Dodgers looking for a 2B

[harfman77]

Jim Bowden says the Dodgers are poised to move on from Alex Guerrero and get a 2B that they feel can better help them to a WS. He then lists Dee Gordon, Chone Figgins, Justin Turner as internal solutions and Stephen Drew, Nick Franklin, Darwin Barney, Scooter Gennet or Rickie Weeks, Daniel Murphy, Beckham, and Danny Espinosa as external options.

 

I'll add Uggla as an option for them as well.

 

But thinking of the big picture, what about a Semien for Pederson deal? I know Pederson is more highly rated, but Semien can contribute right now. Which side says no?

[Leonard Washington]

I don't see much of a fit between the two, although sharing the same complex makes exposure to each other's roster pretty easy.

[southsider2k5]

So if Gordon Beckham sucks so badly, why are the Dodgers and Yankees apparently interested in the guy?

[harfman77]

So if Gordon Beckham sucks so badly, why are the Dodgers and Yankees apparently interested in the guy?

 

Who said Beckham sucks so badly?

 

Here is Bowdens write up on him

 

"Scouts have finally accepted that he is not going to be the star many predicted, and if you can forget about the fact that he was once an elite prospect, he could still be a solid player who could also benefit from getting away from a team and fan base that views him as a disappointment."

 

 

[Eminor3rd]

Jim Bowden says the Dodgers are poised to move on from Alex Guerrero and get a 2B that they feel can better help them to a WS. He then lists Dee Gordon, Chone Figgins, Justin Turner as internal solutions and Stephen Drew, Nick Franklin, Darwin Barney, Scooter Gennet or Rickie Weeks, Daniel Murphy, Beckham, and Danny Espinosa as external options.

 

I'll add Uggla as an option for them as well.

 

But thinking of the big picture, what about a Semien for Pederson deal? I know Pederson is more highly rated, but Semien can contribute right now. Which side says no?

 

Wait, what? They are giving up on Guerrero, who they signed to a ~$30m contract like 5 months ago?

[GreenSox]

So if Gordon Beckham sucks so badly, why are the Dodgers and Yankees apparently interested in the guy?

I think we tend to measure him, as Bowden says, versus what we thought he would be. He's still a decent overall 2B, with some good aspects to him that I would think that teams think they can get him to improve on. Also, they probably figure they can get him cheap.

 

As for trading Semien, we're going to need him. Beckham likely isn't in our long term plans either.

Edited March 3, 2014 by GreenSox

[southsider2k5]

Who said Beckham sucks so badly?

 

Here is Bowdens write up on him

 

"Scouts have finally accepted that he is not going to be the star many predicted, and if you can forget about the fact that he was once an elite prospect, he could still be a solid player who could also benefit from getting away from a team and fan base that views him as a disappointment."

 

There was a significant contingent around these parts who wanted Beckham Non-Tendered.

[Jose Abreu]

Wait, what? They are giving up on Guerrero, who they signed to a ~$30m contract like 5 months ago?

Yup. Teams with money can do that.

[caulfield12]

I know Guerrero got picked off 1B in one of the early spring training games.

 

That shouldn't be enough to anoint Dee Gordon as the next 2B, though.

 

Figgins might have been an option 5 years ago.

[LittleHurt05]

Wait, what? They are giving up on Guerrero, who they signed to a ~$30m contract like 5 months ago?

 

That's what happens when you need to win now.

[Swingandalongonetoleft]

So if Gordon Beckham sucks so badly, why are the Dodgers and Yankees apparently interested in the guy?

 

Speak.

 

There are much worse things than Beckham that can happen to 2B for the White Sox.

[greg775]

Who said Beckham sucks so badly?

 

Here is Bowdens write up on him

 

"Scouts have finally accepted that he is not going to be the star many predicted, and if you can forget about the fact that he was once an elite prospect, he could still be a solid player who could also benefit from getting away from a team and fan base that views him as a disappointment."

 

That crack about the fan base is stupid. There hasn't been a hint of fan displeasure at Beckham. Even on here, when he gets hot and he usually does at some point, we all get excited and think the real Gordo has shown up. If the Sox can trade him for somebody decent, do it. It's tough for GM's to trade first-rounders, though. It's just tough to give up on them. If the Sox do keep him and he is hitting .245 at the all-star break, it's time to let somebody else have him. How bout Beckham for Moustakas if Moose is sucking again this season?

[caulfield12]

That crack about the fan base is stupid. There hasn't been a hint of fan displeasure at Beckham. Even on here, when he gets hot and he usually does at some point, we all get excited and think the real Gordo has shown up. If the Sox can trade him for somebody decent, do it. It's tough for GM's to trade first-rounders, though. It's just tough to give up on them. If the Sox do keep him and he is hitting .245 at the all-star break, it's time to let somebody else have him. How bout Beckham for Moustakas if Moose is sucking again this season?

 

I would guess only about 10-20% of the posters here would have been REALLY upset had Beckham been non-tendered this off-season. Nobody is happy with how he performed from 2010-2013, vis a vis our expectations that were largely set in place by his draft position, comps to Jeter and strong rookie season.

 

 

Moustakas is still more highly valued in the Royals' organization because of the position he plays...it's much easier to find a 2B than a power-hitting 3B.

 

Also, the resurgence of Pedro Alvarez's Pirates career has demonstrated the value of being patient with younger players.

[Eminor3rd]

That's what happens when you need to win now.

 

He's played all of 4 spring training games. That is insanity. I'm not buying this at all.

[ShandyMan]

I would guess only about 10-20% of the posters here would have been REALLY upset had Beckham been non-tendered this off-season. Nobody is happy with how he performed from 2010-2013, vis a vis our expectations that were largely set in place by his draft position, comps to Jeter and strong rookie season.

 

 

Moustakas is still more highly valued in the Royals' organization because of the position he plays...it's much easier to find a 2B than a power-hitting 3B.

 

Also, the resurgence of Pedro Alvarez's Pirates career has demonstrated the value of being patient with younger players.

 

I think that's contingent upon who would have replaced Beckham at 2B.

 

Even if the Dodgers are interested (which would be dumb after 4 ST games) we won't get anything for him that will solve our problems.

[caulfield12]

I think that's contingent upon who would have replaced Beckham at 2B.

 

Even if the Dodgers are interested (which would be dumb after 4 ST games) we won't get anything for him that will solve our problems.

 

 

Realistically, Semien is better suited for 2B.

 

If we're pretending to contend, we should at least give Beckham and Ramirez until June/July together. Beckham, in particular, might be able to fetch some interest if he can put up a 700+ OPS instead of his customary 600-650 level.

 

The feeling of most is that Semien/C. Sanchez/L. Garcia and definitely Micah Johnson are at least 2-3-4 months away developmentally (especially offensively), with the possible exception of Semien.

 

Some would argue he would and Davidson both should be capable of starting on Opening Day, but IMO it's about a 60-75% chance for Davidson and probably 10-25% for Semien, and only if 1) he beat out Beckham and/or they traded him in Spring Training or 2) they traded Alexei Ramirez.

[Steve9347]

Who said Beckham sucks so badly?

I do.

[LittleHurt05]

He's played all of 4 spring training games. That is insanity. I'm not buying this at all.

 

I realize he is 27, but I read it more as Guerrero not being ready for the majors in 2014, so they need a stopgap this year. They don't have the patience or ability to let him develop in the majors. I don't think they are completely giving up on him for good.

[caulfield12]

http://articles.latimes.com/2014/jan/31/sp...errero-20140201

 

 

 

http://www.latimes.com/sports/baseball/mlb...y#axzz2v02lyKRp

Edited March 4, 2014 by caulfield12

[witesoxfan]

I realize he is 27, but I read it more as Guerrero not being ready for the majors in 2014, so they need a stopgap this year. They don't have the patience or ability to let him develop in the majors. I don't think they are completely giving up on him for good.

 

Why can't they let him develop this year? They have the most talented roster in the majors WITH Guerrero starting at 2B. They are set to run away with the West. I see no reason they can't let him develop in the majors.

 

Now, if you said this because they want to give him the Puig treatment and have him start in AAA only to hit .400 there, then that's a different story entirely. They still have the resources necessary within the AAA and MLB teams to make that work without having to acquire a 2B.

[LittleHurt05]

Why can't they let him develop this year? They have the most talented roster in the majors WITH Guerrero starting at 2B. They are set to run away with the West. I see no reason they can't let him develop in the majors.

 

Now, if you said this because they want to give him the Puig treatment and have him start in AAA only to hit .400 there, then that's a different story entirely. They still have the resources necessary within the AAA and MLB teams to make that work without having to acquire a 2B.

 

That is true, but it still makes more sense than just completely giving up on him already for good.

[harfman77]

That is true, but it still makes more sense than just completely giving up on him already for good.

 

It doesn't necessarily mean they are going to give up on him for good, Hanley will be a FA at the end of the year and Uribe next season. They can take their time with Guerrero in the minors until he forces their hand and then they can make room for him or trade him off for some pieces to help down the stretch.

 

More from Bowden on the need for a 2B

 

"Yes, they signed Alex Guerrero to a four-year, $28 million deal last fall, but the 27-year-old Cuban hasn't proved himself in spring training, and manager Don Mattingly told me the position is "up in the air." I was in Dodgers camp Friday, and multiple evaluators told me that Guerrero needs extensive time at Triple-A to refine his skills at second base (he played shortstop in Cuba) and regain his timing after not playing at all last year.

 

The club loves his work ethic and thinks he will be a contributor down the line, but signs point to him beginning the season in Albuquerque. Assuming that's true, the Dodgers need a second baseman. Let's break down the possible alternatives to Guerrero both inside and outside of the organization."

[witesoxfan]

It doesn't necessarily mean they are going to give up on him for good, Hanley will be a FA at the end of the year and Uribe next season. They can take their time with Guerrero in the minors until he forces their hand and then they can make room for him or trade him off for some pieces to help down the stretch.

 

More from Bowden on the need for a 2B

 

"Yes, they signed Alex Guerrero to a four-year, $28 million deal last fall, but the 27-year-old Cuban hasn't proved himself in spring training, and manager Don Mattingly told me the position is "up in the air." I was in Dodgers camp Friday, and multiple evaluators told me that Guerrero needs extensive time at Triple-A to refine his skills at second base (he played shortstop in Cuba) and regain his timing after not playing at all last year.

 

The club loves his work ethic and thinks he will be a contributor down the line, but signs point to him beginning the season in Albuquerque. Assuming that's true, the Dodgers need a second baseman. Let's break down the possible alternatives to Guerrero both inside and outside of the organization."

 

He's been a US citizen for about 3 months and he's been in camp for like 2-3 weeks. That bolded line right there tells me how BS this entire report is. It's Bowden trying to stir up the s***pot because he's bored and it's a boring time in baseball. The only thing they'd be looking to possibly do is get an insurance policy and perhaps a backup. They aren't going to give up anything worthwhile for that.

[witesoxfan]

If the Dodgers had such little faith in Guerrero, why would they deal Justin Sellers? Sellers is going to be exactly the type of player they'd want on hand as depth. They have Chone Figgins, Brendan Harris, and Justin Turner in camp. All of those guys offer insurance as a backup or stopgap to Guerrero.

 

If the Dodgers trade for a starting 2B, I'll eat the entire peel of an orange and record it.

Edited March 4, 2014 by witesoxfan

[harfman77]

If the Dodgers had such little faith in Guerrero, why would they deal Justin Sellers? Sellers is going to be exactly the type of player they'd want on hand as depth. They have Chone Figgins, Brendan Harris, and Justin Turner in camp. All of those guys offer insurance as a backup or stopgap to Guerrero.

 

If the Dodgers trade for a starting 2B, I'll eat the entire peel of an orange and record it.

 

I think the point is that the Dodgers have the resources that they don't need to wait for a guy to "get it". They aren't giving up on him necessarily and could keep in AAA at SS as insurance in case Hanley walks, or move Hanley to 3B and use Uribe as UTL for his final season.

 

I do not necessarily buy the report either and think if they are hesitant with Guerrero they will send him down and roll with Figgins until they are comfortable. - But I still want them to trade Pederson for Semien. - I really like the idea of an OF going Eaton, Pederson, Garcia next year.