Teams have interest in Viciedo/De Aza

[Y2Jimmy0]

I'm not sure we can say they're "Considering" it, but there appears to have been fairly respectable, non-bruce-levine names that have liked the White Sox and Mariners and put the 2 names Viciedo and Saunders together. The Sox know Viciedo better than anyone at this point and given his lack of development, I consider it plausible that they might reach a point of personal frustration with him in a way other teams wouldn't. When I start seeing proposals involving him that otherwise make no sense, as you say...that starts making me think that a personal issue could very well be the problem.

 

This is one I could easily be mistaken on, because the only way to really gauge how a team feels about a guy personally is to read between the lines; looking at performance, playing time, trade rumors, competition on the roster, etc. If nothing happens and he goes out and gets 600 PA's this year, then they're still showing confidence in him. If they make a move like this, or they give him 350 PA's and platoon him with a lefty OF who is older and getting close to FA...those kind of things argue to me that they have a real problem with the guy.

 

 

Also, IIRC Viciedo was not present at that hitting seminar that went on in Arizona a month before spring training. Steverson wasn't even talking about Viciedo. I kept hearing Abrea, Garcia, Eaton, Davidson, Semien, Hawkins, blah, blah. Rarely heard much about Viciedo and I thought it was weird at the time. I don't think Sox are necessarily looking to dump him though. I think Seattle just really likes him.

[southsider2k5]

According to B-R, Viciedo is a Super-2 player, so he's arb-eligible this year but he still has 3 more years of arb-eligibility remaining. B-R has him not becoming a free agent until after the 2017 season.

 

For comparison, Michael Saunders is arb-eligible this year but has 1 less year of team control. He becomes a free agent after 2016. So, in any sort of deal set up like this...the White Sox not only wouldn't save any money this year, they'd also lose a year of time in which the player was under team control

 

I thought his contract had a clause where he could use arb early or something depending on some playing standards... Does that sound right?

[Balta1701]

Also, IIRC Viciedo was not present at that hitting seminar that went on in Arizona a month before spring training. Steverson wasn't even talking about Viciedo. I kept hearing Abrea, Garcia, Eaton, Davidson, Semien, Hawkins, blah, blah. Rarely heard much about Viciedo and I thought it was weird at the time. I don't think Sox are necessarily looking to dump him though. I think Seattle just really likes him.

If that's the case...then any deal actually going down would wind up involving much bigger names than Michael Saunders. Seattle has some they could part with, but if they're not willing to do so then there's nothing to discuss unless the White Sox are trying to dump him.

[Y2Jimmy0]

If that's the case...then any deal actually going down would wind up involving much bigger names than Michael Saunders. Seattle has some they could part with, but if they're not willing to do so then there's nothing to discuss unless the White Sox are trying to dump him.

 

 

True. Would anyone still be interested in taking a chance on Dustin Ackley if that could be a piece of the deal? He is another guy that was supposed to be really good, got rushed, and just hasn't been.

[Balta1701]

True. Would anyone still be interested in taking a chance on Dustin Ackley if that could be a piece of the deal? He is another guy that was supposed to be really good, got rushed, and just hasn't been.

I could see him + Saunders becoming a more reasonable return but there's a huge problem - we have literally no where to play him right now. The IF at AAA has 4 guys (counting Davidson) for 3 spots, the IF in the big leagues has Beckham at 2b with basically the same issue - needing playing time to see if he can live up to being anything useful.

[Y2Jimmy0]

I could see him + Saunders becoming a more reasonable return but there's a huge problem - we have literally no where to play him right now. The IF at AAA has 4 guys (counting Davidson) for 3 spots, the IF in the big leagues has Beckham at 2b with basically the same issue - needing playing time to see if he can live up to being anything useful.

 

 

Are the Mariners playing Ackley in LF currently?

[harfman77]

I could see him + Saunders becoming a more reasonable return but there's a huge problem - we have literally no where to play him right now. The IF at AAA has 4 guys (counting Davidson) for 3 spots, the IF in the big leagues has Beckham at 2b with basically the same issue - needing playing time to see if he can live up to being anything useful.

 

Ackley has been playing OF since last season, that said we definitely do not have spots for two OF's. Would rather have Ackley as he has more upside and a legit chance to put things together than Saunders. Would rather have Marlette and Morban though. Morban can step into LF next season and Marlette gives the system a legit C prospect.

[southsider2k5]

I could see him + Saunders becoming a more reasonable return but there's a huge problem - we have literally no where to play him right now. The IF at AAA has 4 guys (counting Davidson) for 3 spots, the IF in the big leagues has Beckham at 2b with basically the same issue - needing playing time to see if he can live up to being anything useful.

 

I'd rather have prospects than Saunders.

[caulfield12]

We already have 3 second basemen in Semien, Sanchez and Micah Johnson behind Beckham, or at least two SS/2B types and Micah Johnson.

 

Ackley has to play 2B for his bat to play.

 

LF, doesn't make any sense.

 

If we were getting back Franklin for Viciedo, that's a bigger risk/return for both teams.

 

That said, the White Sox have invested so much in Viciedo and they're in a rebuilding year, so trading him now makes about zero sense...unless they had a reason to believe he would be worse offensively than in 2013, which is highly unlikely, or they would have traded him after 2012 having a crystal ball in their hands.

 

Or Franklin/Smoak for Viciedo and I'm thinking 2 more pieces...not even sure what it would require to make it work, with the idea that Smoak would be the DH in 2015 to replace Dunn.

Edited March 10, 2014 by caulfield12

[caulfield12]

Considering this report is coming out of Seattle, Rock doesn't see any validity to it and it doesn't necessarily make sense for the White Sox, maybe this is just bulls*** coming out of Seattle because they may want to move Saunders.

 

 

 

 

It makes a lot of sense for Seattle, less so for the White Sox.

 

The Mariners are going into the season with 7 lefties in their starting line-up, which includes Saunders and Ackley at the moment. Adding Saunders would basically give us two DeAza's in the line-up, except one of them would be on the bench and wasting away OR Eaton would be in the minors, none very ideal situations.

 

Of course, they also brought in Corey Hart, who may or may not be able to play 1B/LF/RF as opposed to DHing only.

 

 

 

It appears that Montero, Smoak and Franklin (unless Brad Miller fails the test at SS) are all expendable. We don't need Seager as much as before the Davidson move.

 

 

 

We need a LH bat (to replace Dunn), we could always use someone with Franklin's power in the middle infield and Montero's more of a throw-in at this point...or just a "change of scenery" candidate.

Edited March 10, 2014 by caulfield12

[caulfield12]

Exactly. This was pretty close to what I posted when someone said "De Aza to Seattle?" Why would they need De Aza?

 

 

 

 

They definitely could use Viciedo, though.

 

DeAza would end up with 6-7-8 homers playing there...and probably find himself on the bench because his home run stroke that succeeded last year wouldn't translate as well.

 

If he played like the DeAza of 2011 and part of 2012, he would be fine. But what kind of player is he at this point? High OBP/good baserunning/good fielding and occasional pop or so-so OBP, more power, more K's, bad baserunning and fielding?

 

Can he really turn it around again and be the same kind of offensive force he was in 2011-12 playing just part-time?

Edited March 10, 2014 by caulfield12

[ILMOU]

We are still talking about Dayan Viciedo right now, right?

 

I understand the guy has a high ceiling, but he's no where close to reaching it, and Saunders' ceiling is just as high or higher. There is some severe overvaluation going on here.

 

Not. Even. Close. And Saunders is 27.5. He's likely AT his ceiling.

 

And we're going to move Tank to DH ideally anyway. Makes NO sense whatsoever.

 

Considering this report is coming out of Seattle, Rock doesn't see any validity to it and it doesn't necessarily make sense for the White Sox, maybe this is just bulls*** coming out of Seattle because they may want to move Saunders.

Gotta be, right?

Edited March 10, 2014 by Stan Bahnsen

[ILMOU]

It makes a lot of sense for Seattle, less so for the White Sox.

 

^

 

[witesoxfan]

Not. Even. Close. And Saunders is 27.5. He's likely AT his ceiling.

 

And we're going to move Tank to DH ideally anyway. Makes NO sense whatsoever.

 

 

Gotta be, right?

 

Saunders can steal bases, hit for power, and play reasonable defense. He has a much better all around game. Compare Carlos Lee at his peak to Alex Rios. Lee was putting up better offensive numbers, but you'd say that Rios was the better player. Same thing.

 

Viciedo is also 25, has shown virtually no signs of improving, is weak defensively, and has no speed.

 

And just because a guy is 27 doesn't mean he's at his ceiling. Plenty of players improve at that age and beyond.

 

I just don't want Saunders because I think his addition to the club would increase redundancy, which isn't bad when we're talking about really good players, but Saunders isn't a really good player.

[iamshack]

I challenge your title of "most in favor of trading Viciedo!"

Get in line behind Marty and I.

[Eminor3rd]

I'm not sure we can say they're "Considering" it, but there appears to have been fairly respectable, non-bruce-levine names that have liked the White Sox and Mariners and put the 2 names Viciedo and Saunders together. The Sox know Viciedo better than anyone at this point and given his lack of development, I consider it plausible that they might reach a point of personal frustration with him in a way other teams wouldn't. When I start seeing proposals involving him that otherwise make no sense, as you say...that starts making me think that a personal issue could very well be the problem.

 

This is one I could easily be mistaken on, because the only way to really gauge how a team feels about a guy personally is to read between the lines; looking at performance, playing time, trade rumors, competition on the roster, etc. If nothing happens and he goes out and gets 600 PA's this year, then they're still showing confidence in him. If they make a move like this, or they give him 350 PA's and platoon him with a lefty OF who is older and getting close to FA...those kind of things argue to me that they have a real problem with the guy.

 

This makes sense. I mean, the reality is that Viciedo is about 400PA away from being a "change of scenery" candidate. Everyone can see the potential, but he has gotten about 0% better at hitting over his last ~1000 or so PA -- it's very possible that the coaching staff is just saying "I don't know what else to do with this guy."

[Eminor3rd]

Get in line behind Marty and I.

 

Do we need an official club? I had no idea Marty and I agreed on something.

[iamshack]

Do we need an official club? I had no idea Marty and I agreed on something.

It is the only thing Marty and I agree on.

[ILMOU]

Saunders can steal bases, hit for power, and play reasonable defense. He has a much better all around game. Compare Carlos Lee at his peak to Alex Rios. Lee was putting up better offensive numbers, but you'd say that Rios was the better player. Same thing.

 

Viciedo is also 25, has shown virtually no signs of improving, is weak defensively, and has no speed.

 

And just because a guy is 27 doesn't mean he's at his ceiling. Plenty of players improve at that age and beyond.

 

I just don't want Saunders because I think his addition to the club would increase redundancy, which isn't bad when we're talking about really good players, but Saunders isn't a really good player.

 

Not nearly enough of either to be a real asset. Beckhamlike. Nowhere near peak Rios in either category, and I'm aware you weren't comparing him and MS.

 

I'm all for trading Tank for a real return, or, even if they're flat out pissed at him, just giving him this season, to see if Abreu's influence can turn the guy around.

 

 

[witesoxfan]

Not nearly enough of either to be a real asset. Beckhamlike. Nowhere near peak Rios in either category, and I'm aware you weren't comparing him and MS.

 

I'm all for trading Tank for a real return, or, even if they're flat out pissed at him, just giving him this season, to see if Abreu's influence can turn the guy around.

 

I think we pretty much see eye to eye on this, and I'd rather give Viciedo a chance this year, I just don't hold high hopes. I feel the same about Saunders too.

[Jake]

UZR isn't a big fan of Saunders's CF defense

[brian310]

UZR isn't a big fan of Saunders's CF defense

 

Eaton is in center

[ILMOU]

I think we pretty much see eye to eye on this, and I'd rather give Viciedo a chance this year, I just don't hold high hopes. I feel the same about Saunders too.

 

Nor do I, but there's at least as good a chance at him figuring out, probably better, than there is one of our projected catchers for this season emerging as starter-quality. Perhaps that's what this season is meant to be, in our pseudo-rebuild.

 

The Yankee's Cashman has heaped praise on DV in the past. That's a team that also needs RH power, and moreso after Soriano's reported retirement after the season. Trade him there during his next 5 day "hot streak".

 

UZR isn't a big fan of Saunders's CF defense

 

Is MS really better than Jordan Danks? If we had made the bad decision two years ago that Jordan was an everyday player, would their numbers be a whole lot different? I don't think so.

Edited March 10, 2014 by Stan Bahnsen

[witesoxfan]

Nor do I, but there's at least as good a chance at him figuring out, probably better, than there is one of our projected catchers for this season emerging as starter-quality. Perhaps that's what this season is meant to be, in our pseudo-rebuild.

 

The Yankee's Cashman has heaped praise on DV in the past. That's a team that also needs RH power, and moreso after Soriano's reported retirement after the season. Trade him there during his next 5 day "hot streak".

 

I've felt all along that this season is designed for exactly that. Yes, if absolutely everything goes right, they can compete, but figure out what you have at several of these positions. Which young guys are going to pull through, which will need to be replaced? Is Paulino an actual option or will the Sox be in the market for a starting pticher? Which young arms in the pen will break through and become studs? Next year, they free up money and can have as much as $20 million available to them without any other moves being made - say, Alexei or De Aza getting trade this year.

[southsider2k5]

Do we need an official club? I had no idea Marty and I agreed on something.

 

Not anymore. Now that some people want Viciedo traded, he doesn't.