GoSox05 Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 I think most if not all of those guys I listed are #1 WR, if not I don't know what a #1 WR is. I do think that term is way overrated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ May 13, 2014 -> 06:46 AM) What other elite ones? Sammy is/was in a class of his own. I think Sammy's the best receiver to come out since AJ Green, but most others think that too. You won't see people making those comparisons for Beckham or Evans or anyone else in the draft, and if you take one later - several of whom I did like a lot - you better be damn sure those guys are #1 receivers, otherwise you're just adding depth. This is a move made for now and later. Or Dez Bryant or AJ Green or Eric Moulds or Terrell Owens. Anywhere in that range, or in between, or better, or slightly worse. He just can't bust. You gave up another first round pick. That is a bad idea for a wideout, especially since most rookie wideouts don't make significant impacts. This reaks of being a bad move that the Bills will regret. They need him to be an absolute stud for it not to be a bad deal, imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 13, 2014 -> 07:54 AM) 2 first round picks for an Eric Moulds would disappoint a bit. Dez Bryant that's becoming fair, but Dez also has taken a while to develop, so that's a potential major issue if this guy doesn't come out and light the world on fire this year. If he becomes Dez Bryant and like Dez it takes until his 3rd year for him to become a really top flight WR, that's a decent pick but man, two first rounders for that player is still steep. Moulds didn't get to 90 catches until his 5th season, Bryant his 3rd, Owens his 5th. They contributed beforehand but it took most of the guuys you listed several seasons to become really top flight WR's. AJ Green was the only one you listed who lit the league on fire as a rookie, which is what the Bills appear to be counting on in the justifications you're giving. Dez also wasn't a top 5 pick, nor were some of the other guys listed. Watkins is not in the same mold as a Megatron. I'd rather take my chances on a Mike Evans and have next years first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 QUOTE (bmags @ May 13, 2014 -> 08:41 AM) Few of these are true #1s. Most of those are product of good passing system which arguable if Bills have. Of best WRs regardless in football, I can't think of one that isn't a #1 pick: Megatron AJ Green Andre Johnson Larry Fitz Julio Jones Bmarshall is not a #1? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 QUOTE (bmags @ May 13, 2014 -> 08:41 AM) Few of these are true #1s. Most of those are product of good passing system which arguable if Bills have. Of best WRs regardless in football, I can't think of one that isn't a #1 pick: Megatron AJ Green Andre Johnson Larry Fitz Julio Jones Bmarshall is not a #1? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 12, 2014 -> 08:20 PM) He's got to basically be Calvin Johnson or Julio Jones for this to work. Even with Julio Jones, I still think there's some regret by the Falcons on that deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoSox05 Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ May 13, 2014 -> 11:05 AM) Even with Julio Jones, I still think there's some regret by the Falcons on that deal. I think the Bills trade was better than the Falcons. Falcons had to give up an entire draft for one player. Gutted their depth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ May 13, 2014 -> 11:03 AM) Dez also wasn't a top 5 pick, nor were some of the other guys listed. Watkins is not in the same mold as a Megatron. I'd rather take my chances on a Mike Evans and have next years first. Because he's not a giant? Watkins is much much faster. He is a game breaker as well but in a different way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted May 13, 2014 Author Share Posted May 13, 2014 QUOTE (GoSox05 @ May 13, 2014 -> 10:27 AM) Another reason I'm not big on the Watkins trade is that it's proven you can get really good WR in later rounds. Just look at some of the best WR in football. A lot of them were taken in 2nd and later rounds. Brandon Marshall Alshon Jeffery Jordy Nelson James Jones Greg Jennings Pierre Garcon TY Hilton Eric Decker Of those receivers, and countless others, which of them were ready to be #1 receivers in year 1? And which of them did you know were going to eventually become #1 receivers? People remember DeSean Jackson and Jordy Nelson, but they fail to recall Donnie Avery, Devin Thomas, Malcolm Kelly, James Hardy, Jerome Simpson, and Limas Sweed. Who could have figured that at draft time? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted May 13, 2014 Author Share Posted May 13, 2014 QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ May 13, 2014 -> 11:03 AM) Dez also wasn't a top 5 pick, nor were some of the other guys listed. Watkins is not in the same mold as a Megatron. I'd rather take my chances on a Mike Evans and have next years first. The Bills had the 9th pick! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dasox24 Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 (edited) With a new owner about to take over, I think the Bills GM is probably not worried about the long-term. He could easily be fired next year if the owner wants to bring in "his guy." He probably figured he needs to do whatever he can to win now and impress his new boss. Also, Brandon Marshall is a clear-cut #1 no matter what offense he's in. Edited May 13, 2014 by dasox24 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted May 13, 2014 Author Share Posted May 13, 2014 QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ May 13, 2014 -> 11:02 AM) You gave up another first round pick. That is a bad idea for a wideout, especially since most rookie wideouts don't make significant impacts. This reaks of being a bad move that the Bills will regret. They need him to be an absolute stud for it not to be a bad deal, imo. He is an absolute stud and a total game breaker. He's like a bigger, stronger version of Percy Harvin. The numbers might not show right away, but he's an instant impact kind of guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxfest Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ May 13, 2014 -> 09:44 AM) Chicago Bears Nation 1 hr · The Bears agree to terms on 4 year deals with 2 draft picks: 4th-round pick S Brock Vereen & 6th-round pick QB David Fales. Great news nobody faster than Cliff Stein in signing draft picks every year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ May 13, 2014 -> 09:34 AM) The Bills had the 9th pick! I don't give up two picks, especially when you aren't a good team. You can talk about all the close games but that is the NFL these days. I don't think the Bills are a bad team and they did a lot despite having their QB done for the entire year but Watkins is not going to be one of the 3 or 4 best wideouts in the game. You are losing valuable depth, not to mention potential star power. The value of that potential first round pick is pretty darn high given the Bills recent history. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cabiness42 Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 If the Bears ever traded up into the Top 5 to draft anybody other than a franchise QB, I'd be incredibly pissed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted May 13, 2014 Author Share Posted May 13, 2014 QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ May 13, 2014 -> 11:55 AM) I don't give up two picks, especially when you aren't a good team. You can talk about all the close games but that is the NFL these days. I don't think the Bills are a bad team and they did a lot despite having their QB done for the entire year but Watkins is not going to be one of the 3 or 4 best wideouts in the game. You are losing valuable depth, not to mention potential star power. The value of that potential first round pick is pretty darn high given the Bills recent history. You are still giving up a 2nd round pick at the very, very, very minimum, and likely the 1st, because you have to move up to #5 or #6 to get Evans. The Bucs weren't moving because Evans was the guy they wanted. Yes it's a high cost, but again, wideout was the absolute biggest need on the team. If everything blows up and a new regime is brought in with the new ownership, they have plenty of talent to recoup the cost of that pick. It's a win now move for a team that has talent to win now. People are just upset with it because the Bills went 6-10 last year instead of 8-8 or 10-6 which, as I pointed out, they could have easily done last year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ May 13, 2014 -> 10:01 AM) You are still giving up a 2nd round pick at the very, very, very minimum, and likely the 1st, because you have to move up to #5 or #6 to get Evans. The Bucs weren't moving because Evans was the guy they wanted. Yes it's a high cost, but again, wideout was the absolute biggest need on the team. If everything blows up and a new regime is brought in with the new ownership, they have plenty of talent to recoup the cost of that pick. It's a win now move for a team that has talent to win now. People are just upset with it because the Bills went 6-10 last year instead of 8-8 or 10-6 which, as I pointed out, they could have easily done last year. I wouldn't have done it for Evans either. I don't trade up for a wideout. If I'm trading up I'm doing it for a potential franchise QB. Probably not another position I'd do it for, not at the cost of the future first. There are some exceptions, for example, you just have a major need and that is going to put you over the top. Watkins does not put the Bills over the top. It absolutely doesn't and that is why it is incredibly stupid to mortgage another draft pick for a wideout like Watkins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox_Sonix Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ May 13, 2014 -> 12:05 PM) Even with Julio Jones, I still think there's some regret by the Falcons on that deal. I think teams that trade multiple first round picks to move up and select a player end up regretting it later on more often that not in general. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoSox05 Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 No one has signed Colt Lyerla. What a waste of talent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 QUOTE (GoSox05 @ May 13, 2014 -> 07:02 PM) No one has signed Colt Lyerla. What a waste of talent. No kidding. You have to have been really, really redflagged for people not even wanting risk of a UDFA contract. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoSox05 Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 QUOTE (bmags @ May 13, 2014 -> 02:15 PM) No kidding. You have to have been really, really redflagged for people not even wanting risk of a UDFA contract. He didn't even get a tryout. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 Are invitations for those all set? I was hoping Mizzou'd max copeland would get an invite. He's trying to make it as a fullback. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 QUOTE (bmags @ May 13, 2014 -> 02:24 PM) Are invitations for those all set? I was hoping Mizzou'd max copeland would get an invite. He's trying to make it as a fullback. Finally, left guard-turned-fullback Max Copeland had talked to a couple teams and was weighing his options. Read more here: http://www.kansascity.com/2014/05/10/50158...l#storylink=cpy Max is fun. We should look at him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted May 13, 2014 Author Share Posted May 13, 2014 QUOTE (Quinarvy @ May 13, 2014 -> 02:54 PM) Finally, left guard-turned-fullback Max Copeland had talked to a couple teams and was weighing his options. Read more here: http://www.kansascity.com/2014/05/10/50158...l#storylink=cpy Max is fun. We should look at him. Let's share a look at him, shall we? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clyons Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 QUOTE (GoSox05 @ May 13, 2014 -> 02:20 PM) He didn't even get a tryout. The situation is sad, yet its hard to feel sorry for him since from what I've read, he's spurned multiple chances to get help. I had heard he was tight with Kyle Long, and thought the Bears might take a flyer. Maybe getting blackballed will turn out to be the best thing for him, in that it helps him "hit bottom" and eventually recover. He is only 21. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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