justBLAZE Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 World sits at brink of WW3 and no thread? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 Hard to feel sympathetic towards any of the sides in this one. I thought this was a pretty good primer: http://pando.com/2014/02/24/everything-you...raine-is-wrong/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cabiness42 Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 Russia has invaded a neighbor, the US President is sitting on his ass, and gas prices have shot up. I've been listening to the Bee Gees, Doobie Brothers, and STYX all day since it's apparently 1979 again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 I don't think this is "WWIII", though. This seems like a repeat of the Georgia/South Ossetia thing from 2008 in terms of global politics more than anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 Its more than Georgia/Ossetia. I think that Russia is going to back down, but they are definitely testing their power right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 I'm not sure how much legitimacy the new government in Kiev really has right now. They certainly don't have the support of a majority of Ukrainians. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Mar 3, 2014 -> 05:06 PM) Its more than Georgia/Ossetia. I think that Russia is going to back down, but they are definitely testing their power right now. How so? There was a heckuva lot more shooting in the Georgia campaign than there has been in this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cknolls Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Mar 3, 2014 -> 04:09 PM) I'm not sure how much legitimacy the new government in Kiev really has right now. They certainly don't have the support of a majority of Ukrainians. Eastern Ukraine? No. Western Ukraine? Yes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pettie4sox Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 QUOTE (HickoryHuskers @ Mar 3, 2014 -> 03:53 PM) Russia has invaded a neighbor, the US President is sitting on his ass, and gas prices have shot up. I've been listening to the Bee Gees, Doobie Brothers, and STYX all day since it's apparently 1979 again. Yes because we should lock horns with a legit super power that is Russia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 QUOTE (Cknolls @ Mar 3, 2014 -> 04:26 PM) Eastern Ukraine? No. Western Ukraine? Yes Ukraine is Ukraine, though. Short of Ukraine splitting into two, they still don't have wide-spread support. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 One of the first actions of the new parliament in Kiev was to repeal a law that allowed regions to use Russian as a second official language. http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2014-...ussian-takeover A week after the government of Viktor Yanukovich was removed from power by pro-Western protesters, new leaders in the capital city of Kiev passed a law that made Ukraine the official language of the country, irking tens of thousands of Russian speakers in the east and southeast. The law replaces a 2012 law that allowed for two official languages in regions where the size of the ethnic minority exceeds 10%. Apart from the Russian-majority regions affected by the new language law, Hungarians, Moldovans and Romanians also lost their status as official languages in several towns in Western Ukraine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 Some more longer background reads: Ukraine: The Haze of Propaganda (pro-Ukrainian nationalist a bit) Crimea, the Tinderbox Ukraine: The Price of Internal Division Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Mar 3, 2014 -> 04:45 PM) One of the first actions of the new parliament in Kiev was to repeal a law that allowed regions to use Russian as a second official language. http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2014-...ussian-takeover So we should be expecting 3 more invasion forces? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 (edited) I don't know that portraying what Russia's done so far as an "invasion" really makes sense. Last I had read, they had deployed a whole bunch of people to Crimea, but they have a huge naval base and existing treaties for military forces to be there and the new Crimean government asked them to come. Edited March 3, 2014 by StrangeSox Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Mar 3, 2014 -> 04:52 PM) I don't know that portraying what Russia's done so far as an "invasion" really makes sense. Last I had read, they had deployed a whole bunch of people to Crimea, but they have a huge naval base and existing treaties for military forces to be there and the new Crimean government asked them to come. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reddy Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 QUOTE (HickoryHuskers @ Mar 3, 2014 -> 04:53 PM) Russia has invaded a neighbor, the US President is sitting on his ass, and gas prices have shot up. I've been listening to the Bee Gees, Doobie Brothers, and STYX all day since it's apparently 1979 again. I hate Fox News and everyone who listens to them. OBAMA AND THE ENTIRE EU IS GOING TO IMPOSE SANCTIONS AND ISOLATE RUSSIA This is the RIGHT and PRUDENT move. Why the f*** do you guys all want BOOTZ ON DUH GROWND NOW OR YOU FAILZ OBAAMMA! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 (edited) Russian forces are there at the request of the Crimean government (which itself took power in a coup a week or so ago). It's a show military strength for sure, but the word "invasion" just doesn't seem to fit, at least to me. Intervention or something seems better, but really just arguing semantics at this point. Does Crimea have a right to independence from Ukraine? Edited March 3, 2014 by StrangeSox Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Mar 3, 2014 -> 06:09 PM) Does Crimea have a right to independence from Ukraine? Not under any reasonable definition of "right" based on some variety of law, but it's worth stressing that the territory was basically given to Ukraine as a bookkeeping operation when both areas were part of the USSR and beforehand this area would have been considered part of Russia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justBLAZE Posted March 3, 2014 Author Share Posted March 3, 2014 (edited) I also think its Putin flexing muscles for now. I think it is bigger than Georgia because of this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budapest_Memo...rity_Assurances Edited March 3, 2014 by Knuckles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reddy Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 I think Putin is afraid of Ukraine joining the EU and losing the free access to the oil lines that run through the country that RUSSIA set up back in USSR days. It's not unlikely that he's looking into re-annexation as the ultimate end-game... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 I think Russia is a net-exporter. They only lose access to those pipelines if Europe decides it doesn't need natural gas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaylorStSox Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 Russia's obligated to protect their armories in the Ukraine. The last thing the world needs is for whatever weapons they have to find their way into the black market. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 QUOTE (Reddy @ Mar 3, 2014 -> 06:32 PM) I think Putin is afraid of Ukraine joining the EU and losing the free access to the oil lines that run through the country that RUSSIA set up back in USSR days. It's not unlikely that he's looking into re-annexation as the ultimate end-game... It seems extremely unlikely that Russia has the military strength to occupy and pacify the parts of the Ukraine that just toppled te government. They were able to do this step because they didn't have to fight. They could beat the Ukraine in a straight fight against their army but they don't have nearly the level of resources it would take to pacify the state afterwards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Mar 3, 2014 -> 04:10 PM) How so? There was a heckuva lot more shooting in the Georgia campaign than there has been in this one. US and Russia signed a treaty about Ukraine. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budapest_Memo...rity_Assurances It would be hard for the US to let Russia take any of the land we already agreed to protect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reddy Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Mar 3, 2014 -> 09:25 PM) It seems extremely unlikely that Russia has the military strength to occupy and pacify the parts of the Ukraine that just toppled te government. They were able to do this step because they didn't have to fight. They could beat the Ukraine in a straight fight against their army but they don't have nearly the level of resources it would take to pacify the state afterwards. their standing army is double the size of ours... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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