Sox Eyeing Yankees' Catchers?

[ShandyMan]

I think a lot depends on how much they believe in Semien and how little they believe in Beckham

[Dick Allen]

I think a lot depends on how much they believe in Semien and how little they believe in Beckham

If they believed in Beckham as little as some around here do, and thought Semien was ready to play every day at the major league level, Gordon wouldn't have been tendered a $4.8 million contract.

[NorthSideSox72]

Trading Beckham for Murphy, having Kepp start at 2B to get a groove back and up his value, then flipping Keppinger at the break if/when Semien or Carlos Sanchez is ready... that's a pretty ideal scenario to me. Similar move with Davidson could be done too, let Gillaspie hit a bit, if he completely fails release him, if he does something trade him and Davidson comes up. This avoids Super 2 status for Semien and Davidson as a nice side effect. Leury Garcia can be the utility IF, which is future anyway.

 

[harfman77]

Trading Beckham for Murphy, having Kepp start at 2B to get a groove back and up his value, then flipping Keppinger at the break if/when Semien or Carlos Sanchez is ready... that's a pretty ideal scenario to me. Similar move with Davidson could be done too, let Gillaspie hit a bit, if he completely fails release him, if he does something trade him and Davidson comes up. This avoids Super 2 status for Semien and Davidson as a nice side effect. Leury Garcia can be the utility IF, which is future anyway.

 

 

We already have JR Murphy, except we call him Josh Phegley.

 

Cervelli is intriguing for his defensive prowess and ability to handle pitchers, but does not have a ton of value as his profile is that of a backup. Keppinger for Cervelli, $25K to cover the cost of Nieto, and international slot money works for me.

[southsider2k5]

We already have JR Murphy, except we call him Josh Phegley.

 

Cervelli is intriguing for his defensive prowess and ability to handle pitchers, but does not have a ton of value as his profile is that of a backup. Keppinger for Cervelli, $25K to cover the cost of Nieto, and international slot money works for me.

 

The Yankees are not giving up slot money this year.

[harfman77]

Yeah, as it stands, Gillaspie will need to be exposed to waivers unless the Sox are planning to DFA Keppinger if they can't move him.

 

Why would this be a need? Its definitely an option, but far from a certainty. Gillaspie is likely the opening day 3B, it would seem there are other options to be sent to AAA that would not require exposing anyone to waivers.

[Eminor3rd]

Why would this be a need? Its definitely an option, but far from a certainty. Gillaspie is likely the opening day 3B, it would seem there are other options to be sent to AAA that would not require exposing anyone to waivers.

 

Bench:

Konerko

Catcher

Keppinger

De Aza

 

Problems: No backup SS, no room for any prospects to make the team.

 

The more I think about it, though -- why not wait for your promising callups to miss the Super Two deadline? Might be that's when the "odd man out" gets dumped.

[maggsmaggs]

The Yankees are not giving up slot money this year.

They actually might be willing to considering they are already planning on spending above the cap by more than 15%. Essentially trading away international cap space just is a monetary move for them, costing them more in tax. It could be an interesting option for them to acquire players since other teams do not want to exceed the cap. Instead of giving a team $2 million in a trade, they could give them $1 million in international cap space, which is probably more valuable to receiving team, yet costs the Yankees the same as the $2 million they could have just traded in a deal.

 

There are certain restrictions, however, in trading international cap space though, so it may not fly in this type of deal.

Edited February 26, 2014 by maggsmaggs

[cabiness42]

Why would this be a need? Its definitely an option, but far from a certainty. Gillaspie is likely the opening day 3B, it would seem there are other options to be sent to AAA that would not require exposing anyone to waivers.

 

If you assume that the 25 man roster will carry 12 pitchers and 2 catchers, there are 11 spots left for other position players.

 

Dunn, Abreu, Beckham, Ramirez, Gillaspie, DeAza, Eaton, AGarcia, Konerko, Keppinger, and Viciedo either can't or won't be sent to the minors. That's 11 guys right there, so you can keep all of them, but then you really have no backup shortstop. One out of DeAza, Viciedo, or Keppinger needs to get moved to make room on the roster for LGarcia.

[harfman77]

The Yankees are not giving up slot money this year.

 

Why not? They are going to ignore the system anyway, so it really doesn't make any difference. They are said to be looking at spending $15M+ in the the international market, so they are going to accrue the most harsh penalties anyway.

[harfman77]

If you assume that the 25 man roster will carry 12 pitchers and 2 catchers, there are 11 spots left for other position players.

 

Dunn, Abreu, Beckham, Ramirez, Gillaspie, DeAza, Eaton, AGarcia, Konerko, Keppinger, and Viciedo either can't or won't be sent to the minors. That's 11 guys right there, so you can keep all of them, but then you really have no backup shortstop. One out of DeAza, Viciedo, or Keppinger needs to get moved to make room on the roster for LGarcia.

 

I think we enter the season with the same backup SS we had last season. Beckham is your emergency SS, Kep can play there in a pinch as well, other than that, they won't carry one.

 

Sure they could still make a deal that would alleviate the roster crunch, but on paper at this point, your roster is:

 

Abreu, Beckham, Dunn, Ramirez, Gillaspie, A Garcia, Eaton, Viciedo, De Aza, Konerko, and Keppinger.

[harfman77]

Bench:

Konerko

Catcher

Keppinger

De Aza

 

Problems: No backup SS, no room for any prospects to make the team.

 

The more I think about it, though -- why not wait for your promising callups to miss the Super Two deadline? Might be that's when the "odd man out" gets dumped.

 

This also gives you time to build a market for the players you want to deal to make room on the roster. There are going to injuries, players that don't produce the way teams that expect to be in contention are expecting them to and Hahn can call with his assets and get an inflated return.

 

Don't throw away any assets until your hand if forced. If worst comes to worst, Kep can probably hit the DL for a while to strengthen his shoulder.

[NorthSideSox72]

We already have JR Murphy, except we call him Josh Phegley.

 

Cervelli is intriguing for his defensive prowess and ability to handle pitchers, but does not have a ton of value as his profile is that of a backup. Keppinger for Cervelli, $25K to cover the cost of Nieto, and international slot money works for me.

I don't really see Phegley being as solid a prospect as Murphy. And I'm one of Phegley's bigger proponents on this board. Murphy's defense, looking at what scouting information I could find, looks better than Phegley's - but as we saw with Phegley, sometimes reports of improvement are exaggerated. Murphy's walk rates are higher, contact rates similar, power potential similar, but Murphy also did all that at younger ages per level. I think he's an upgrade, though not a huge one.

 

Part of the equation is, I'm not believing that Beckham can even be an average starting 2B. That may be his ceiling, but his defense is decent (not great), and hitting-wise I think he'll be below average just as he has been. And, key here, he'll cost a lot more in the coming years, versus Murphy being just into his pre-arb years. As an overall transaction, replacing Beckham with Semien (who I think can be an above average overall 2B), Phegley or Flowers with Murphy (a small upgrade), and saving the club a few million a year is a deal worth doing.

 

Cervelli on the other hand, looks like a backup to me, and if you want a defensive backup C, Miguel Gonzalez is there and has options left.

 

[harfman77]

I don't really see Phegley being as solid a prospect as Murphy. And I'm one of Phegley's bigger proponents on this board. Murphy's defense, looking at what scouting information I could find, looks better than Phegley's - but as we saw with Phegley, sometimes reports of improvement are exaggerated. Murphy's walk rates are higher, contact rates similar, power potential similar, but Murphy also did all that at younger ages per level. I think he's an upgrade, though not a huge one.

 

Part of the equation is, I'm not believing that Beckham can even be an average starting 2B. That may be his ceiling, but his defense is decent (not great), and hitting-wise I think he'll be below average just as he has been. And, key here, he'll cost a lot more in the coming years, versus Murphy being just into his pre-arb years. As an overall transaction, replacing Beckham with Semien (who I think can be an above average overall 2B), Phegley or Flowers with Murphy (a small upgrade), and saving the club a few million a year is a deal worth doing.

 

Cervelli on the other hand, looks like a backup to me, and if you want a defensive backup C, Miguel Gonzalez is there and has options left.

 

Phegley and Murphy have pretty similar profiles, so much so that giving anything up of value of this point does not make much sense. I do still believe that Beckham can be a pretty good hitter, he has shown flashes, and just needs to find a consistent approach, something that I think has been hampered by having three hitting coaches in three years. If can't put it together this year, he is a non-tender guy at the end of the season. But I am not going to give him to the Yankees and let him put it altogether there. Keppinger on the other hand, while I think he will rebound, would be a good salary move for the team.

 

Cervelli definitely is a backup, though backup offensive production is a step up from last season.

[Baron]

Why not? They are going to ignore the system anyway, so it really doesn't make any difference. They are said to be looking at spending $15M+ in the the international market, so they are going to accrue the most harsh penalties anyway.

 

The only real penalty is you cannot spend next year if you go over the slot you were assigned.

Edited February 26, 2014 by Baron

[NorthSideSox72]

Phegley and Murphy have pretty similar profiles, so much so that giving anything up of value of this point does not make much sense. I do still believe that Beckham can be a pretty good hitter, he has shown flashes, and just needs to find a consistent approach, something that I think has been hampered by having three hitting coaches in three years. If can't put it together this year, he is a non-tender guy at the end of the season. But I am not going to give him to the Yankees and let him put it altogether there. Keppinger on the other hand, while I think he will rebound, would be a good salary move for the team.

 

Cervelli definitely is a backup, though backup offensive production is a step up from last season.

I don't think acquiring another backup guy makes much sense here. I think Flowers can be that and be decent at it - he handles the position fairly well, the pitchers like him, he's got a little pop, and won't be terribly expensive.

 

Seems you think a little less of Murphy (or more of Phegley?) than I do, and a little more of Beckham, so I can understand where you are coming from. I still think it would be a smart deal. Good discussion though.

 

[southsider2k5]

Not that it involves that topic at hand directly, but I really hope the FO doesn't think Semien is ready. At least give him 2-3 months in AAA. I know it was a very SSS but he was not nearly as impressive in AAA last year as he was in AA and he was largely overmatched in the MLB which is understandable. Birmingham played in a new ballpark last year and the climate for hitting/pitching is uncertain at this point. Even if we moved Beckham which I doubt, I would hope Keppinger, Garcia and Sanchez all get time at 2B before Semien. Semien could be a valuable piece, I just hope the team takes a slow, concerted approach with him.

 

I think if they throught Semien was ready, Alexei Ramirez would now be a former White Sox.

[southsider2k5]

The only real penalty is you cannot spend next year if you go over the slot you were assigned.

 

Besides the tax penalty, which is why the Yankees won't give that money away.

[NorthSideSox72]

I think if they through Semien was ready, Alexei Ramirez would now be a former White Sox.

I'm glad they are giving Semien looks at SS (based on one game so far, LOL) this spring, because his value is highest there and there is a chance he could stick. Start at the position of best value for him, move him when or if needed.

 

And I agree with others that a little time at AAA is probably a good thing for him.

 

[NorthSideSox72]

Should be interesting to see what they do with Semien and Sanchez in Charlotte. Sanchez is the better SS but you would think Semien takes precedent over Sanchez there. Perhaps they switch them back and forth like they had last year.

I think those two will rotate with Leury Garcia (assuming all three are in Charlotte), with all three getting time at each spot. That seems the smart thing to do. They might have Garcia play a little OF too, to see if that can work as part of his utility profile.

 

We'll see how Sanchez does, but one thing that concerns me with him, is that it appears (from pictures I've seen and some reports from VWL) that he's put on noticeable weight. That could be a good thing if it helps him add some pop, but hopefully that doesn't compromise his athleticism or range. Could be nothing, but I thought it was worth mentioning.

 

[Wanne]

They're not looking to deal Sanchez. He will be the everyday catcher once McCann gets moved to 1B/DH, probably in 2017 when Texeira's contract expires.

 

I'm not so sure about that. Like Balta said...he could be primed trading material. Sanchez has always been a pipedream of mine...

[Balta1701]

I'm not so sure about that. Like Balta said...he could be primed trading material. Sanchez has always been a pipedream of mine...

Given their needs we're going to have to give up solid pitching to make that work. Quintana is the only obvious name that comes to mind, although perhaps a combination of Beck + Jones might do it as well.

[Baron]

Besides the tax penalty, which is why the Yankees won't give that money away.

 

Ofcourse not....that's not what I was really replying to.

[Eminor3rd]

That last thing Gary Sanchez needs to do is sacrifice an ounce of anything to gain some pop. I would read any weight gain on his part as a big negative until he demonstrates otherwise.

 

He's another hacker with whose defensive improvements have "impressed" Yankees scouts. Maybe it's real, maybe not, but he seems like he's got a ton of the flaws that we already have in abundance on this team.

[Y2Jimmy0]

Interesting. He'll be toeing the line of his weakness and strength there.

 

Not that it's a bad thing, but we should be jam packed in AAA with MLB talent (role players, bench players, guys with potential, etc.). Especially if Davidson doesn't break with the team.

 

INF - Davidson, Semien, Sanchez, L. Garcia,

OF - Mitchell, L. Garcia, perhaps Danks, perhaps Thompson, Tekotte.

 

Lots of decisions to make all over the place for Hahn and the front office.

 

 

I think Leury will be on the team. Hahn has mentioned him twice this offseason referring to him pinch running in later innings. I will be annoyed If Garcia spends the majority of the season in the minors while Konerko is on the ML roster.