called up, this way Rienzo's arm is stretched out.

 

He can stretch his arm out in the majors we aren't winning anything this year, it doesn't matter if it takes him three starts.

[Balta1701]

He can stretch his arm out in the majors we aren't winning anything this year, it doesn't matter if it takes him three starts.

Except for the potential benefit of having him throw 150+ innings this year on the chance he does earn a 2015 rotation spot and needs to be strong enough to throw 200.

[Marty34]

Except for the potential benefit of having him throw 150+ innings this year on the chance he does earn a 2015 rotation spot and needs to be strong enough to throw 200.

 

That's ok. I think the best place to break a pitcher in is via the pen. When in doubt look to Earl Weaver.

[Balta1701]

That's ok. I think the best place to break a pitcher in is via the pen. When in doubt look to Earl Weaver.

And, as you can probably expect, I totally, fundamentally disagree with this concept. I think its the exact opposite of how you should break a starting pitcher into the big leagues, I think it hurts more guys than it helps, and I think it's only a special player who can do that without serious problems.

[witesoxfan]

He can stretch his arm out in the majors we aren't winning anything this year, it doesn't matter if it takes him three starts.

 

This statement contradicts itself. You don't stretch an arm out by throwing in the pen; on the contrary, you (for lack of a better term) shrink the arm by putting it in the pen.

 

He's 26 and has a chance to be a useful pitcher, but has only pitched about 2/3 of a season at AAA. Using him in the minors as a starter to help him get a better feel for his stuff is not going to end the world, especially with as many talented (though not necessarily proven) arms that the Sox have at the MLB level.

[Eminor3rd]

That's ok. I think the best place to break a pitcher in is via the pen. When in doubt look to Earl Weaver.

 

Why do you think that? Are you not concerned for his conditioning? Do you remember how bad Sale/Quintana/Santiago all tired out toward the end of the season right after being converted from the pen?

[Dick Allen]

And, as you can probably expect, I totally, fundamentally disagree with this concept. I think its the exact opposite of how you should break a starting pitcher into the big leagues, I think it hurts more guys than it helps, and I think it's only a special player who can do that without serious problems.

The White Sox most successful homegrown starters broke in as bullpen arms. Buehrle and Sale. Facing major league hitters, able to pick their spots is an advantage. Rienzo isn't in their class. He most likely is a bullpen arm, and most likely not an 8th or 9th inning guy.

 

In the minors, let him start until he wears out. At the major league level, I think it's a little different. You have to be realistic. If Rienzo was a stud prospect, sure start him. He's not a stud prospect.

Edited February 21, 2014 by Dick Allen

[southsider2k5]

Why do you think that? Are you not concerned for his conditioning? Do you remember how bad Sale/Quintana/Santiago all tired out toward the end of the season right after being converted from the pen?

 

Unless there was an extraordinary situation, such as where the pitcher was really needed in the pen, I'd rather see them as starters as long as possible. Their secondary pitches are better for it, as is their innings ceiling.

[Balta1701]

The White Sox most successful homegrown starters broke in as bullpen arms. Buehrle and Sale. Facing major league hitters, able to pick their spots is an advantage. Rienzo isn't in their class. He most likely is a bullpen arm, and most likely not an 8th or 9th inning guy.

 

In the minors, let him start until he wears out. At the major league level, I think it's a little different. You have to be realistic. If Rienzo was a stud prospect, sure start him. He's not a stud prospect.

And in my opinion, the White Sox came within inches of completely ruining Chris Sale entirely by putting him in the bullpen. The only reason they didn't was that he refused to go back to the pen.

[Dick Allen]

And in my opinion, the White Sox came within inches of completely ruining Chris Sale entirely by putting him in the bullpen. The only reason they didn't was that he refused to go back to the pen.

His first 79 appearances in a White Sox uniform were from the bullpen. There is no basis for your argument.

[Balta1701]

His first 79 appearances in a White Sox uniform were from the bullpen. There is no basis for your argument.

He then struggled with arm soreness and tiredness through his entire 2012 campaign and, when he first complained about arm soreness in early May, the management immediately, publicly said he was going to take over the closer's role permanently and stay there. He then repeatedly that season dealt with "tired arm" issues and velocity drops and I'm just continuing to hope there's no long-term damage.

[Dick Allen]

He then struggled with arm soreness and tiredness through his entire 2012 campaign and, when he first complained about arm soreness in early May, the management immediately, publicly said he was going to take over the closer's role permanently and stay there. He then repeatedly that season dealt with "tired arm" issues and velocity drops and I'm just continuing to hope there's no long-term damage.

Are you saying that in your opinion he definitely wouldn't have had these issues had he not relieved? I think it would be far fetched to think any injury from here on out had to do with his being in the bullpen in 2010-2011.

[Eminor3rd]

Are you saying that in your opinion he definitely wouldn't have had these issues had he not relieved? I think it would be far fetched to think any injury from here on out had to do with his being in the bullpen in 2010-2011.

 

I don't think it's far-fetched to assume that major shifts in workout, routine, and conditioning would have a detrimental impact to the health of a pitcher's arm.

[Dick Allen]

I don't think it's far-fetched to assume that major shifts in workout, routine, and conditioning would have a detrimental impact to the health of a pitcher's arm.

He made it through 2012 and 2013 and now is on the same routine. I think it would be very far-fetched to say if he had been a starter in 2010-2011 he wouldn't have been injured if he goes down at this point. If you want to say his relieving contributed to his discomfort in 2012, that could make some sense, but most pitchers do go through a lot of pain and dead arm periods throughout every season, even if they have been starters their entire lives.

 

Sale is always going to be an injury concern. It probably is the only reason he is even a White Sox. But you never know when. It could be 10 years from now, it could be tomorrow. Even guys with classic deliveries go down.

Edited February 21, 2014 by Dick Allen

[Balta1701]

Are you saying that in your opinion he definitely wouldn't have had these issues had he not relieved? I think it would be far fetched to think any injury from here on out had to do with his being in the bullpen in 2010-2011.

In my opinion, Chris Sale should have spent 2011 pitching in AAA as a starter for part of the year and then been called up to the big leagues whenever an opening presented itself. He should have been aimed for 150-170 innings that year, and yes, I think that would have been a very important step in preventing the tired arm periods he suffered through during 2012.

 

And frankly, a non-exhausted Chris Sale in 2012 able to get close to 200 innings without having to skip starts and putting up an ERA that wasn't in the 4's in the 2nd half might have given the Sox a better chance to keep pace with the Tigers...and might well have won him a cy young award alreayd.

[BlackSox13]

We all agree Rienzo needs to work on his command so he needs to be a starter and since the Sox are going with Paulino and Johnson , Rienzo is better off at AAA. If the Sox need him they call him up. The Sox have plenty of RH relievers as is without adding Rienzo to the mix.

[Quin]

As we all know, Buehrle and Sale are the norm when it comes to pitchers.

[Eminor3rd]

He made it through 2012 and 2013 and now is on the same routine. I think it would be very far-fetched to say if he had been a starter in 2010-2011 he wouldn't have been injured if he goes down at this point. If you want to say his relieving contributed to his discomfort in 2012, that could make some sense, but most pitchers do go through a lot of pain and dead arm periods throughout every season, even if they have been starters their entire lives.

 

Sale is always going to be an injury concern. It probably is the only reason he is even a White Sox. But you never know when. It could be 10 years from now, it could be tomorrow. Even guys with classic deliveries go down.

 

Sure, but that doesn't mean there isn't a way to minimize the risk, which, logically, would be working up to a 200 inning load by gradually increasing through the minors.

[Marty34]

In my opinion, Chris Sale should have spent 2011 pitching in AAA as a starter for part of the year and then been called up to the big leagues whenever an opening presented itself. He should have been aimed for 150-170 innings that year, and yes, I think that would have been a very important step in preventing the tired arm periods he suffered through during 2012.

 

And frankly, a non-exhausted Chris Sale in 2012 able to get close to 200 innings without having to skip starts and putting up an ERA that wasn't in the 4's in the 2nd half might have given the Sox a better chance to keep pace with the Tigers...and might well have won him a cy young award alreayd.

 

Dick Allen is right, it's far-fetched to think Sale's development was slowed in any way by how the Sox have handled him. In fact, had they started him in the minors in 2011 as you suggest, there's a very good chance the Sox do not have their best asset in this rebuild, Chris Sale's team friendly contract.

 

As far as 2012 goes, Viciedo was allowed to get 410 plate appearances against RH'ers where he put up a .650 OPS. They lost the division because they did not fix fixable problems.

[ILMOU]

Dick Allen is right, it's far-fetched to think Sale's development was slowed in any way by how the Sox have handled him. In fact, had they started him in the minors in 2011 as you suggest, there's a very good chance the Sox do not have their best asset in this rebuild, Chris Sale's team friendly contract.

 

As far as 2012 goes, Viciedo was allowed to get 410 plate appearances against RH'ers where he put up a .650 OPS. They lost the division because they did not fix fixable problems.

We didn't lose out in 2012 because of DV. We lost out because Konerko and Dunn fell off a cliff after great starts, and the two pitchers who'd carried us were completely out of gas down the stretch. DV was consistently mediocre throughout the year - was actually much better than the other two in Sept.- and replacing him with Juan Pierre or whoever would NOT have made a difference - at least not in a positive way.

 

But go ahead and keep pushing that.