Tyler Flowers is your 2014 starting catcher

[Balta1701]

You're absolutely right.

Then why are you bothering with this team?

[Marty34]

From the guy advocating spending all possible resources on free agents this year.

 

Isn't the best time to spend money when the team has a young core.

[Balta1701]

Isn't the best time to spend money when the team has a young core.

If the money being spent makes them competitive that year, yes. Otherwise the money spent that year would be equally well served being lit on fire.

[ptatc]

And popular opinion was wrong. (Fangraphs too.)

I was against the move as I stated I don't like the "all or nothing" type of hitter.

 

However, I also said that it was probably a needed move as the Sox primary weakness was a left handed power hitter and he was the best available. We see how it worked out.

 

This is the same move you are currently advocating where you want the best available starter based on what you believe are is the team's greatest need.

 

It's the same type of move and could easily turn out just as bad. With his track record no one thought Dunn would be this bad, even me, one of the few who were hesitant about the move. Any deal has the potential to go bad.

[ScottyDo]

I know Marty has been a consistent contrarian for a while now, but was he staunchly against the Dunn signing at the time? Not playing it down the middle? Because he's sure been harping on it for a while, as though it's evidence of something.

[Marty34]

If the money being spent makes them competitive that year, yes. Otherwise the money spent that year would be equally well served being lit on fire.

 

It's better to sign a guy a year or two early when the team is rebuilding than to wait because 1.) it's cheaper, 2.) the core will be a year or two younger when that contract rolls off the books.

[Kyyle23]

It's better to sign a guy a year or two early when the team is rebuilding than to wait because 1.) it's cheaper, 2.) the core will be a year or two younger when that contract rolls off the books.

 

Your theories on cores and payroll point to nothing but a constant roster rollover with no way to sustain success. All you do is continue to take the finish line and move it back in order to justify what you want them to do with the money that you have earmarked for spending.

 

This is why I barely get involved with any argument you lead. It isn't worth my(or anyone else for that matter) time to discuss something that you will change your mind on in 3 months. Or 3 minutes.

[southsider2k5]

It's better to sign a guy a year or two early when the team is rebuilding than to wait because 1.) it's cheaper, 2.) the core will be a year or two younger when that contract rolls off the books.

 

Unless the guy sucks, and prohibits you from signing a guy when you actually need one like, you know, Adam Dunn.

[Eminor3rd]

Unless the guy sucks, and prohibits you from signing a guy when you actually need one like, you know, Adam Dunn.

 

Exactly. And when you're talking about 32 year old middling free agent starters, the window of effectiveness is really small. You just have to wait Marty. If this team wins 80 games this year and has a hole in the rotation, you can be angry if they don't sign Ervin Santana's equivalent next year. Those guys just don't last, you can't rely on their futures.

[cabiness42]

Unless the guy sucks, and prohibits you from signing a guy when you actually need one like, you know, Adam Dunn.

 

Right, but in Marty's world, you sign every single guy who might help your team, no matter what the cost, and then you just cut the ones who don't work out. It doesn't really matter if you end up paying $100M to guys who are no longer playing for your team. The ownership group is full of greedy bastards who won't bankrupt themselves just for Marty's entertainment, and also why does the team bother paying all the non-player employees anything over minimum wage? They don't do a damn thing to add to Marty's entertainment value by winning games on the field, so why should he care whether or not they can afford food and housing.

Edited March 26, 2014 by HickoryHuskers

[Marty34]

Your theories on cores and payroll point to nothing but a constant roster rollover with no way to sustain success. All you do is continue to take the finish line and move it back in order to justify what you want them to do with the money that you have earmarked for spending.

 

This is why I barely get involved with any argument you lead. It isn't worth my(or anyone else for that matter) time to discuss something that you will change your mind on in 3 months. Or 3 minutes.

 

This is the reason you should stay out of these conversations. Roster rollover with no way to sustain success means exactly what?

[Dick Allen]

Are you implying when KW or JR said it they were saying it with hopes that Boyer and the marketing team would pick it up?

 

It's the market department's decision. I am sure JR has insight or the last word, but it's the marketing team's responsibility to pick the slogan. Let's not nitpick.

Yes, but upper management used the slogan when they signed the players. Winning Ugly in 1983 was from an opposing manager. If your ownership says they are all in, all in isn't a bad marketing theme. If they used the slogan and upper management has final say anyway, just because you don't like Brooks Boyer shouldn't be reason to blame him if you don't like the slogan.

[Kyyle23]

This is the reason you should stay out of these conversations. Roster rollover with no way to sustain success means exactly what?

 

If I defined it by what you say, trade all good players, who cares about picks, spend 200 million because Chicago.

 

 

[Marty34]

If I defined it by what you say, trade all good players, who cares about picks, spend 200 million because Chicago.

 

That's never been what I've said.

[southsider2k5]

If I defined it by what you say, trade all good players, who cares about picks, spend 200 million because Chicago.

 

Too bad this isn't a really bad movie, because this would be the part where Jerry does a cameo where he reads this thread and slams his laptop closed.

[Kyyle23]

That's never been what I've said.

 

You are right, I forgot "reinsdorf gives me the sads"

[Dick Allen]

This board is so concerned with JR checking account balance. I just wonder, what if the Yankees or Dodgers needed a 1st baseman and Abreu's price went up, what would have been the cutoff money-wise before his current can't miss, can't wait to see him in the middle of the line up would have change to the "he's never faced a pitch in the major leagues, he's not worth it, maybe when the team is a little better you could spend the money".

[Marty34]

You are right, I forgot "reinsdorf gives me the sads"

 

At least you admit when you exaggerate.

[Kyyle23]

At least you admit when you exaggerate.

 

You should take note.

[southsider2k5]

This board is so concerned with JR checking account balance. I just wonder, what if the Yankees or Dodgers needed a 1st baseman and Abreu's price went up, what would have been the cutoff money-wise before his current can't miss, can't wait to see him in the middle of the line up would have change to the "he's never faced a pitch in the major leagues, he's not worth it, maybe when the team is a little better you could spend the money".

 

Plus all of the "Jerry is Cheap, why won't he spend any money?" posts would have been ever so enjoyable.

[southsider2k5]

You should take note.

 

[ignored]

[witesoxfan]

This board is so concerned with JR checking account balance. I just wonder, what if the Yankees or Dodgers needed a 1st baseman and Abreu's price went up, what would have been the cutoff money-wise before his current can't miss, can't wait to see him in the middle of the line up would have change to the "he's never faced a pitch in the major leagues, he's not worth it, maybe when the team is a little better you could spend the money".

 

It's a natural human reaction to justify why someone didn't sign someone with "you," but had he gotten $80-90 million over 6 years, I think that's about your gray area for that. Anything north of $90 mill or so, people are wondering why he's getting a contract that big when the track records of Cubans is solid but shaky and the biggest previous one was Puig's $42 million.

 

There are a lot of other considerations in it too. He's still young enough and just entering his prime. At what cost would Sox fans have been OK with signing Matt Garza? For me, it is probably 3 years, $30 million or something like that, but that wasn't possible because the Brewers wanted him more. Had the Sox signed Garza for that price, I would have been upset.

 

Either way, I don't think the board is worried so much about ownership's checking account balance, but rather that we have stable expectations for what the payroll usually is, who they will expand it for, what saving will do for the future of the team, and how much they will be able to spend moving forward. If they had signed one of those starters for $14 mill for 1 year, then that's $14 mill they can't spend next year (or even this year in picking someone up at the deadline), it's a draft pick that they lose that they can't use or trade in the coming years, and it's development lost for other starting pitching in the system when the team isn't expected to be highly competitive (meaning they will put a roster out there that they hope will compete, but it will likely fail by the end) and there are plenty of major league ready arms at which the Sox want to get a good look.

[Marty34]

You should take note.

 

Noted. Now tell me what you really meant by "Your theories on cores and payroll point to nothing but a constant roster rollover with no way to sustain success."

 

[southsider2k5]

Noted. Now tell me what you really meant by "Your theories on cores and payroll point to nothing but a constant roster rollover with no way to sustain success."

 

Your theories only work on a Playstation... maybe.

[Marty34]

This board is so concerned with JR checking account balance. I just wonder, what if the Yankees or Dodgers needed a 1st baseman and Abreu's price went up, what would have been the cutoff money-wise before his current can't miss, can't wait to see him in the middle of the line up would have change to the "he's never faced a pitch in the major leagues, he's not worth it, maybe when the team is a little better you could spend the money".

 

If he had signed somewhere else for $68.5M you know this board would be more than ok with it. $13M a year for a 27 y.o. 1B goes against a lot of what I've seen written on this board about how to best allocate financial resources.