caulfield12 Posted March 30, 2014 Share Posted March 30, 2014 (edited) The catcher It's very possible that the most important catcher to change teams this winter wasn't Brian McCann or A.J. Pierzynski. It might very well have been Hanigan -- picked up from the Reds in a three-team deal that included the Diamondbacks, then locked up to a three-year, $10.75-million contract. "They've been looking for a catcher forever," said one scout. "And this guy might be the best catcher they've ever had." Hanigan's selling points: Big-time defensive skills across the board. A lifetime 40-percent caught-stealing rate. A .786 career OPS against left-handed pitching. More career walks than strikeouts. And a reputation as a superior leader of staffs. "Getting a guy like that, that's huge," says Maddon. "I mean, why is he huge? Talk to him, for like five minutes. And then watch him play, for like one inning. And you know the impact this guy can have on your team, because he's skillfully good, and then he's just totally dripping with intangibles that you want out of a catcher." Jayson Stark with ESPN.com uses Hanigan as one of his primary reasons for the Rays to reach the World Series and win it all. Is he being grossly overrated, based on the comments of one or two scouts? Did the White Sox simply pass...not have the right talent match to make the deal...are we missing something here? Just curious what everyone thinks, since his name didn't come up very much as an option...of course, he wasn't a FA, but as a back-up catcher a lot of teams were after, I suppose. Mostly, we talked about McCann and Saltalamacchia. And his contract is MORE than affordable, it's less than we're paying Keppinger. Edited March 30, 2014 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted March 30, 2014 Share Posted March 30, 2014 (edited) QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Mar 30, 2014 -> 07:58 AM) The catcher It's very possible that the most important catcher to change teams this winter wasn't Brian McCann or A.J. Pierzynski. It might very well have been Hanigan -- picked up from the Reds in a three-team deal that included the Diamondbacks, then locked up to a three-year, $10.75-million contract. "They've been looking for a catcher forever," said one scout. "And this guy might be the best catcher they've ever had." Hanigan's selling points: Big-time defensive skills across the board. A lifetime 40-percent caught-stealing rate. A .786 career OPS against left-handed pitching. More career walks than strikeouts. And a reputation as a superior leader of staffs. "Getting a guy like that, that's huge," says Maddon. "I mean, why is he huge? Talk to him, for like five minutes. And then watch him play, for like one inning. And you know the impact this guy can have on your team, because he's skillfully good, and then he's just totally dripping with intangibles that you want out of a catcher." Jayson Stark with ESPN.com uses Hanigan as one of his primary reasons for the Rays to reach the World Series and win it all. Is he being grossly overrated, based on the comments of one or two scouts? Did the White Sox simply pass...not have the right talent match to make the deal...are we missing something here? Just curious what everyone thinks, since his name didn't come up very much as an option...of course, he wasn't a FA, but as a back-up catcher a lot of teams were after, I suppose. Mostly, we talked about McCann and Saltalamacchia. And his contract is MORE than affordable, it's less than we're paying Keppinger. He has been a back up most of his career. Hit under .200 last year and is 33 years old. I think he would fall under short term at best upgrade that Hahn wasn't interested in this past offseason. Edited March 30, 2014 by Dick Allen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted March 30, 2014 Author Share Posted March 30, 2014 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Mar 30, 2014 -> 07:06 AM) He has been a back up most of his career. Hit under .200 last year and is 33 years old. I think he would fall under short term at best upgrade that Hahn wasn't interested in this past offseason. Maybe they're making the mistake of touting every Friedman move these days as genius. Obviously, they themselves have been about as bad with catchers recently as the White Sox with 3B or developing hitters in the minors. However, that's one position where a more veteran leader really could have helped the White Sox...as well as buying more time for youngsters to develop or simply finding the right "younger" franchise type of catcher Hahn surely is looking to build around. The White Sox rotation is basically in place to win, if not now, at least in 2015. The White Sox can't afford to have the worst catcher in baseball again that season if they realistically hope to compete. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted March 30, 2014 Share Posted March 30, 2014 (edited) QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Mar 30, 2014 -> 08:17 AM) Maybe they're making the mistake of touting every Friedman move these days as genius. Obviously, they themselves have been about as bad with catchers recently as the White Sox with 3B or developing hitters in the minors. However, that's one position where a more veteran leader really could have helped the White Sox...as well as buying more time for youngsters to develop or simply finding the right "younger" franchise type of catcher Hahn surely is looking to build around. The White Sox rotation is basically in place to win, if not now, at least in 2015. The White Sox can't afford to have the worst catcher in baseball again that season if they realistically hope to compete. I agree with this. If a long term solution wasn't available, a short term, to me, would have made sense. I am not familiar with Hanigan, but some here were when it was public he was the odd man out, and thought the Sox should inquire. I do know if he is half as good as the spring training fluff for the next couple seasons, and Hahn doesn't have a solution to the catching problem, it would have been a big mistake waiting for the home run, when a single or a double would have been just fine. Edited March 30, 2014 by Dick Allen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted March 30, 2014 Share Posted March 30, 2014 (edited) I honestly think one of Grandal & Castro will be our catcher by next opening day. Both fit perfectly in terms of age and need, and both the Astros & Padres have top catching prospects not too far away. These guys won't come cheap obviously, but the position is such a huge organizational need that I truly believe Hahn will be willing to pay a steep price for a long-term solution. Edited March 30, 2014 by Chicago White Sox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenSox Posted March 30, 2014 Share Posted March 30, 2014 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Mar 30, 2014 -> 08:17 AM) The White Sox rotation is basically in place to win, if not now, at least in 2015. The White Sox can't afford to have the worst catcher in baseball again that season if they realistically hope to compete. Yes they can, if he handles the position defensively and we get quality production out of 2B, 3B and LF, which we haven't in a while. Anyway, if he hits 190 again, a marginal upgrade won't be hard to find....just no reason to use resources for a mediocre player at this point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted March 30, 2014 Author Share Posted March 30, 2014 QUOTE (GreenSox @ Mar 30, 2014 -> 08:50 AM) Yes they can, if he handles the position defensively and we get quality production out of 2B, 3B and LF, which we haven't in a while. Anyway, if he hits 190 again, a marginal upgrade won't be hard to find....just no reason to use resources for a mediocre player at this point. But then you're assuming that Eaton, Garcia and Abreu are all as good as advertised. That we can find a competent replacement for Dunn. That Semien will hit the ground running and/or Alexei Ramirez will still be around, because replacing him won't be easy either, especially defensively. Plug in Carlos Sanchez, Keppinger (unlikely), or Leury Garcia at SS and you're going to be getting a bottom 10-20% MLB offensive player in 2014 or 2015. Bigger than the offense, though...is the skills that Hanigan SUPPOSEDLY has in terms of handling the pitching staff, particularly a group of mostly youngsters (Price is a veteran in a way, but not in terms of age). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted March 30, 2014 Share Posted March 30, 2014 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Mar 30, 2014 -> 10:19 AM) But then you're assuming that Eaton, Garcia and Abreu are all as good as advertised. That we can find a competent replacement for Dunn. That Semien will hit the ground running and/or Alexei Ramirez will still be around, because replacing him won't be easy either, especially defensively. Plug in Carlos Sanchez, Keppinger (unlikely), or Leury Garcia at SS and you're going to be getting a bottom 10-20% MLB offensive player in 2014 or 2015. Bigger than the offense, though...is the skills that Hanigan SUPPOSEDLY has in terms of handling the pitching staff, particularly a group of mostly youngsters (Price is a veteran in a way, but not in terms of age). You are touting an article that talks about Ryan Hannigan helping a team win a World Series, and in the same breath chastising people for believing in prospects developing? Ok. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted March 30, 2014 Share Posted March 30, 2014 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Mar 30, 2014 -> 12:27 PM) You are touting an article that talks about Ryan Hannigan helping a team win a World Series, and in the same breath chastising people for believing in prospects developing? Ok. Ryan Hanigan during the season when he turns 34 is not likely to be the difference between this white sox team making and missing the playoffs and he's extremely unlikely to be the white sox's long term solution at catcher. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted March 30, 2014 Share Posted March 30, 2014 If you want "weak hitting catchers in their early to mid 30's who can probably give you a couple years while you look for a better option" there are again going to be several available as FA's next offseason. Kurt Suzuki, Russell Martin, HGeovannyH,Ryan Doumit, with some other veterans like John Buck, AJ, Olivo, David Ross who could fill in some time if needed. And that's not counting trade options. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted March 30, 2014 Share Posted March 30, 2014 Wow, is this thread for real? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted March 30, 2014 Share Posted March 30, 2014 I thought there was some new Hanigan on the block that I didn't ever hear of. Nope. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted March 30, 2014 Author Share Posted March 30, 2014 (edited) QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Mar 30, 2014 -> 11:46 AM) If you want "weak hitting catchers in their early to mid 30's who can probably give you a couple years while you look for a better option" there are again going to be several available as FA's next offseason. Kurt Suzuki, Russell Martin, HGeovannyH,Ryan Doumit, with some other veterans like John Buck, AJ, Olivo, David Ross who could fill in some time if needed. And that's not counting trade options. Is Doumit back to catching again? He was always used more as a LF/DH with the Twins, but now that Mauer's playing the field and Kubel's back...just haven't been following the Twins as much. And is Olivo still on a major league roster? Edited March 30, 2014 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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