Marty34 Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Mar 18, 2014 -> 03:39 PM) So you'd prefer they start either a guy who was even worse than him in the majors or a guy who has never played a game above A+? It's not a good option, but Tyler Flowers is absolutely the Sox best option at this point. I wish it weren't so, but it is, so there's no time to dwell. (I was wrong on this front too, but it is what it is) Coupled with the crater-sized holes in the rotation that weren't addressed it seems the pats on the back for Hahn's offseason were overdone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 QUOTE (StRoostifer @ Mar 20, 2014 -> 01:30 PM) Personally, I like strikeouts. With a base runner at first, Tyler striking out means he didn't hit into a DP. Where do you rank strikeouts with a runner on third and less than two outs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Mar 20, 2014 -> 03:32 PM) Coupled with the crater-sized holes in the rotation that weren't addressed it seems the pats on the back for Hahn's offseason were overdone. Almost every publication has the Sox as one of the best, if not THE best, offseason in all of the majors. He was dealt a terrible hand and has turned it around in an accelerated manner. Catcher was tough, and speculation suggests that he really wanted McCann (actually, I think he said it or strongly implied it at one point this offseason), but the rotation is full, the Sox are stacked with talented relief arms, and they have surplus depth at almost all positions. No, the rotation looks fine. If you are basing a "crater-sized hole" based on Spring Training numbers, then that's your own problem because I can guarantee you the only numbers Ventura is paying attention to are miles per hour, total pitches, and innings pitched. He's also looking at location and command, but those aren't numbers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Mar 20, 2014 -> 03:49 PM) Almost every publication has the Sox as one of the best, if not THE best, offseason in all of the majors. He was dealt a terrible hand and has turned it around in an accelerated manner. Catcher was tough, and speculation suggests that he really wanted McCann (actually, I think he said it or strongly implied it at one point this offseason), but the rotation is full, the Sox are stacked with talented relief arms, and they have surplus depth at almost all positions. No, the rotation looks fine. If you are basing a "crater-sized hole" based on Spring Training numbers, then that's your own problem because I can guarantee you the only numbers Ventura is paying attention to are miles per hour, total pitches, and innings pitched. He's also looking at location and command, but those aren't numbers. TRADE SALES WHILE YOU STILL CAN! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harfman77 Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Mar 20, 2014 -> 03:40 PM) Where do you rank strikeouts with a runner on third and less than two outs? Higher than a hit into DP. K's are bad because they do not translate into productive outs, but not all outs that are not K's are productive outs either. This was his profile when KW traded Javy for him, guy with a lot of power that strikes out too much. The only thing that has really changed are the questions as to whether his defense would be good enough to stay at C. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Mar 20, 2014 -> 03:32 PM) Coupled with the crater-sized holes in the rotation that weren't addressed it seems the pats on the back for Hahn's offseason were overdone. You really have no idea how this works, do you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Mar 20, 2014 -> 03:53 PM) You really have no idea how this works, do you? you're the one who thinks player track record doesn't matter when it comes to trades. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Mar 20, 2014 -> 04:00 PM) you're the one who thinks player track record doesn't matter when it comes to trades. It would be nice if you would stay on topic rather than turning this into a pissing match. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Mar 20, 2014 -> 03:49 PM) Almost every publication has the Sox as one of the best, if not THE best, offseason in all of the majors. He was dealt a terrible hand and has turned it around in an accelerated manner. Catcher was tough, and speculation suggests that he really wanted McCann (actually, I think he said it or strongly implied it at one point this offseason), but the rotation is full, the Sox are stacked with talented relief arms, and they have surplus depth at almost all positions. No, the rotation looks fine. If you are basing a "crater-sized hole" based on Spring Training numbers, then that's your own problem because I can guarantee you the only numbers Ventura is paying attention to are miles per hour, total pitches, and innings pitched. He's also looking at location and command, but those aren't numbers. 'It would have been difficult for hahn not to have a "good" offseason. It's been anything but a positive spring for the Sox vaunted rotation depth. The rotation will be the biggest problem in this rebuild. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Mar 20, 2014 -> 04:02 PM) It would be nice if you would stay on topic rather than turning this into a pissing match. This was meant for eminor, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Mar 20, 2014 -> 04:06 PM) 'It would have been difficult for hahn not to have a "good" offseason. It's been anything but a positive spring for the Sox vaunted rotation depth. The rotation will be the biggest problem in this rebuild. It's dry, Arizona weather and the ball doesn't move a whole lot, plus these guys are getting back into shape, working on certain pitches and locations, and any number of other miscellaneous tasks. That you are putting actual stock into these numbers - which you clearly are - is the worst thing. If they carry this with them up north and the rotation looks rough come May or June, then yes, changes will probably have to be made. I'm not saying that holes are not possible, but right now, the rotation is full and there are no question marks as to who is pitching or the talent in the rotation itself. Frankly, I still think the offense is going to take the longest. They have young pieces, but there are plenty of other areas that could and likely will need improvement into the future. QUOTE (Marty34 @ Mar 20, 2014 -> 04:07 PM) This was meant for eminor, right? No. The White Sox clearly had a great offseason. It was certainly possible for them to have a poor offseason. That didn't happen. I want to see you actually defend with evidence why the Sox offseason was poor or why there are holes in the rotation without just saying "crater-sized holes in the rotation" and "maybe we shouldn't pat Rick on the back." WHY do you feel that way? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Mar 20, 2014 -> 04:16 PM) It's dry, Arizona weather and the ball doesn't move a whole lot, plus these guys are getting back into shape, working on certain pitches and locations, and any number of other miscellaneous tasks. That you are putting actual stock into these numbers - which you clearly are - is the worst thing. If they carry this with them up north and the rotation looks rough come May or June, then yes, changes will probably have to be made. I'm not saying that holes are not possible, but right now, the rotation is full and there are no question marks as to who is pitching or the talent in the rotation itself. Frankly, I still think the offense is going to take the longest. They have young pieces, but there are plenty of other areas that could and likely will need improvement into the future. No. The White Sox clearly had a great offseason. It was certainly possible for them to have a poor offseason. That didn't happen. I want to see you actually defend with evidence why the Sox offseason was poor or why there are holes in the rotation without just saying "crater-sized holes in the rotation" and "maybe we shouldn't pat Rick on the back." WHY do you feel that way? Danks, Johnson, and Paulino = crater-sized holes in the rotation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harfman77 Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Mar 20, 2014 -> 04:20 PM) Danks, Johnson, and Paulino = crater-sized holes in the rotation. Wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Mar 20, 2014 -> 04:20 PM) Danks, Johnson, and Paulino = crater-sized holes in the rotation. Thank you for your evidence. Here's mine, according to the Marty school of providing evidence Danks, Johnson, and Paulino ≠ crater-sized holes in the rotation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Mar 20, 2014 -> 04:48 PM) Thank you for your evidence. Here's mine, according to the Marty school of providing evidence Danks, Johnson, and Paulino ≠ crater-sized holes in the rotation. Lawyered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Mar 20, 2014 -> 04:48 PM) Thank you for your evidence. Here's mine, according to the Marty school of providing evidence Danks, Johnson, and Paulino ≠ crater-sized holes in the rotation. What evidence do you want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flavum Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 As far as we can tell, Sale, Danks, Paulino, Quintana, and Johnson all have healthy arms, and ready to go. Don't judge a damn thing about pitchers spring training in Arizona. Arizona is a terrible place for spring training competition. You set your roster before you get there, and if they stay healthy, you go north with that team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Mar 20, 2014 -> 03:00 PM) you're the one who thinks player track record doesn't matter when it comes to trades. What? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 QUOTE (flavum @ Mar 20, 2014 -> 05:02 PM) As far as we can tell, Sale, Danks, Paulino, Quintana, and Johnson all have healthy arms, and ready to go. Don't judge a damn thing about pitchers spring training in Arizona. Arizona is a terrible place for spring training competition. You set your roster before you get there, and if they stay healthy, you go north with that team. on the bright side, that means we can call Jordan Danks a surefire All-Star because he leads the Cactus league in homers, amiright? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Mar 20, 2014 -> 03:20 PM) Danks, Johnson, and Paulino = crater-sized holes in the rotation. It's not a f***ing video game Marty. You can't just be like "OH OUR TEAM WAS BAD LET'S MAKE A TRADE. I WANT CLAYTON KERSHAW AND FELIX HERNANDEZ. WE NEED PITCHING SO LET'S SIGN ALL THE BEST PITCHERS. DOESNT MATTER MONEY BECAUSE JERRY REINSDORF IS RICH" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 QUOTE (flavum @ Mar 20, 2014 -> 05:02 PM) As far as we can tell, Sale, Danks, Paulino, Quintana, and Johnson all have healthy arms, and ready to go. Don't judge a damn thing about pitchers spring training in Arizona. Arizona is a terrible place for spring training competition. You set your roster before you get there, and if they stay healthy, you go north with that team. Seeing the numbers out of AZ reinforces my belief that Hahn did not do enough to address the rotation this winter. It's a long season for pitchers when your home park is the Cell, if nothing else they needed an innings-eater. Also, it's an embarrassment to this rebuild that Axelrod was even invited to camp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Mar 20, 2014 -> 05:10 PM) It's not a f***ing video game Marty. You can't just be like "OH OUR TEAM WAS BAD LET'S MAKE A TRADE. I WANT CLAYTON KERSHAW AND FELIX HERNANDEZ. WE NEED PITCHING SO LET'S SIGN ALL THE BEST PITCHERS. DOESNT MATTER MONEY BECAUSE JERRY REINSDORF IS RICH" Jerry Reinsdorf is rich enough to afford a better rotation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Mar 20, 2014 -> 05:10 PM) It's not a f***ing video game Marty. You can't just be like "OH OUR TEAM WAS BAD LET'S MAKE A TRADE. I WANT CLAYTON KERSHAW AND FELIX HERNANDEZ. WE NEED PITCHING SO LET'S SIGN ALL THE BEST PITCHERS. DOESNT MATTER MONEY BECAUSE JERRY REINSDORF IS RICH" QUOTE (Marty34 @ Mar 20, 2014 -> 05:26 PM) Jerry Reinsdorf is rich enough to afford a better rotation. He can, and does. It's his schtick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Mar 20, 2014 -> 05:21 PM) Seeing the numbers out of AZ reinforces my belief that Hahn did not do enough to address the rotation this winter. It's a long season for pitchers when your home park is the Cell, if nothing else they needed an innings-eater. Also, it's an embarrassment to this rebuild that Axelrod was even invited to camp. On the bright side, Carlos Sanchez is going to hit .500, and Jordan Danks and Connor Gillaspie are going to lead baseball in HRs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSox13 Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Mar 20, 2014 -> 03:40 PM) Where do you rank strikeouts with a runner on third and less than two outs? I don't, it was a joke hence the smiley with tongue sticking out. Lighten up, Francis. Bottom line is if the Sox had or could find a better option, this thread would not exist. Rebuilds take time, deal with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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