Tyler Flowers is your 2014 starting catcher

[Marty34]

They tried to address it. There really wasn't a good solution.

 

Has the 2014 marketing slogan been selected yet?

[caulfield12]

You're buying into the hype machine that MLB has started to create. An MLB draft pick isn't worthless, but it damn near is to a franchise that pulls in the revenue the Sox do. It is a great cover to give a fan base for not to spending money in free agency.

 

There's something incongruous to targeting prospects in trades that are well past the midpoint in their development while in the same breath talking up the value of keeping draft picks.

 

Not at all.

 

You want your incoming "waves" of talent to be staggered, so that you can mix in 2-3 rookies/prospects with the 25-30 year old veteran core, supplemented by 2-3 veteran leaders.

 

Otherwise, you're like the Royals and having to make desperate moves like the James Shields trade in order to compete in just a 2-3 year window before having to tear everything apart and start all over again.

 

In the end, we've been rather successful the last 20 years in not bottoming out...at least until 2013. 2007 was a false bottom, and they were right to stay the course because of the 2008 and what should/could have been playoff seasons in 2010 and 2012.

 

 

 

[southsider2k5]

You like the Sox core better than the Cubs core?

 

The White Sox have Chris Sale, Jose Abreu and Jose Quintana at their core. The Cubs have Anthony Rizzo and Stalin Castro.

 

You tell me.

[caulfield12]

If the Sox and Cubs switched prospects, there is no doubt the Cubs current prospects would be more highly thought of here. I hope Hahn wasn't being serious about taking a lower bonus guy with the 3rd pick just to have additional money for lower picks. The one nice thing you get with being awful is the chance to perhaps draft a future star. If you aren't taking the best player on your board with the 3rd pick of the draft, it makes no sense to me.

 

Let's say it's Kolek from Texas.

 

The fact is that we have a lot more leverage to offer him less money than someone like Appel (the situation with the Pirates/Astros).

 

A collegiate junior already has had more wear and tear on his arm, and there's a lot of risk for regression (see Chris Beck, for example).

 

If you go to university/junior college, you're going to have to wait 2-3 more years for that big payday, rather than one.

 

And high school pitchers who are dominant tend to be riskier and peak early (the ones throwing 100 MPH already)...so they're more likely to want to take the money when it's there than bear the risk of a significant injury over the next 2-3 collegiate/jc seasons.

 

 

You can definitely make an argument that Kolek could be the best player (certainly pitcher) on the board but that he would cost us less to sign than Rodon, Beede, etc.

 

Then, that money saved could be reallocated to the type of kids like Addison Reed, Trayce Thompson, Beck, Jacob May, Danish, etc., that will improve the team's minor league depth tremendously down the line...

[Marty34]

The White Sox have Chris Sale, Jose Abreu and Jose Quintana at their core. The Cubs have Anthony Rizzo and Stalin Castro.

 

You tell me.

 

Cubs.

[caulfield12]

The White Sox have Chris Sale, Jose Abreu and Jose Quintana at their core. The Cubs have Anthony Rizzo and Stalin Castro.

 

You tell me.

 

 

If you want to extend it, you make it Sale/Quintana and Abreu/Garcia/Eaton/Davidson and POSSIBLY Viciedo.

 

 

For the Cubs, you can't have this discussion without Bryant/Soler/Almora/Baez.

 

 

They have "bigger" prospects, but we have the huge advantage in pitching and their core guys (you can add Smzardija too, for Cubs fans) are ones that are another bad or average season away from being out of the organization (Castro and Rizzo), just like Viciedo.

 

Cubs' fans think they have at least two perennial All-Stars in their group.

 

White Sox fans believe the same about Abreu and one of the three new youngsters they've brought in, with the big difference that Abreu is major league ready, so we're a step ahead and maybe more if the Cubs end up discarding their three "best" major leaguers for more prospects.

 

On the other hand, we can "discard" Alexei Ramirez and replace him with Semien. Everyone expects that to happen eventually. But Cubs fans will expect Castro to turn out like Rafael Palmeiro or Greg Maddux when he leaves the fold.

[ILMOU]

Cubs.

Yep, all those draft picks that are worthless to a large market team like the Cubs.

 

Really, guys, why do you continue to bother? When he's completely owned, he'll just change the topic, he won't acknowledge logic, and clearly doesn't read your response posts.

 

Every once in awhile he has a cogent thought, which is why I don't put him, or anyone, on ignore. Most of the time he's either dense, a troll, or a dense troll. Please, please don't take the bait, and we can have better threads.

[Dick Allen]

Let's say it's Kolek from Texas.

 

The fact is that we have a lot more leverage to offer him less money than someone like Appel (the situation with the Pirates/Astros).

 

A collegiate junior already has had more wear and tear on his arm, and there's a lot of risk for regression (see Chris Beck, for example).

 

If you go to university/junior college, you're going to have to wait 2-3 more years for that big payday, rather than one.

 

And high school pitchers who are dominant tend to be riskier and peak early (the ones throwing 100 MPH already)...so they're more likely to want to take the money when it's there than bear the risk of a significant injury over the next 2-3 collegiate/jc seasons.

 

 

You can definitely make an argument that Kolek could be the best player (certainly pitcher) on the board but that he would cost us less to sign than Rodon, Beede, etc.

 

Then, that money saved could be reallocated to the type of kids like Addison Reed, Trayce Thompson, Beck, Jacob May, Danish, etc., that will improve the team's minor league depth tremendously down the line...

The 3rd pick of the draft is no place to try to find a bargain. Take the best player. That is what ultimately will make your team better. Not trying to save $250k to give a 3rd rounder. If they think the HS kid is the best player, fine, but the bonus amount shouldn't be the deciding factor or losing 99 games was worse than we thought.

 

If ultimately the 3rd pick doesn't work out, that will be on Hahn, KW and the scouts. There are zero excuses.

Edited March 22, 2014 by Dick Allen

[ILMOU]

The 3rd pick of the draft is no place to try to find a bargain. Take the best player. That is what ultimately will make your team better. Not trying to save $250k to give a 3rd rounder.

 

I think they will, but if they grade a few of them out equally (and I mean truly equally, with cost removed from the equation), they may try to take advantage of a lower cost signing.

[southsider2k5]

The 3rd pick of the draft is no place to try to find a bargain. Take the best player. That is what ultimately will make your team better. Not trying to save $250k to give a 3rd rounder. If they think the HS kid is the best player, fine, but the bonus amount shouldn't be the deciding factor or losing 99 games was worse than we thought.

 

If ultimately the 3rd pick doesn't work out, that will be on Hahn, KW and the scouts. There are zero excuses.

 

Houston did it two years ago with the #1 pick, and it allowed them to bring in another middle first round projected pick, with their second round pick. The guy they should have drafted didn't sign, and ended up coming to them again next year.

[caulfield12]

The 3rd pick of the draft is no place to try to find a bargain. Take the best player. That is what ultimately will make your team better. Not trying to save $250k to give a 3rd rounder. If they think the HS kid is the best player, fine, but the bonus amount shouldn't be the deciding factor or losing 99 games was worse than we thought.

 

 

How can you be 100% sure a collegiate pitcher is ALWAYS the better choice over someone like Kolek? (He's certainly been the choice of KW over the years, because we've traditionally chosen players who could contribute as quickly as possible to the big league club...at least before the Courtney Hawkins selection).

 

Clearly, the more advanced player is usually the older one...but it's sometimes very difficult to project high school pitchers. It's not like we haven't done it before, though.

 

We were 100% right on Gio Gonzalez, it's just unfortunate those results came from other organizations at the big league level.

 

And the same thing is usually said about toolsy outfielders....the boom/bust rate is MUCH higher, but the ceiling for a guy like Buxton is SKY HIGH (Ken Griffey, Jr.), and the Twins picked him 2nd overall for $6 million.

 

But I can guarantee if we took yet another athletic/toolsy high schooler over a polished collegiate pitcher, a lot of SoxTalk is going to be upset.

 

[Marty34]

Yep, all those draft picks that are worthless to a large market team like the Cubs.

 

Really, guys, why do you continue to bother? When he's completely owned, he'll just change the topic, he won't acknowledge logic, and clearly doesn't read your response posts.

 

Every once in awhile he has a cogent thought, which is why I don't put him, or anyone, on ignore. Most of the time he's either dense, a troll, or a dense troll. Please, please don't take the bait, and we can have better threads.

 

The point of targeting the prospects the Sox did was to not have to go through a five-year rebuild like the Cubs and the Cubs have a better core because of it.

[ILMOU]

The point of targeting the prospects the Sox did was to not have to go through a five-year rebuild like the Cubs and the Cubs have a better core because of it.

Now, Mr. Patience prefers a 5 year rebuild that he knows our fan base won't tolerate. You're all over the map, dude.

 

He's all yours.

[southsider2k5]

The point of targeting the prospects the Sox did was to not have to go through a five-year rebuild like the Cubs and the Cubs have a better core because of it.

 

You can't call it a "core" when none of them have playing a pitch of major league baseball.

[caulfield12]

You can't call it a "core" when none of them have playing a pitch of major league baseball.

 

 

Soler has definitely fallen a bit out of favor already...injuries, temperament...Bryant, Baez and Almora (to a lesser extent) are the "golden boys" of the moment. Good luck to them in dealing with the weight of a century of losing all on their shoulders.

 

Of course, so were Brett Jackson, Gary Scott, Kevin Orie, Bobby Hill, Jerome Walton, etc.

 

Even then, one injury can derail all that, like the Twins are going through with Sano, or the White Sox with the Jared Mitchell traumatic ankle injury.

 

He only calls it a core because that's the Theo Epstein pr/hype machine inculcating that message to the fanbase and via their beat writers.

Edited March 22, 2014 by caulfield12

[Marty34]

Now, Mr. Patience prefers a 5 year rebuild that he knows our fan base won't tolerate. You're all over the map, dude.

 

He's all yours.

 

I did not say I preferred it, I'm saying the White Sox are approaching this rebuild as they have approached many things under this ownership, half-assed. First they say they want major league ready prospects, then they say they say we are not going to sign a free agent that costs a draft pick. This particular two-pronged approach is set up for failure if the goal is to be a championship team in my opinion.

[Marty34]

You can't call it a "core" when none of them have playing a pitch of major league baseball.

 

Then what is so valuable about these draft picks you are so protective of.

[southsider2k5]

Then what is so valuable about these draft picks you are so protective of.

 

You really can't comprehend the difference between prospects and core? Or just refuse to do so?

[Dick Allen]

You can't call it a "core" when none of them have playing a pitch of major league baseball.

25 minutes after you name Abreu as part of the White Sox core.

[southsider2k5]

25 minutes after you name Abreu as part of the White Sox core.

 

Fine, take out Abreu. Are you telling me you would take Rizzo and Castro over Sale and Quintana?

[Marty34]

You really can't comprehend the difference between prospects and core? Or just refuse to do so?

 

You don't like draft picks now.

[Marty34]

Fine, take out Abreu. Are you telling me you would take Rizzo and Castro over Sale and Quintana?

 

LOL. This is like calling a Presidential election based on who won Vermont.

[southsider2k5]

LOL. This is like calling a Presidential election based on who won Vermont.

 

So used the word "core" and now don't want to talk about the actual core of the team. Brilliant.

[southsider2k5]

You don't like draft picks now.

 

You don't read so well, do you?

 

[Marty34]

You don't read so well, do you?

 

You don't make sense very well. On the one hand you are protective of draft picks on the other, players selected with these oh so valuable picks should not be considered part of a team's core.

Edited March 22, 2014 by Marty34