College Athlete Unions

[HuskyCaucasian]

@USWPolitical

#CAPA wins at NLRB! Athletes will have their union! More details to come

[StrangeSox]

Wow, I'm legitimately surprised by that. I thought it was a long shot at best.

[EvilMonkey]

Wow, I'm legitimately surprised by that. I thought it was a long shot at best.

They went to the NLRB. No surprise there. Maybe SEIU is smelling union dues or something and nudged them on which way to go...

[StrangeSox]

Of course they went to the NLRB. That's what the NLRB does. They also don't always rule in favor of unions. This was to get CAPA recognized as a union, so I'm not sure what the SEIU would have to do with it.

 

 

[StrangeSox]

FWIW this would just be the regional NLRB ruling, which will be appealed to the national NLRB in washington.

[RockRaines]

Wow, I'm legitimately surprised by that. I thought it was a long shot at best.

It still doesn't apply to public schools.

[HuskyCaucasian]

The workaround for college programs...

Convert the scholarships into a cash payment of the same amount. They now pay taxes and if they dont pay tuition because they used it on beer and other non-essentials.... they get kicked out.

[HuskyCaucasian]

College unions will make it MUCH harder to support Title 9 sports programs that are already sink holes for money.

[RockRaines]

The workaround for college programs...

Convert the scholarships into a cash payment of the same amount. They now pay taxes and if they dont pay tuition because they used it on beer and other non-essentials.... they get kicked out.

Once again, only private schools.

[HuskyCaucasian]

Once again, only private schools.

I wonder how is would play out in court if the NCAA said the unionization process gave public schools more of an advantage and therefor unfair competition.

[Jenksismyhero]

Eh, I think this gets overturned. The NLRB guy makes a distinction between student athletes and regular students because of various restraints put on athletes to keep their scholarship. Well, that applies to regular students with scholarships as well. Hell, anyone receiving financial aid from the school could be considered an employee if scholarships are now considered payment for services (though this guy distinguishes scholarships from financial aid and talks about a case that held financial aid is not payment). He also points out how a winning football program makes more money and notoriety for the university, but Northwestern is a pretty awful example of that, since it's been a highly regarded (and popular) school for decades despite really s***ty sports programs.

 

Also, LOL at these guys not being compensated fairly. $61k in scholarships a year plus $1,200 to $1,600 a month in stipends. That's $300k + to play football and get an awesome education.

[Jenksismyhero]

Also, he made a big deal - and we'll see how far this argument goes at the national NLRB level and the courts - about how the scholarship and football aren't related to education and graduation. He ignored (as far as I can tell from skimming through the opinion) the eligibility requirements and GPA requirements for staying with the team and on scholarship. Not really sure how that's not related to education. Yes, the ultimate goal is graduation, but I knew of guys in college that dropped out after a year or two but still received their scholastic scholarships despite not graduating or "caring" enough about the educational aspect of college. To me that's a pretty faulty argument. And again, you're talking about Northwestern, and you're talking about 99% of student athletes who DO care about education because the sport is not going to be their ultimate career.

[StrangeSox]

opinion is available here

 

http://big.assets.huffingtonpost.com/north...erndecision.pdf

[StrangeSox]

ESPN has a pretty good Q&A on what this ruling means:

http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_/id/106...lter-legal-team

 

[clyons]

Eh, I think this gets overturned. The NLRB guy makes a distinction between student athletes and regular students because of various restraints put on athletes to keep their scholarship. Well, that applies to regular students with scholarships as well. Hell, anyone receiving financial aid from the school could be considered an employee if scholarships are now considered payment for services (though this guy distinguishes scholarships from financial aid and talks about a case that held financial aid is not payment). He also points out how a winning football program makes more money and notoriety for the university, but Northwestern is a pretty awful example of that, since it's been a highly regarded (and popular) school for decades despite really s***ty sports programs.

 

Also, LOL at these guys not being compensated fairly. $61k in scholarships a year plus $1,200 to $1,600 a month in stipends. That's $300k + to play football and get an awesome education.

 

Not on appeal to the full NLRB Board, that's for damn sure. Not with the composition of this Board; no way in hell. And there is no direct appeal mechanism in representation cases to the courts. NW has to run the administrative appeal process through to conclusion and when the decision is upheld by the Obama-stacked Board, wait for an election to be directed and conducted. If the Union wins the vote, NW's options would be to contest the election (alleging unfair labor practice shenanigans) or refuse to bargain with the victorious union, which would be an ulp in itself. Then the school can raise the ultimate issue in the context of an ULP case, which allows recourse to the federal courts. Depending on the panel, I think the largely conservative, 7th Circuit judges would be very sympathetic to NW.

Edited March 27, 2014 by PlaySumFnJurny

[bmags]

Eh, I think this gets overturned. The NLRB guy makes a distinction between student athletes and regular students because of various restraints put on athletes to keep their scholarship. Well, that applies to regular students with scholarships as well. Hell, anyone receiving financial aid from the school could be considered an employee if scholarships are now considered payment for services (though this guy distinguishes scholarships from financial aid and talks about a case that held financial aid is not payment). He also points out how a winning football program makes more money and notoriety for the university, but Northwestern is a pretty awful example of that, since it's been a highly regarded (and popular) school for decades despite really s***ty sports programs.

 

Also, LOL at these guys not being compensated fairly. $61k in scholarships a year plus $1,200 to $1,600 a month in stipends. That's $300k + to play football and get an awesome education.

 

I'm not really swayed by your arguments, but I did think the reason this would fall is the conclusion of whether any scholarship is a form of employment. But I actually think you can split that.

 

I think the last line is completely irrelevant. Students on full academic scholarship get 61k in scholarships, work-study programs and an awesome education without the expectation of traveling all over the country, staying over breaks, mandatory team meetings, twoaday practices, charity work, media interviews, mandatory workouts, etc. The student athlete's obligations seem to me to be dictated by their athletic work. That they have minimum standards applied to being a student doesn't really matter to me.

 

As for this just going through because it's an Obama stacked board, LOL. I doubt he's even been able to appoint anyone. But when an organization becomes a billion dollar revenue company largely through the free labor of amateur athletes while paying themselves lavishly, the shoe is gonna drop at some point.

[RockRaines]

I'm not really swayed by your arguments, but I did think the reason this would fall is the conclusion of whether any scholarship is a form of employment. But I actually think you can split that.

 

I think the last line is completely irrelevant. Students on full academic scholarship get 61k in scholarships, work-study programs and an awesome education without the expectation of traveling all over the country, staying over breaks, mandatory team meetings, twoaday practices, charity work, media interviews, mandatory workouts, etc. The student athlete's obligations seem to me to be dictated by their athletic work. That they have minimum standards applied to being a student doesn't really matter to me.

 

As for this just going through because it's an Obama stacked board, LOL. I doubt he's even been able to appoint anyone. But when an organization becomes a billion dollar revenue company largely through the free labor of amateur athletes while paying themselves lavishly, the shoe is gonna drop at some point.

Athletes add about 40 hours a week of full time activities related to their sport. Thats quite a bit of time. Basketball as well adds so much travel time.

[LittleHurt05]

The Ohio State AD just earned an $18k bonus because one wrestler won a national championship. That's the kind of stuff that needs to change. Either give the kid something or put it back into the non revenue sport. Don't put it in the pocket of the guy who already makes $18k per week. Administrators don't want to pay players, because it will come out of their pocket. (Not picking on OSU Rock, that was just in the news, it happens everywhere)

[Jenksismyhero]

I'm not really swayed by your arguments, but I did think the reason this would fall is the conclusion of whether any scholarship is a form of employment. But I actually think you can split that.

 

I think the last line is completely irrelevant. Students on full academic scholarship get 61k in scholarships, work-study programs and an awesome education without the expectation of traveling all over the country, staying over breaks, mandatory team meetings, twoaday practices, charity work, media interviews, mandatory workouts, etc. The student athlete's obligations seem to me to be dictated by their athletic work. That they have minimum standards applied to being a student doesn't really matter to me.

 

As for this just going through because it's an Obama stacked board, LOL. I doubt he's even been able to appoint anyone. But when an organization becomes a billion dollar revenue company largely through the free labor of amateur athletes while paying themselves lavishly, the shoe is gonna drop at some point.

 

My arguments have been used in the past and won. That's why this new decision was so shocking to everyone.

 

Listening to ESPN's legal analyst on Mike & Mike this morning, I find it odd that the players were asking to be deemed employees of the university, but they dont want a salary or their scholarship to be considered income. Obviously they want the ability to bargain for "benefits" but not have those benefits deemed income that they have to pay taxes on. I think if i'm NW or other private universities, perhaps that's the angle I go - you want a seat at the table? Fine, but we're collecting income tax out of everything we pay you and for any trust you want you're paying a share too. ESPN's guy said the schools would never open up the tax box because they don't pay taxes on their earnings, but that was sort of ignoring the point that the schools are usually not for profit and re-invest that money into the school.

 

And it's not irrelevant. The whole point of this movement is how unfair it is that these poor athletes have all these restrictions on them and they make the school so much money and they don't get a slice of the pie. And we all know that's bulls*** because they do get a slice. The question is how big should the slice be. I'm more open to the idea of allowing the player to make money off of his own image if he wants (subject to rules protecting the various trademarks of the schools and conferences), but I don't care to have a college sports system that becomes a semi-pro league. If the majority of these guys were going to go pro, I might have a different opinion. But right now it's an insanely low number of D1 athletes that go pro. The rest play the sport to obtain a scholarship that provides them with a degree. It's illogical to conclude that their only purpose then is to play sports and make the school money.

 

Also, Obama did stack the national NLRB board according to ESPN's guy. 3 of them in fact, out of a 5 person panel. All very pro-union.

Edited March 27, 2014 by Jenksismybitch

[RockRaines]

The Ohio State AD just earned an $18k bonus because one wrestler won a national championship. That's the kind of stuff that needs to change. Either give the kid something or put it back into the non revenue sport. Don't put it in the pocket of the guy who already makes $18k per week. Administrators don't want to pay players, because it will come out of their pocket. (Not picking on OSU Rock, that was just in the news, it happens everywhere)

 

It's pretty commonplace so its not picking on anyone. AD's get bonuses when sports win national titles, so do coaches, support staff etc. Everyone gets a performance bonus except for the kids that perform.

[Jenksismyhero]

It's pretty commonplace so its not picking on anyone. AD's get bonuses when sports win national titles, so do coaches, support staff etc. Everyone gets a performance bonus except for the kids that perform.

 

And that's how every business in the world works. Why should student athletes get special treatment?

[StrangeSox]

As for this just going through because it's an Obama stacked board, LOL. I doubt he's even been able to appoint anyone. But when an organization becomes a billion dollar revenue company largely through the free labor of amateur athletes while paying themselves lavishly, the shoe is gonna drop at some point.

 

Back in 2012, Obama appointed three people to the NLRB during the controversial recess appointments. Before that, the board didn't even have enough members to reach a quorum and could not rule on anything. Any appointment was blocked to keep it that way. Last year, the nominees were finally confirmed by the Senate and the NLRB has a full board(of five) now.

 

Chicago Tonight had a segment on yesterday with a law professor from IIT discussing the ruling.

 

Also, Obama did stack the national NLRB board according to ESPN's guy. 3 of them in fact, out of a 5 person panel. All very pro-union.

 

Appointing people to existing vacancies is part of the job of an executive. I don't think that can really be considered "stacking."

Edited March 27, 2014 by StrangeSox

[bmags]

And that's how every business in the world works. Why should student athletes get special treatment?

 

Actually my company pays me in money, in addition to "perks" like providing a computer, phone, internet, pays for some of my phone and gym bill, gives me an office to work in, etc.

[Jenksismyhero]

Actually my company pays me in money, in addition to "perks" like providing a computer, phone, internet, pays for some of my phone and gym bill, gives me an office to work in, etc.

 

I was referring to the bonuses that AD's and coaches and staff get. In most businesses management gets a share of the profits generated by the grunts.

[Jenksismyhero]

Back in 2012, Obama appointed three people to the NLRB during the controversial recess appointments. Before that, the board didn't even have enough members to reach a quorum and could not rule on anything. Any appointment was blocked to keep it that way. Last year, the nominees were finally confirmed by the Senate and the NLRB has a full board(of five) now.

 

Chicago Tonight had a segment on yesterday with a law professor from IIT discussing the ruling.

 

 

 

Appointing people to existing vacancies is part of the job of an executive. I don't think that can really be considered "stacking."

 

I didn't mean to imply that he was doing it for some nefarious purpose, but he did put his people in that share his beliefs. It's not like the NLRB is going to be some non-partisan, non-political body deciding this issue.