Max Scherzer

[Kyyle23]

You want more of a guarantee? Pay Scherzer.

 

A GM contending for a payoff spot might be willing to give of a prospect with top-of-the-rotation stuff for Quintana. Teams like Baltimore, Toonto, Arizona, or Atlanta to name four.

 

Right, because keeping that top of the rotation stuff in house, cheaply, makes no sense to a contending GM.

 

 

[Marty34]

Right, because keeping that top of the rotation stuff in house, cheaply, makes no sense to a contending GM.

 

The O's and Jays may not have time to wait on developing a #2 starter, have to win while Yankees are down.

[ScottyDo]

The fastest way to contend is to find a top-of-the-rotation starter.

Yeah, just ask the 2007 Giants.

[DrunkBomber]

We aren't spending nine figures on a starting pitcher. That's not how this works. That isn't how any of this works.

I unfriend you

[Kyyle23]

The O's and Jays may not have time to wait on developing a #2 starter, have to win while Yankees are down.

 

Again, if they have this possible 1-2 starter in the minors, which you are putting in the Sox rotation as early as next year, why would that team want to deal that starter for only 4 years of Quintana, instead of building around him. It is simply shortsighted and terrible management of assets. The Os and Blue Jays aren't gonna jump past the Yankees with a move like that.

[Kyyle23]

I unfriend you

 

That's not how this works. That's not how any of this works

[TaylorStSox]

Yup.

[southsider2k5]

The O's and Jays may not have time to wait on developing a #2 starter, have to win while Yankees are down.

 

Great. So let them sign Scherzer. Problem solved.

[Marty34]

Again, if they have this possible 1-2 starter in the minors, which you are putting in the Sox rotation as early as next year, why would that team want to deal that starter for only 4 years of Quintana, instead of building around him. It is simply shortsighted and terrible management of assets. The Os and Blue Jays aren't gonna jump past the Yankees with a move like that.

 

Because the team trading for Quintana sacrifices some upside for a finished product.

[Kyyle23]

Because the team trading for Quintana sacrifices some upside for a finished product.

 

"Some upside" does not meet your qualifications of "top of the line starter". And if the Sox already have the finished product at a reasonable price, doesn't really make sense for them to trade away for a guy with "some upside"

 

So again, it makes sense for neither team

[Jerksticks]

I feel like people forget that most teams are trying to win the World Series, not collect top prospects. Every GM with a contending team is always going to make KW moves, and that's a very very good thing to do. I don't even know if that's arguable?

[Kyyle23]

I feel like people forget that most teams are trying to win the World Series, not collect top prospects. Every GM with a contending team is always going to make KW moves, and that's a very very good thing to do. I don't even know if that's arguable?

 

I'm not arguing that players won't be dealt. What I am arguing is that Marty's scenario makes little sense for both teams if what he is asking for were to happen. He wants a top of the rotation starter major league ready prospect which he plans on plugging in the rotation pretty much immediately, and plans on acquiring said starter with Quintana merely because he has a good deal and is the finished product.

 

Doesn't make sense, teams don't ditch Michael Wacha just because they want Quintanas deal. And the Sox shouldn't be looking elsewhere with Quintanas deal just because it is a good deal. They should plan on benefiting from that deal.

 

 

[RockRaines]

I'm not arguing that players won't be dealt. What I am arguing is that Marty's scenario makes little sense for both teams if what he is asking for were to happen. He wants a top of the rotation starter major league ready prospect which he plans on plugging in the rotation pretty much immediately, and plans on acquiring said starter with Quintana merely because he has a good deal and is the finished product.

 

Doesn't make sense, teams don't ditch Michael Wacha just because they want Quintanas deal. And the Sox shouldn't be looking elsewhere with Quintanas deal just because it is a good deal. They should plan on benefiting from that deal.

It makes more sense than the Sox signing Scherzer, but that doesnt say much.

 

And I repeat, the Sox will NOT be bidding on Scherzer.

[TheTruth05]

It makes more sense than the Sox signing Scherzer, but that doesnt say much.

 

And I repeat, the Sox will NOT be bidding on Scherzer.

 

thank the heavens!

Edited March 28, 2014 by TheTruth05

[caulfield12]

And around and around it goes, where it stops, nobody knows.

 

Let's face it, most GM's probably view Quintana as closer to a 3 (possibly 4 type on a really deep playoff team like the Cards), and they're not going to give up someone like a Wacha or Shelby Miller for him.

 

They might part with a Piscotty, Kelly or Carlos Martinez, but then we're losing a cost-controlled player whose upside is a 2 and who definitely will be a good return of investment with his current team-friendly contract even if he falls off to a 3/4 type.

 

So the White Sox go ahead and make that trade...not for Lance Lynn, who we really would want the most, but for someone who could be a 2/3 starter, but just as likely could end up out of the rotation in a year.

 

 

WHICH WOULD INEVITABLY LEAD TO....Piscotty, Kelly, Carlos Martinez, Beck, #3 pick aren't ready yet and need two years, therefore we need to trade Chris Sale now.

Edited March 28, 2014 by caulfield12

[Quin]

A name that comes to mind immediately as a player the Sox could show interest in this year, ala Freddy Garcia in 2004, is Yovani Gallardo, depending on how his velocity looks this year as it's been decreasing in recent years. Obviously, you prefer players with a lot of team control left, but those players are going for a premium at this point. Gallardo, who just turned 28, is a guy who was supposed to be a stud and has fallen off a bit in recent years. He's still always had really good stuff and could be a guy that becomes available for trade this year if/when the Brewers fall out of contention. Given his numbers, he could be a guy that re-signs for around that magic $12 mill a year or so, and he fits the profile of a #2/#3 starter that could be used to solidify the depth of the rotation. His profile as a power sinker, ground ball pitcher who also strikes guys out fits what the Sox are looking for too.

 

Given the Sox dearth of pitching plus numerous other interesting prospects (and even Gillaspie as a possible throw-in type), the two sides could easily make a deal.

 

I like this and it makes sense.

 

Points to wite.

[Kyyle23]

And around and around it goes, where it stops, nobody knows.

 

Let's face it, most GM's probably view Quintana as closer to a 3 (possibly 4 type on a really deep playoff team like the Cards), and they're not going to give up someone like a Wacha or Shelby Miller for him.

 

They might part with a Piscotty, Kelly or Carlos Martinez, but then we're losing a cost-controlled player whose upside is a 2 and who definitely will be a good return of investment with his current team-friendly contract even if he falls off to a 3/4 type.

 

So the White Sox go ahead and make that trade...not for Lance Lynn, who we really would want the most, but for someone who could be a 2/3 starter, but just as likely could end up out of the rotation in a year.

 

 

WHICH WOULD INEVITABLY LEAD TO....Piscotty, Kelly, Carlos Martinez, Beck, #3 pick aren't ready yet and need two years, therefore we need to trade Chris Sale now.

 

Correct, my bad for continuing

 

[witesoxfan]

And around and around it goes, where it stops, nobody knows.

 

Let's face it, most GM's probably view Quintana as closer to a 3 (possibly 4 type on a really deep playoff team like the Cards), and they're not going to give up someone like a Wacha or Shelby Miller for him.

 

They might part with a Piscotty, Kelly or Carlos Martinez, but then we're losing a cost-controlled player whose upside is a 2 and who definitely will be a good return of investment with his current team-friendly contract even if he falls off to a 3/4 type.

 

So the White Sox go ahead and make that trade...not for Lance Lynn, who we really would want the most, but for someone who could be a 2/3 starter, but just as likely could end up out of the rotation in a year.

 

 

WHICH WOULD INEVITABLY LEAD TO....Piscotty, Kelly, Carlos Martinez, Beck, #3 pick aren't ready yet and need two years, therefore we need to trade Chris Sale now.

 

What the...I don't even...why would you spend time finding trade possibilities with the Cardinals? That is the absolute last team I would approach about trading Quintana, which is a ridiculous proposition in the first place.

[caulfield12]

What the...I don't even...why would you spend time finding trade possibilities with the Cardinals? That is the absolute last team I would approach about trading Quintana, which is a ridiculous proposition in the first place.

 

Just to illuminate the point that trading Quintana to a contending team that MIGHT want certainty about this year instead of exposing Kelly/Martinez at the back end of the rotation doesn't make sense.

 

Of course, we'd all want Lynn/Miller/Wacha, but we'd end up with Carlos Martinez for Quintana.

 

Would anyone make that trade? That's essentially the argument, that Martinez has the ABILITY to be a 1/2 guy and that Quintana is really a 3/4, and therefore it makes more sense to acquire that guy with six years of cost control at a lower overall salary than what they're going to pay Quintana (which still isn't much, basically one year of Cabrera or Verlander).

 

Or I could just go back to the "cost controlled" Sergio Santos for Nestor Molina blockbuster.

 

Teams aren't going to give up those 1/2 frontline young starting pitching prospects. They'll give up their flawed prospects who have tools but much less likelihood of putting it all together.

Edited March 28, 2014 by caulfield12

[Chicago White Sox]

I want to know in what universe Quintana could be considered anything less than a strong #3 starter. Sure, he'd be the Tigers' 4th best starter, but that's because they have three guys pitching like #1's. They are a total outlier and I bet a lot of teams would love to have Quintana as their #2. IMO, he's a strong #3 in a championship caliber rotation. Anyone calling him a #4 type starter must not be following baseball very closely.

[GreatScott82]

I like this and it makes sense.

 

Points to wite.

I would love Yovani G. However, he has a club option that the Brew Crew will likely pick up.

[witesoxfan]

I would love Yovani G. However, he has a club option that the Brew Crew will likely pick up.

 

They could, and I admit I did not see that the first time, but they also can get more value for him if they trade him this year than if they trade him in the offseason or next season.

[GreenSox]

Again, if they have this possible 1-2 starter in the minors, which you are putting in the Sox rotation as early as next year, why would that team want to deal that starter for only 4 years of Quintana, instead of building around him. It is simply shortsighted and terrible management of assets. The Os and Blue Jays aren't gonna jump past the Yankees with a move like that.

Because they are getting a virtual sure thing. You aren't going to get a #1 starter for a prospect with #1 potential. Plus if you're ready to win now, you need a capable starter now.

And for the Sox to trade Quintana for a prospect with 2/3 potential would be clownish. But I agree, a GM is unlikely to offer what he is worth.

 

Here's a good article on Q: http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/what-is-a-jose-quintana/

Edited March 28, 2014 by GreenSox

[caulfield12]

They could, and I admit I did not see that the first time, but they also can get more value for him if they trade him this year than if they trade him in the offseason or next season.

 

 

The Brewers have a legit shot at the wild card.

 

Sure, if everything falls apart, maybe they go down that road...but then picking him up for just 1 1/2 seasons, that's not in the current Hahn model of sustainable success either.

 

Simply because of the fact that you'd probably be losing him precisely at the time you would most need him...going into the 2016 season.

 

 

Then, if they did blow things up, they'd be looking for young prospects, which is precisely what we don't have in abundance, since we need the best prospects for the rebuild.

 

They're going to need a lot more than Rienzo, Carlos Sanchez or Trayce Thompson types.

 

For example, would we be willing to part with Beck and Semien for 1 1/2 years of Gallardo? It's a bit like the Wil Myers for James Shields move, then, although Myers was/is 5-10X the prospect of Beck or Semien.

 

If you were the Brewers, would you trade him for Micah Johnson and Beck, for example?

Edited March 28, 2014 by caulfield12

[GreenSox]

The Brewers have a legit shot at the wild card.

 

Sure, if everything falls apart, maybe they go down that road...but then picking him up for just 1 1/2 seasons, that's not in the current Hahn model of sustainable success either.

 

Simply because of the fact that you'd probably be losing him precisely at the time you would most need him...going into the 2016 season.

 

 

Then, if they did blow things up, they'd be looking for young prospects, which is precisely what we don't have in abundance, since we need the best prospects for the rebuild.

 

They're going to need a lot more than Rienzo, Carlos Sanchez or Trayce Thompson types.

 

For example, would we be willing to part with Beck and Semien for 1 1/2 years of Gallardo? It's a bit like the Wil Myers for James Shields move, then, although Myers was/is 5-10X the prospect of Beck or Semien.

 

If you were the Brewers, would you trade him for Micah Johnson and Beck, for example?

No, I wouldn't trade all that for a #3. Sign one if we must. I trust our ability to develop and find pitchers though. We're going to need at least 2 more real hitters. I think teams missed the boat not offering something decent for De Aza this spring...I think he has a good year, and will have a higher price in July. Then again, if he does hit well, and A Gracia and M Davidson develop, we may have a quality core and then can concentrate our big move on a Catcher.

 

I don't see the Brewers contending - they have a staff of #3s...that won't cut it.

Edited March 28, 2014 by GreenSox