Kyyle23 Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Apr 2, 2014 -> 11:59 AM) I've seen this script before involving Rob Mackowiak. you are seriously going to compare this to something that happened 8 years ago, with a completely different coach/team/GM? Are you afraid of the White Flag trade this July too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Apr 2, 2014 -> 01:02 PM) you are seriously going to compare this to something that happened 8 years ago, with a completely different coach/team/GM? Are you afraid of the White Flag trade this July too? No because I don't expect the team to be 3 games out in July. I did expect that carrying an extra starting LF would cost the LF we might want to develop much of his playing time. And voila. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted April 2, 2014 Author Share Posted April 2, 2014 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Apr 2, 2014 -> 12:01 PM) They should've just dropped Dunn. You know I was just thinking... what would make this game thread better. More Adam Dunn talk! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Apr 2, 2014 -> 12:04 PM) No because I don't expect the team to be 3 games out in July. I did expect that carrying an extra starting LF would cost the LF we might want to develop much of his playing time. And voila. yea, quite a large sample size to prove your point Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Apr 2, 2014 -> 01:06 PM) yea, quite a large sample size to prove your point So you'll agree with me in a couple weeks when it's clear this is a firm platoon that it was a terrible idea? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Apr 2, 2014 -> 12:04 PM) You know I was just thinking... what would make this game thread better. More Adam Dunn talk! It's the logical answer to this playing time issue. Everyone knows it even if they don't acknowledge it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted April 2, 2014 Author Share Posted April 2, 2014 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Apr 2, 2014 -> 12:08 PM) So you'll agree with me in a couple weeks when it's clear this is a firm platoon that it was a terrible idea? I don't see how that claim can be made fairly without knowing what the offers for both players looked like this off-season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Apr 2, 2014 -> 12:08 PM) So you'll agree with me in a couple weeks when it's clear this is a firm platoon that it was a terrible idea? No, I dont make snap judgements on this team based on 1, 2, or 15 games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted April 2, 2014 Author Share Posted April 2, 2014 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Apr 2, 2014 -> 12:09 PM) It's the logical answer to this playing time issue. Everyone knows it even if they don't acknowledge it. By all means, keep on trolling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Apr 2, 2014 -> 12:08 PM) So you'll agree with me in a couple weeks when it's clear this is a firm platoon that it was a terrible idea? It was a great idea for the opener. Your line up construction WAR is already -1.0. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Apr 2, 2014 -> 12:10 PM) By all means, keep on trolling. I can't believe I am sticking up for Marty again, but how can you call his post trolling and not Balta's? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted April 2, 2014 Author Share Posted April 2, 2014 Chuck Garfien @ChuckGarfien 24m Warning: Jason Kubel is batting cleanup for the Twins. 22 of his 139 HRs have come against the White Sox. Indians are next with 12. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 (edited) QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Apr 2, 2014 -> 11:59 AM) I've seen this script before involving Rob Mackowiak. I don't think these situations are as comparable as you believe. Unlike Brian Anderson, Dayan Viciedo has 1235 plate appearances in the major leagues, has offered mediocrity at the plate, and offers mediocrity (or worse) in the field, save a cannon inserted into his right shoulder joint. Still, even though Brian Anderson had only 35 plate appearances in 2005 and proved to be a clubhouse distraction in 2006, as Ozzie obviously never felt comfortable with his habits or his work ethic, he received 405 plate appearances in 2006 and played 134 games there. I would have no problem with Viciedo getting 400 plate appearances this year given the depth the Sox currently have on the roster. Edited April 2, 2014 by witesoxfan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Chappas Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Apr 2, 2014 -> 12:08 PM) So you'll agree with me in a couple weeks when it's clear this is a firm platoon that it was a terrible idea? Why would a platoon be a terrible idea? Putting a young player in a position to succeed seems to work fairly well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 QUOTE (Harry Chappas @ Apr 2, 2014 -> 01:19 PM) Why would a platoon be a terrible idea? Putting a young player in a position to succeed seems to work fairly well. how is that by any stretch of the imagination a "position to succeed" for this player? He actually hit righties better than lefties last year, he clearly needed work on defense and pitch recognition, he was showing some signs of improving against righties (and did a lot worse against lefties last year). It's the opposite of what we ought to be doing with him. Would you be in favor of platooning Garcia? I sure as heck wouldn't, play him. Same basic concept. You platoon him, you're setting him up for failure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Apr 2, 2014 -> 01:19 PM) Unlike Brian Anderson, Dayan Viciedo has 1235 plate appearances in the major leagues, has offered mediocrity at the plate, and offers mediocrity (or worse) in the field, save a cannon inserted into his right shoulder joint. Then he should have been released or traded for whatever was available in the offseason rather than paid solid money to sit on the bench, which was my original post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigHurt3515 Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 sooooo who wants to talk about the game? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Apr 2, 2014 -> 12:23 PM) Then he should have been released or traded for whatever was available in the offseason rather than paid solid money to sit on the bench, which was my original post. You still have to pay bench players, and he's making about $3 million which is not a lot of money. De Aza is just over $4 million. That's $7 million to improve value or increase versatility or get production out of LF or however you want to look at it. If those two combine for 2 WAR, the Sox are getting a discount, or however you want to look at it. Trading a guy just because you don't have a lot of playing time for him and taking whatever you can get is really poor business practice. Releasing said player when they are in a very good, cost controlled situation is even worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Apr 2, 2014 -> 01:29 PM) You still have to pay bench players, and he's making about $3 million which is not a lot of money. De Aza is just over $4 million. That's $7 million to improve value or increase versatility or get production out of LF or however you want to look at it. If those two combine for 2 WAR, the Sox are getting a discount, or however you want to look at it. Trading a guy just because you don't have a lot of playing time for him and taking whatever you can get is really poor business practice. Releasing said player when they are in a very good, cost controlled situation is even worse. That's a great setup if you think the White Sox are out to win the division title this year. It's a perfect setup for 2014 to push for a division pennant. As far as I can tell though the White Sox haven't done that anywhere else. Felipe Paulino is on the mound, for example, today; he's the kind of guy you don't exactly count on to build a title contender. Platooning guys like that is a terrible move if you look at the long term plan as anything other than "win in 2014". In 2015, both of those guys prices go up and suddenly we're talking about 2 guys paid $10 million+ for that production, one of whom is a free agent after the year, and the other of whom you still don't know if he's even worth a bag of balls because you platooned him the previous year. I didn't think he should have been released, but if the choices were between platooning him and not offering him arbitration, you're pushing me close. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Apr 2, 2014 -> 12:29 PM) You still have to pay bench players, and he's making about $3 million which is not a lot of money. De Aza is just over $4 million. That's $7 million to improve value or increase versatility or get production out of LF or however you want to look at it. If those two combine for 2 WAR, the Sox are getting a discount, or however you want to look at it. Trading a guy just because you don't have a lot of playing time for him and taking whatever you can get is really poor business practice. Releasing said player when they are in a very good, cost controlled situation is even worse. And things happen during the season. When Alexei Ramirez joined the Sox, he played the first couple games in CF. He then didn't play a full game for almost 2 weeks. He still got over 500 plate appearances. Juan Uribe in 2004 had over 550 plate appearances. The first 6 games, he had a total of 5. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiliIrishHammock24 Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Apr 2, 2014 -> 12:12 PM) I can't believe I am sticking up for Marty again, but how can you call his post trolling and not Balta's? Because most people don't even know what trolling means, but throw around the stigma anyway to discredit someone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigHurt3515 Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 Its the 2nd game of the damn season, nobody can make assumptions based off of 2 line ups.. Would you bench a guy who hit 2 home runs the previous game no matter what the circumstance is? I know I wouldn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiliIrishHammock24 Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 I'm thinking Paulino has a real solid game today. I'll ahead and throw out a line... 6 2/3 IP, 2 ER, 2 BB, 5K. Pitch count will remove him from the game early. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 QUOTE (BigHurt3515 @ Apr 2, 2014 -> 12:42 PM) Its the 2nd game of the damn season, nobody can make assumptions based off of 2 line ups.. Would you bench a guy who hit 2 home runs the previous game no matter what the circumstance is? I know I wouldn't. I have a suspicion if Viciedo played in these 2 games the complaint would have been why is De Aza on the roster if he isn't going to play against RHP? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 QUOTE (Chilihead90 @ Apr 2, 2014 -> 01:44 PM) I'm thinking Paulino has a real solid game today. I'll ahead and throw out a line... 6 2/3 IP, 2 ER, 2 BB, 5K. Pitch count will remove him from the game early. He walked 10 guys in 22 innings in ST. I'll at least say i'll be impressed if he can cut down on those BB's now that the regular season has started. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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