Tyler Flowers is your 2014 starting catcher

[caulfield12]

25 minutes after you name Abreu as part of the White Sox core.

 

 

 

 

He's the most experienced, polished and professional of all the Cuban players, from a consensus of opinion.

 

He IS the core, with Sale.

 

 

You can certainly include Bryant or Baez as soon as they earn starting jobs for the Cubs.

 

 

Everything else is semantics.

 

 

Please close this thread, lol. I feel like I'm watching an argument about the definition of sex from the Clinton days.

Edited March 22, 2014 by caulfield12

[southsider2k5]

You don't make sense very well. On the one hand you are protective of draft picks on the other, players selected with these oh so valuable picks should not be considered part of a team's core.

 

Of course it doesn't make sense when you pretend to not know what words mean, because it blows up your argument.

[Marty34]

Of course it doesn't make sense when you pretend to not know what words mean, because it blows up your argument.

 

Keep digging that hole. Why again are draft picks so valuable?

[ILMOU]

Now, we're arguing semantics of what can be included in definition of "core". Oy. Cubs and Sox are taking different approaches, based upon meathook realities for both sides. The reason we didn't augment our trade acquisitions with FA's are numerous.

 

1. First and foremost: They weren't smitten with any of the available QO FA's - they were far from alone here. Hard to say how serious we went after McCann.

2. Our payroll is likely much lower heading into next season, when better FA's are available.

3. They have so many holes, and it's unclear which of them will actually need filling, but we should have a much better idea before long. We may or may not need a SP, we may or may not need an OF, for instance.

 

We'll definitely need some lefty/SH bats - Headley, Rasmus, Morales, for starters, will most likely be available, and it would be nice if our eventual C acquisition is one as well.

[Marty34]

Now, we're arguing semantics of what can be included in definition of "core". Oy. Cubs and Sox are taking different approaches, based upon meathook realities for both sides. The reason we didn't augment our trade acquisitions with FA's are numerous.

 

1. First and foremost: They weren't smitten with any of the available QO FA's - they were far from alone here. Hard to say how serious we went after McCann.

2. Our payroll is likely much lower heading into next season, when better FA's are available.

3. They have so many holes, and it's unclear which of them will actually need filling, but we should have a much better idea before long. We may or may not need a SP, we may or may not need an OF, for instance.

 

We'll definitely need some lefty/SH bats - Headley, Rasmus, Morales, for starters, will most likely be available, and it would be nice if our eventual C acquisition is one as well.

 

If they want to win with Sale they are going to have to add a couple of SP. In my view, they should have gotten one of those this year, deal Quintana next offseason and add another FA starter. Other routes will take too long and just devalue Sale over time.

[caulfield12]

Great, we're dealing Quintana, instead of signing him to a long-term, cost-controlled contract...

 

And, here it comes....signing Colby Rasmus for $118 million.

 

They're going to stick with Davidson surely at 3B, but Morales could definitely be a buy-low candidate to replace Dunn and provide some needed balance to the offense. We need some more disciplined, veteran hitters to serve as examples to the youngsters, with Konerko leaving.

 

It would be ironic if Nieto turns into another version of Quintana, but nobody's counting on that one, since he hasn't exactly blown up A ball even.

Edited March 22, 2014 by caulfield12

[ILMOU]

If they want to win with Sale they are going to have to add a couple of SP. In my view, they should have gotten one of those this year, deal Quintana next offseason and add another FA starter. Other routes will take too long and just devalue Sale over time.

This MAY be true, but obviously they didn't like the available guys THIS year, and the need, if it materializes, is most likely 1 SP, unless Coop has suddenly lost it, which I doubt. Nor would any of the available guys, THIS year, been difference makers, so the money spent on them in 2014 is pissed away, all with the HOPE that they'll bring back more in trade and you're not stuck with another Dunn-like mini albatross. AND, if you're somehow right and we need 2, we're better off getting them in the same offseason.

 

But something tells me this ground has already been covered.

Edited March 22, 2014 by Stan Bahnsen

[Marty34]

This MAY be true, but obviously they didn't like the available guys THIS year, and the need, if it materializes, is most likely 1 SP, unless Coop has suddenly lost it, which I doubt. Nor would any of the available guys, THIS year, been difference makers, so the money spent on them in 2014 is pissed away, all with the HOPE that they'll bring back more in trade and you're not stuck with another Dunn-like mini albatross. AND, if you're somehow right and we need 2, we're better off getting them in the same offseason.

 

But something tells me this ground has already been covered.

 

The timeline for this rebuild should be much shorter than what a lot of people think. It's about maximizing the value of Chris Sale, they either have to put together a group to win with him or deal him while he remains one of the most coveted assets in MLB. Props directed toward Hahn for protecting a second round pick in this instance is missing the point entirely.

[caulfield12]

Because rushing that timeline works so well.

 

Just wait when the Royals are still one or two starters away when they lose Shields to free agency and wish they could have Wil Myers' offense back.

 

The reason the White Sox are in this position in the first place was Kenny Williams' lack of patience. His best trait, but in many ways, his biggest fault as well.

 

 

For a perfect example from another sport, look at what the Boston Celtics are doing with Brad Stevens. Rome wasn't built in a day.

Edited March 22, 2014 by caulfield12

[southsider2k5]

Keep digging that hole. Why again are draft picks so valuable?

 

This of course being in lieu of actually admitting that you were wrong about the core, and are changing the subject to something that only you feel.

[southsider2k5]

If they want to win with Sale they are going to have to add a couple of SP. In my view, they should have gotten one of those this year, deal Quintana next offseason and add another FA starter. Other routes will take too long and just devalue Sale over time.

 

They need to add pitching, so they should trade pitching.

 

Makes perfect sense.

[caulfield12]

They need to add pitching, so they should trade pitching.

 

Makes perfect sense.

 

 

It's almost to the point where I'm wishing that Jimenez, Garza and Santana would go down to injury.

 

 

Because if that ever happens to Chris Sale, it's going to be beaten into the ground more than any topic than the White Flag Trade. (Of course, with advances in TJ surgery and the fact that Sale's under team control through 2018, there will be others arguing he should get "pre-emptive" surgery just to get it out of the way, assuming he's going to get hurt at some point.)

Edited March 22, 2014 by caulfield12

[Kyyle23]

It's almost to the point where I'm wishing that Jimenez, Garza and Santana would go down to injury.

 

 

Because if that ever happens to Chris Sale, it's going to be beaten into the ground more than any topic than the White Flag Trade. (Of course, with advances in TJ surgery and the fact that Sale's under team control through 2018, there will be others arguing he should get "pre-emptive" surgery just to get it out of the way, assuming he's going to get hurt at some point.)

 

Lmao, wtf are you talking about Caulfield. Nobody has ever argued that here

[caulfield12]

Lmao, wtf are you talking about Caulfield. Nobody has ever argued that here

 

I think I've seen that somewhere in cyberspace...maybe it was the arguments going back and forth about Strasburg and how the Nationals were handling him, and faulting the GM for what eventually happened.

 

That the recovery rate was so high now (compared to labrum/shoulder/rotator cuff surgery), and that quite a few pitchers were actually throwing harder than before the surgery in their second/bounceback year...

Edited March 22, 2014 by caulfield12

[ILMOU]

The timeline for this rebuild should be much shorter than what a lot of people think. It's about maximizing the value of Chris Sale, they either have to put together a group to win with him or deal him while he remains one of the most coveted assets in MLB. Props directed toward Hahn for protecting a second round pick in this instance is missing the point entirely.

We don't reach the 1 year mark of the rebuild until July. It may be complete in 10 months from now. Sale is here for the next six years (under control thru 2019, not 2018).

 

Do you even think about what you write?

Edited March 22, 2014 by Stan Bahnsen

[caulfield12]

We don't reach the 1 year mark of the rebuild until July. It may be complete in 10 months from now. Sale is here for the next six years.

 

Do you even think about what you write?

 

Being an anti Cubs rebuild/anti-Epstein poster would be a lot more fun these days.

 

Alas, not to be. Seems like we'll be having the same arguments for the next 2-3 years.

[Marty34]

We don't reach the 1 year mark of the rebuild until July. It may be complete in 10 months from now. Sale is here for the next six years.

 

Do you even think about what you write?

 

I don't appreciate your continued insults. You are correct that Sale is signed for the next six years, I was not arguing that..

[ILMOU]

I don't appreciate your continued insults. You are correct that Sale is signed for the next six years, I was not arguing that..

 

Sorry if you're insulted, really. I just don't know what kind of miracle rebuild you're expecting, or that any reasonable person would expect. I have no idea if it will work out, but the accolades Hahn has received are largely, precisely for the brevity of the rebuild plan.

[ILMOU]

Being an anti Cubs rebuild/anti-Epstein poster would be a lot more fun these days.

 

Alas, not to be. Seems like we'll be having the same arguments for the next 2-3 years.

 

I have no real issues with the Epstein plan, if that's what you're implying. It fits their situation and history. I'm turned off by his ego and his fanboy pundits. If it craters, it will be VERY fun to watch.

[caulfield12]

I have no real issues with the Epstein plan, if that's what you're implying. It fits their situation and history. I'm turned off by his ego and his fanboy pundits. If it craters, it will be VERY fun to watch.

 

 

No, just hinting to our favorite resident doomsayer that he would be happier these days in the anti-Cubs brigade.

[Marty34]

Sorry if you're insulted, really. I just don't know what kind of miracle rebuild you're expecting, or that any reasonable person would expect. I have no idea if it will work out, but the accolades Hahn has received are largely, precisely for the brevity of the rebuild plan.

 

Apology accepted.

 

As far as the plan goes, they can't afford to waste Chris Sale tremendous value (performance + contract). There should be more of a sense of urgency because possible health issues and with the money they had coming off the books they should have added another piece to that rotation even if it wasn't a perfect fit or cost them a draft pick. Try to cobble together a playoff team anyway you can while you have him that way his value can be maxed in a short series.

 

[ILMOU]

Apology accepted.

 

As far as the plan goes, they can't afford to waste Chris Sale tremendous value (performance + contract). There should be more of a sense of urgency because possible health issues and with the money they had coming off the books they should have added another piece to that rotation even if it wasn't a perfect fit or cost them a draft pick. Try to cobble together a playoff team anyway you can while you have him that way his value can be maxed in a short series.

We're on the same page on nearly all of this. Our dispute is regarding the "sense of urgency" you seem to think we're lacking, myself believing they've shown plenty of it, just not wanting to cross the line from urgency into "all-in" style desperation. Hahn's trying to build something more sustainable, but still very quickly in the grand scheme of rebuilds. We both believe Sale gives us a much better chance in a short series - that's one of the main reasons I'm in the camp of not trading him.

 

Maybe you'll feel better about it after JR ponies up to fill the remaining holes next offseason - I really think that's the general "plan". This year is about building the system, short (Davidson), medium (the draft), and long-term (LA 16 y.o.'s), to augment a competitive 25 man, while evaluating needs and seeing what can be gained in trades of those that don't fit the profile, or are deemed redundant. And midseason moves (I'll predict a JCastro, Grandal, or GSanchez acquisition) could bring us a lot closer to the finish line.

Edited March 22, 2014 by Stan Bahnsen

[Eminor3rd]

You like the Sox core better than the Cubs core?

 

I like Abreu and Sale much more than any players in the Cubs franchise. I like Eaton and Semien slightly more than I like Castro and Rizzo. I like Bryant, Baez, and Soler much more than I like Anderson, Hawkins, and Thompson.

 

I think the Cubs have more high ceiling talent in the low to mid minors, but I think we have more talent in the upper minors and at the ML level, which is why I think our window is as close or closer.

[jamesdiego]

Joe Cowley getting his revenge by trolling soxtalk for eternity haha

[BlackSox13]

Why is dealing Sale not a good option? He is one of the most valuable assets in MLB and his shelf life is an ongoing concern. Going through a rebuild with him is a very risky strategy. Put the best team around him and try to make the playoffs every year you have him because Sale in a short series is an advantage few teams can match.

I will happily answer your question once you've answered the two questions I have already asked twice. Otherwise I'm done with attempting to have a discussion with someone that only wants to point out or in some cases even make up things to complain about.

 

You don't read so well, do you?

Its called SELECTIVE reading my friend.

 

We don't reach the 1 year mark of the rebuild until July. It may be complete in 10 months from now. Sale is here for the next six years (under control thru 2019, not 2018).

 

Do you even think about what you write?

This, I believe, is selective random thoughts that stem from nothingness.