Max Scherzer

[caulfield12]

I can't think of the last time the Sox signed a free agent top of the rotation starting pitcher though. It was probably Jamie Navarro, though that's stretching the definition of the phrase top of the rotation.

 

I can recall several instances where they traded for one though, and it was (almost) always at a fair cost.

 

 

David Wells, 2001

[southsider2k5]

0.0 chance. Thanks for playing.

 

That might be a little high...

[RockRaines]

That might be a little high...

They literally won't even consider him. Not even on their list.

[Kyyle23]

David Wells, 2001

 

Terrible example. Freddy Garcia should be first and foremost

[Chicago White Sox]

They literally won't even consider him. Not even on their list.

What about Masterson though Rock? With the way Hahn has been targeting sinker ballers for the bullpen, you have to think Masterson would make a ton of sense for our rotation, especially playing at the Cell.

[RockRaines]

What about Masterson though Rock? With the way Hahn has been targeting sinker ballers for the bullpen, you have to think Masterson would make a ton of sense for our rotation, especially playing at the Cell.

I don't particularly see them targeting large free agents for the rotation at the moment. How far along the team comes this year could also have a lot to do with it.

[caulfield12]

Terrible example. Freddy Garcia should be first and foremost

 

 

He said SIGNED. "I can't think of the last time the Sox signed a free agent top of the rotation starting pitcher though."

 

Not traded for/or extended once already on the team...because then you have Contreras, Danks, Floyd, Javy, Garland, etc.

 

 

The only two that qualify in the last 20-25 years are Navarro and David Wells.

Edited March 28, 2014 by caulfield12

[southsider2k5]

I don't particularly see them targeting large free agents for the rotation at the moment. How far along the team comes this year could also have a lot to do with it.

 

I would imagine they play out this season and see where they think they need an upgrade. With the pitching depth we have, I can't imagine it would be another pitcher, but I suppose crazier things have happened.

[Kyyle23]

He said SIGNED.

 

Not traded for/or extended once already on the team...because then you have Contreras, Danks, Floyd, Javy, Garland, etc.

 

 

The only two that qualify in the last 20-25 years are Navarro and David Wells.

 

David Wells WAS traded for, not signed. I am amazed that you are somehow forgetting the Toronto trade debacle with Mike Sirotka, but I guess even Caulfield can have a bad memory day

 

And to be honest I thought you were responding to the second part of his statement where he said "I can think of a few instances when one was traded for"

 

And that is why I responded with Garcia

[caulfield12]

David Wells WAS traded for, not signed. I am amazed that you are somehow forgetting the Toronto trade debacle with Mike Sirotka, but I guess even Caulfield can have a bad memory day

 

And to be honest I thought you were responding to the second part of his statement where he said "I can think of a few instances when one was traded for"

 

And that is why I responded with Garcia

 

 

Oops. Yeah, I just remember we had him for $9.5 million for one year, and it was a disaster from beginning, the David Wells radio appearance/sniping with Thomas, then both those guys got injured and we had the pleasure of watching Jose Canseco for half a summer.

 

Amazingly enough, after starting out 14-29, they got back up over .500 in the summer but couldn't quite make a run after they fought to get back to that point.

[Balta1701]

I would imagine they play out this season and see where they think they need an upgrade. With the pitching depth we have, I can't imagine it would be another pitcher, but I suppose crazier things have happened.

This is 100% my expectation as well. It's just crazy to think we know what the weaknesses will look like 6 months from now with this many kids around.

[witesoxfan]

David Wells, 2001

 

They traded for David Wells.

[Marty34]

If you don't like Jimenez or Santana for 4 years and $50 million, and a second round pick I don't understand how you can like Masterson next year for significantly more money and a higher draft pick.

 

See how this season goes. You don't have to have targets on free agents yet. I will say, one of the reasons I thought the Sox should target the above THIS year is the price tag. You will be giving up a lot more later for something similar both in money and draft pick. I liked Jimenez a little more than Santana, but it is funny that Don Cooper is a supposedly a genius, but if an expensive free agent pitcher signed this season, they certainly would bust. Hopefully the Sox young starters and Paulino are as good as some posters here think so it will be a non issue.

 

Yeah I don't understand the logic of not wanting Jimenez at $50M, but wanting to throw $75M or more at Masterson.

 

Maybe a team in contention this summer that needs a pitcher will overpay for Quintana and that will be the way we get another top of the rotation starter.

 

2015

 

Sale

Shields

Danks

Johnson

Prospect acquired for Q

 

2016

 

Sale

Shields

Prospect acquired for Q

Johnson

Danks

 

2017

 

Sale

Prospect acquired for Q

Johnson

Shields

#3 pick

[harfman77]

Yeah I don't understand the logic of not wanting Jimenez at $50M, but wanting to throw $75M or more at Masterson.

 

Maybe a team in contention this summer that needs a pitcher will overpay for Quintana and that will be the way we get another top of the rotation starter.

 

2015

 

Sale

Shields

Danks

Johnson

Prospect acquired for Q

 

2016

 

Sale

Shields

Prospect acquired for Q

Johnson

Danks

 

2017

 

Sale

Prospect acquired for Q

Johnson

Shields

#3 pick

 

2015

Sale

Quintana

Johnson

Danks

Paulino/Beck

 

2016

Sale

Quintana

Beck

Danks

Johnson

 

2017

Sale

Beck

Quintana

Johnson

#3 Pick/Danish

[Marty34]

While I think finding a #2 starter is important, I'm not sure how a left-handed power hitter and a legit starting catcher aren't bigger needs. Regardless, give me Masterson over Scherzer, who will come a hell of a lot cheaper and is a perfect fit for our ballpark.

 

The fastest way to contend is to find a top-of-the-rotation starter.

[southsider2k5]

The fastest way to contend is to find a top-of-the-rotation starter.

 

And now the Sox have two, for cheap as hell.

 

[Marty34]

And now the Sox have two, for cheap as hell.

 

May have two.

[Chicago White Sox]

The fastest way to contend is to find a top-of-the-rotation starter.

Not sure I agree with this logic. We have a massive hole at catcher and a right-handed heavy lineup. Who are the internal candidates to fill those needs at the moment? At least with our starting pitching, we have three young guys that form a nice core in Sale, Quintana, & Johnson (I'm a believer in him) plus a veteran who has been a #2 caliber starter at times in the past in Danks and who is also under contract for the next few years. On top of that, we an interesting prospect in Beck who could be ready as soon as next year. Unlike some posters here, I would like to see the Sox add a legit #2 starter between Sale & Quintana, with Johnson becoming the #4 and Beck/others pushing Danks for the 5th spot. Having said that, I think there is a much larger marginal benefit to be had upgrading from Flowers & Dunn. And like I said, without internal options to replace them, these are spots that could really handcuff us in the near future if we don't make them priorities.

[Kyyle23]

May have two.

 

Your scenario does nothing to guarantee another top of the rotation starter, and counts on another GM being dumb enough to trade a "potential" top of the rotation starter for Quintana. Again, it makes absolutely zero sense. Why would any other GM make this trade?

[Chicago White Sox]

If you don't like Jimenez or Santana for 4 years and $50 million, and a second round pick I don't understand how you can like Masterson next year for significantly more money and a higher draft pick.

 

See how this season goes. You don't have to have targets on free agents yet. I will say, one of the reasons I thought the Sox should target the above THIS year is the price tag. You will be giving up a lot more later for something similar both in money and draft pick. I liked Jimenez a little more than Santana, but it is funny that Don Cooper is a supposedly a genius, but if an expensive free agent pitcher signed this season, they certainly would bust. Hopefully the Sox young starters and Paulino are as good as some posters here think so it will be a non issue.

Because I think Masterson profiles better for our park. 56.4% career ground ball rate for Justin vs. 47.6% for Ubaldo. And quite frankly, I wasn't 100% against signing Jimenez, but I did feel we were probably better off waiting another year to sign a veteran starter given where we're at competitively. I'd hate giving up the draft pick, but I would been ok with Jimenez at the price he ultimately cost. I definitely would have pissed with signjng Santana though.

[southsider2k5]

May have two.

 

And Max Scherzer, MAY be a good pitcher in 3 years.

[Marty34]

Your scenario does nothing to guarantee another top of the rotation starter, and counts on another GM being dumb enough to trade a "potential" top of the rotation starter for Quintana. Again, it makes absolutely zero sense. Why would any other GM make this trade?

 

You want more of a guarantee? Pay Scherzer.

 

A GM contending for a payoff spot might be willing to give of a prospect with top-of-the-rotation stuff for Quintana. Teams like Baltimore, Toonto, Arizona, or Atlanta to name four.

[TaylorStSox]

Never gonna happen.

 

Without reading the whole thread, I'm guessing Marty is creating outlandish scenarios to perpetuate an argument.

[Marty34]

Because I think Masterson profiles better for our park. 56.4% career ground ball rate for Justin vs. 47.6% for Ubaldo. And quite frankly, I wasn't 100% against signing Jimenez, but I did feel we were probably better off waiting another year to sign a veteran starter given where we're at competitively. I'd hate giving up the draft pick, but I would been ok with Jimenez at the price he ultimately cost. I definitely would have pissed with signjng Santana though.

 

Masterson would be north of $75M and you still probably need a pitcher better than him at the top of the rotation.

[witesoxfan]

A name that comes to mind immediately as a player the Sox could show interest in this year, ala Freddy Garcia in 2004, is Yovani Gallardo, depending on how his velocity looks this year as it's been decreasing in recent years. Obviously, you prefer players with a lot of team control left, but those players are going for a premium at this point. Gallardo, who just turned 28, is a guy who was supposed to be a stud and has fallen off a bit in recent years. He's still always had really good stuff and could be a guy that becomes available for trade this year if/when the Brewers fall out of contention. Given his numbers, he could be a guy that re-signs for around that magic $12 mill a year or so, and he fits the profile of a #2/#3 starter that could be used to solidify the depth of the rotation. His profile as a power sinker, ground ball pitcher who also strikes guys out fits what the Sox are looking for too.

 

Given the Sox dearth of pitching plus numerous other interesting prospects (and even Gillaspie as a possible throw-in type), the two sides could easily make a deal.