Tyler Flowers is your 2014 starting catcher

[caulfield12]

LOL...

 

Because they might not even need a mid-rotation starter in 2015, if Johnson and Danks both pitch according to expectations.

 

Hopefully Hahn learned from watching KW get consumed with ballooning the payroll with the salaries of Javy, Garcia, Buehrle, Contreras and Garland in 2006 (along with McCarthy as the 6th) that there's no GUARANTEE of anything in baseball.

 

The major point is that the White Sox have the flexibility of watching Johnson, Danks, Paulino, Beck and their #3 draft pick in June and then...and only then, will they know if they need to add one more piece to the rotation from outside the organization.

 

With all the money chasing after someone like Scherzer, it guarantees that there will be more bargains available on the pitching market if the Sox are willing to be patient and wait.

 

The fact of the matter is that catcher, replacing Dunn (LHH) and possibly Alexei Ramirez should be the biggest priorities. There's at least a 50/50 chance that we can solve the SS situation internally, too. The first two, we don't have anything on the horizon at the moment, unless Conor Gillaspie has an amazing breakout season and hits 20+ homers. On the other hand, it's quite easy to imagine signing Kendrys Morales in June/July after Dunn is traded, and not forfeiting the draft pick.

 

 

[caulfield12]

I don't necessarily believe that Quintana is a #2 starter, but frankly, a mid-rotation starter doesn't put them over the top and they have a lot of younger or cheaper pitchers that they want to see pitch. You can't do that if you bring in said pitcher, and it stunts the development of those other pitchers.

 

The next argument is that Paulino as the 5th is stunting the development of Beck at the major league level...because if he has to wait until 2015 to pitch in the majors, that will put the rebuild off another year, because 90% of rookie pitchers go through growing pains.

[Balta1701]

The next argument is that Paulino as the 5th is stunting the development of Beck at the major league level...because if he has to wait until 2015 to pitch in the majors, that will put the rebuild off another year, because 90% of rookie pitchers go through growing pains.

If Beck tears through AA, I have every confidence he will see the big leagues before the end of this season. Beck tearing through AA in the first half would be the exact path EJ was on last year, and he still got a big league callup despite missing a month with injury.

[southsider2k5]

LOL...

 

Because they might not even need a mid-rotation starter in 2015, if Johnson and Danks both pitch according to expectations.

 

Hopefully Hahn learned from watching KW get consumed with ballooning the payroll with the salaries of Javy, Garcia, Buehrle, Contreras and Garland in 2006 (along with McCarthy as the 6th) that there's no GUARANTEE of anything in baseball.

 

The major point is that the White Sox have the flexibility of watching Johnson, Danks, Paulino, Beck and their #3 draft pick in June and then...and only then, will they know if they need to add one more piece to the rotation from outside the organization.

 

With all the money chasing after someone like Scherzer, it guarantees that there will be more bargains available on the pitching market if the Sox are willing to be patient and wait.

 

The fact of the matter is that catcher, replacing Dunn (LHH) and possibly Alexei Ramirez should be the biggest priorities. There's at least a 50/50 chance that we can solve the SS situation internally, too. The first two, we don't have anything on the horizon at the moment, unless Conor Gillaspie has an amazing breakout season and hits 20+ homers. On the other hand, it's quite easy to imagine signing Kendrys Morales in June/July after Dunn is traded, and not forfeiting the draft pick.

 

The reality is that Hahn probably negotiated all of those extensions that you are referring to. He has been the White Sox contract guy for years. The team got below market extensions from that entire list of pitchers, which exactly what was done with Sale and Quintana.

 

[witesoxfan]

The reality is that Hahn probably negotiated all of those extensions that you are referring to. He has been the White Sox contract guy for years. The team got below market extensions from that entire list of pitchers, which exactly what was done with Sale and Quintana.

 

Hahn was the reason the Sox were able to come to terms with Boras and Crede prior to him reaching free agency. Hahn has been around a long time, since 2002.

[ILMOU]

Hahn was the reason the Sox were able to come to terms with Boras and Crede prior to him reaching free agency. Hahn has been around a long time, since 2002.

I need to get a nice photo of him up on the wall.

[caulfield12]

The reality is that Hahn probably negotiated all of those extensions that you are referring to. He has been the White Sox contract guy for years. The team got below market extensions from that entire list of pitchers, which exactly what was done with Sale and Quintana.

 

But he also knows he probably doesn't have the luxury of adding another $14 million pitching salary unless he can get Danks off the books...unless he really wants to go cheaper at catcher, cobble together DH in a rotating fashion, etc.

 

With Hanley Ramirez being the only huge impact SS, and Hanley being a bit of a question mark injury-wise at that position versus 3B, there are a lot of variables at play. We're probably not going to join that bidding war anyway.

 

Ultimately, if Carlos Sanchez and Semien are going to be your middle infield in the not so distant future, you're going to need to pick up from more production from catcher (like when AJ was here) and that DH spot.

 

Semien can probably hold his own as a league average 2B (offensively), but Sanchez, that's pretty doubtful.

 

Of course, they could always sign Morales, that's a lot more likely and short-term than giving Colby Rasmus $90-120 million.

[southsider2k5]

But he also knows he probably doesn't have the luxury of adding another $14 million pitching salary unless he can get Danks off the books...unless he really wants to go cheaper at catcher, cobble together DH in a rotating fashion, etc.

 

With Hanley Ramirez being the only huge impact SS, and Hanley being a bit of a question mark injury-wise at that position versus 3B, there are a lot of variables at play. We're probably not going to join that bidding war anyway.

 

Ultimately, if Carlos Sanchez and Semien are going to be your middle infield in the not so distant future, you're going to need to pick up from more production from catcher (like when AJ was here) and that DH spot.

 

Semien can probably hold his own as a league average 2B (offensively), but Sanchez, that's pretty doubtful.

 

Of course, they could always sign Morales, that's a lot more likely and short-term than giving Colby Rasmus $90-120 million.

 

The White Sox are not adding an expensive middle of the rotation starter unless something goes dramatically wrong in the pitching staff, while team is simultaneously doing well enough to need another pitcher.

 

[ILMOU]

But he also knows he probably doesn't have the luxury of adding another $14 million pitching salary unless he can get Danks off the books...unless he really wants to go cheaper at catcher, cobble together DH in a rotating fashion, etc.

 

With Hanley Ramirez being the only huge impact SS, and Hanley being a bit of a question mark injury-wise at that position versus 3B, there are a lot of variables at play. We're probably not going to join that bidding war anyway.

 

Ultimately, if Carlos Sanchez and Semien are going to be your middle infield in the not so distant future, you're going to need to pick up from more production from catcher (like when AJ was here) and that DH spot.

 

Semien can probably hold his own as a league average 2B (offensively), but Sanchez, that's pretty doubtful.

 

Of course, they could always sign Morales, that's a lot more likely and short-term than giving Colby Rasmus $90-120 million.

Our catcher acquisition is likely to be a net $ savings, with the cost being players, as I think we'll be going after a young'n in trade, unless the braintrust is smitten with Russell Martin's defense (best 2015 FA catcher), and I doubt that. Wheteher we keep Danks or not, we can go after the very best pitchers out there next offseason, if we choose.

Edited March 25, 2014 by Stan Bahnsen

[caulfield12]

Viciedo will probably the next answer at catcher, lol.

 

He has the perfect frame (well, maybe a bit short) and arm for it.

[Eminor3rd]

If they were sold on Quintana as a #2 why didn't they pick up a mid-rotation starter this year in free agency?

 

My thought is they either trade for another top-of-the-rotation starter or Quintana proves to be a #2 and they sign a mid-rotation free agent.

 

Marty, the team is not ready to compete this year.

 

Mid-rotation free agent starters are always available and always expensive. They tend to be their most productive right when you get them, then they break down. When the team looks poised to be one starter away, then they sign that starter. Maximize the return. Minimize the pain.

 

No matter how many times you say or imply it, there will ALWAYS be someone like Ervin Santana available in free agency. You will ALWAYS have the opportunity to pay market rate for a 2.5-win starter in the winter. There's no point in sticking your neck out to do it too early.

 

Yes, yes, I know -- don't want to waste Chris Sale. Well Chris Sale is 25 and he's under contract for many years. You know what? If this year's crop of new guys ends up just horrible, we might be in a situation to trade him. But first, we're going to try these guys.

[southsider2k5]

Marty, the team is not ready to compete this year.

 

Mid-rotation free agent starters are always available and always expensive. They tend to be their most productive right when you get them, then they break down. When the team looks poised to be one starter away, then they sign that starter. Maximize the return. Minimize the pain.

 

No matter how many times you say or imply it, there will ALWAYS be someone like Ervin Santana available in free agency. You will ALWAYS have the opportunity to pay market rate for a 2.5-win starter in the winter. There's no point in sticking your neck out to do it too early.

 

Yes, yes, I know -- don't want to waste Chris Sale. Well Chris Sale is 25 and he's under contract for many years. You know what? If this year's crop of new guys ends up just horrible, we might be in a situation to trade him. But first, we're going to try these guys.

 

Too bad this won't end here.

[Marty34]

I don't necessarily believe that Quintana is a #2 starter, but frankly, a mid-rotation starter doesn't put them over the top and they have a lot of younger or cheaper pitchers that they want to see pitch. You can't do that if you bring in said pitcher, and it stunts the development of those other pitchers.

 

It's likely going to take at least 2 full major league seasons for these pitchers to develop even if they are good. Anyone after Johnson we're talking 2017, just too long to wait when you have money.

[Balta1701]

It's likely going to take at least 2 full major league seasons for these pitchers to develop even if they are good. Anyone after Johnson we're talking 2017, just too long to wait when you have money.

So you're saying Jose Quintana, who pitched like a #2 starter last year, in his 2nd season, isn't done developing yet? Awesome. So we have our #1 and #2 rotation pitchers signed for 5+ years and have no immediate need for anything but back-end starters.

[pettie4sox]

Marty my god man are you just straight f***ing brutal. Just sit back and have a beer before you have a bloody aneurysm mate.

[Marty34]

So you're saying Jose Quintana, who pitched like a #2 starter last year, in his 2nd season, isn't done developing yet? Awesome. So we have our #1 and #2 rotation pitchers signed for 5+ years and have no immediate need for anything but back-end starters.

 

I don't know that Quintana is a #2 on a playoff team.

[Balta1701]

I don't know that Quintana is a #2 on a playoff team.

But he hasn't finished developing yet...AS YOU JUST SAID. Based 100% on your words, continuing improvement on his numbers last season, which were already good for a solid #2 starter, will make him one of the best #2 starters in baseball.

 

You either get to pick one. Quintana will continue developing this year and be one of the best #2 starters in baseball, or pitching development doesn't require 2 full years to get solid results.

[caulfield12]

I can just see Rick Hahn worrying himself sick to death right now....probably can't even go out to eat lunch, wondering if Quintana's a 2 or a 3 on the future White Sox playoff team/s.

 

You need 3 quality starters and an ace.

 

Liriano wasn't even good enough for our rotation in late 2012 but he's a 1 for Pittsburgh.

 

Jimenez, essentially, was a 2 for the Indians but is considered by most now to be a 3/4 guy.

Edited March 25, 2014 by caulfield12

[ILMOU]

I don't know that Quintana is a #2 on a playoff team.

I agree with this, but regardless of development, it's a freakin' bargain, lefties are currency, and he's plenty good already to be a 3-4 guy in a playoff rotation.

[Jake]

There are always going to be out-of-nowhere guys that put up great years. "Aces" and similar guys will always fall off the map. I wouldn't try too hard to predict the future of pitchers.

[ScottyDo]

Sorry, what's the relevance of the exact ranking in the rotation that Q ends up as? It doesn't change the value of his contract, nor does it change your approach to the offseason.

[southsider2k5]

Sorry, what's the relevance of the exact ranking in the rotation that Q ends up as? It doesn't change the value of his contract, nor does it change your approach to the offseason.

 

It's a Marty thing. No one else understands.

[Donny Lucy's Avocado Farm]

I don't know that Quintana is a #2 on a playoff team.

 

bolded above = plausible deniability.

 

If that's the case, the only time in his career that MARK BUEHRLE was any thing more than "a #2 starter" was in 2001 and in 2007.

 

2013 Jose Quintana >>>>>> every year of Buehrle's career EXCEPT 2001 and in 2007.

 

Everyone LOVES Mark Buehrle, including me. But somehow the year the Sox let him walk, they backfill the rotation with not one, but TWO lefthanded starting pitchers that ARE better than Buerhle - with both having ceilings to be even better than they currently are.

 

Go Sox.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[witesoxfan]

It's likely going to take at least 2 full major league seasons for these pitchers to develop even if they are good. Anyone after Johnson we're talking 2017, just too long to wait when you have money.

 

/facepalm

 

The Sox have a great starter and a good starter already in the fold. Danks has looked better this spring and could be good this year. That's already 3 guys who can be good pitchers, and he's also signed through 2016. If Johnson develops well this year, we could be talking about 4 good pitchers in the rotation as of next year. This is on top of anything that Paulino or anybody else may do for them as well.

 

You spin this from a pessimistic point of view quite often, and those scenarios are certainly possible. However, I think the likelihood of your scenarios acting out are just as likely as the idea that all of these guys will work out (and where you got the notion that anybody on here thought that, I don't know because no one has suggested that).

 

I think the ultimate goal is to be pushing out a team that is expected to win 90 games in 2016. There's certainly a lot that can go wrong in between then and now, but the front office now at least has some chips it can use (either for the Sox or to trade for other pieces of that puzzle) moving forward.

[Marty34]

bolded above = plausible deniability.

 

If that's the case, the only time in his career that MARK BUEHRLE was any thing more than "a #2 starter" was in 2001 and in 2007.

 

2013 Jose Quintana >>>>>> every year of Buehrle's career EXCEPT 2001 and in 2007.

 

Everyone LOVES Mark Buehrle, including me. But somehow the year the Sox let him walk, they backfill the rotation with not one, but TWO lefthanded starting pitchers that ARE better than Buerhle - with both having ceilings to be even better than they currently are.

 

Go Sox.

 

I'm not the only one in this thread that isn't sure that Quintana is a #2 on a playoff team.