Attendance

[ewokpelts]

Doubled to what? We're currently 28th in attendance on our way to the third straight year of drawing less than two million, which is pathetic for a big market team. That's the story, not that Reinsdorf's teams are outdrawing the Veeck and Allyn teams of yesteryear.

Actually, the fact that the sox drew more in 2013 than 1970 is impressive, considering that tickets were MUCH cheaper in 1970, and all games are on tv and online. Oh, and the red line was shut down for most of the year.

[ewokpelts]

Nope, haven't missed the history. What I have missed is current ownership, after 34 years of trying their hand at this, figuring out a way to turn this thing around. To win on something at least remotely resembling a consistent basis, because that's the only way to get those "bandwagon fans" to the ballpark.

 

Outside of '05, there are all of four postseason wins in the Jerry Reinsdorf era. Four. Four in the other 33 years of his ownership of the ball club. Part of the reason there was only $18K "paid" attendance on a lovely summer night at a game featuring Sale v. Scherzer, with Abreu and Cabrera also in the house.

The Sox either break even or turn a profit most years. They HAVE "figured it out" financially at least.

The attendance issue affects only the fans and the ticket sales staff for the sox.

 

[Iwritecode]

When the Sox had Maggs, CLee, Big Hurt...their attendance wasn't even average. According to Caulfield's post, they weren't even average when they won the division in 2000 or when they won the WS in 2005.

 

Wasn't there a 10-15 year stretch where the White Sox won more games than just about everyone except for 3 or 4 teams?

 

Yea, the Sox are really good at finishing in 2nd place. They’ve managed it 9 times in the 19 years the AL central has existed.

[BigEdWalsh]

Yea, the Sox are really good at finishing in 2nd place. They’ve managed it 9 times in the 19 years the AL central has existed.

Pretty good at it before that too.

[Thad Bosley]

Actually, the fact that the sox drew more in 2013 than 1970 is impressive, considering that tickets were MUCH cheaper in 1970, and all games are on tv and online. Oh, and the red line was shut down for most of the year.

So you are "impressed" that the Sox drew more than 495,000 fans in 2013, which is what they drew in that magical season of 1970. Ok then!

[Thad Bosley]

The Sox either break even or turn a profit most years. They HAVE "figured it out" financially at least.

The attendance issue affects only the fans and the ticket sales staff for the sox.

Well I'm very glad to hear that they have figured it out financially for themselves. I'm not sure why you or I as fans really care about that, but whatever. Aren't you a tad more interested in the product on the field, though? Wouldn't you like to see the team make it to the playoffs more than once every seven or eight years? Because that's all we've gotten during the last 34 years, and that's why there's only a bandwagon fan base (and not even a very good one at that!), and why the park is more than half empty every single day. But hey - they "HAVE figured it out financially at least" so who am I to complain!

[greg775]

Well I'm very glad to hear that they have figured it out financially for themselves. I'm not sure why you or I as fans really care about that, but whatever. Aren't you a tad more interested in the product on the field, though? Wouldn't you like to see the team make it to the playoffs more than once every seven or eight years? Because that's all we've gotten during the last 34 years, and that's why there's only a bandwagon fan base (and not even a very good one at that!), and why the park is more than half empty every single day. But hey - they "HAVE figured it out financially at least" so who am I to complain!

 

Great thread. I wish we could have a frontoffice do-over back to 2005. Upon winning that title, the Sox should have had been able to ride that momentum to consistent greatness. I bet KW would have made some badass tinkering moves had he known what ridiculously dismal years would follow the greatest sports moment of all Sox fans' lives.

[southsider2k5]

Well I'm very glad to hear that they have figured it out financially for themselves. I'm not sure why you or I as fans really care about that, but whatever. Aren't you a tad more interested in the product on the field, though? Wouldn't you like to see the team make it to the playoffs more than once every seven or eight years? Because that's all we've gotten during the last 34 years, and that's why there's only a bandwagon fan base (and not even a very good one at that!), and why the park is more than half empty every single day. But hey - they "HAVE figured it out financially at least" so who am I to complain!

 

It is more of a statement on the fans than anything else. We play in a town where the other team never wins, yet is always way ahead of us in attendance, so it isn't just WINNING. We have a bandwagon fan base that is better at making excuses than actually showing up.

[Thad Bosley]

It is more of a statement on the fans than anything else. We play in a town where the other team never wins, yet is always way ahead of us in attendance, so it isn't just WINNING. We have a bandwagon fan base that is better at making excuses than actually showing up.

A bandwagon fan base that has only seen said bandwagon five times in the first 33 years of the current ownership's reign.

[caulfield12]

Great thread. I wish we could have a frontoffice do-over back to 2005. Upon winning that title, the Sox should have had been able to ride that momentum to consistent greatness. I bet KW would have made some badass tinkering moves had he known what ridiculously dismal years would follow the greatest sports moment of all Sox fans' lives.

 

 

Redo/undo the Javy and Thome trades? Keep Rowand and Everett for leadership values? Would Chris Young's presence in 2007 have kept that team from falling apart, along with a young Gio Gonzalez?

 

They still had Brandon McCarthy in the organization entering 2006 and the pitching (starting and bullpen) didn't have enough strength to make it through the 2nd half. A lot of the starting pitchers wore down that year because of the 2005 workload (especially Garcia and Contreras), and Jenks was hurt as well.

 

Then 2007.

 

It's a little bit like the Spanish team in the 2010 World Cup peaking at that moment. It was sort of a perfect storm. No matter what you do, it's almost impossible (except for the San Antonio Spurs) to build the kind of organization that can win 5 championships and make so many playoff appearances over a consecutive period (or the Braves). The Phillies were on top of the world five years ago, and look at them now. Or the Rays. Everything comes and goes in cycles.

Edited June 19, 2014 by caulfield12

[ewokpelts]

So you are "impressed" that the Sox drew more than 495,000 fans in 2013, which is what they drew in that magical season of 1970. Ok then!

Are you high?

[Eminor3rd]

Well I'm very glad to hear that they have figured it out financially for themselves. I'm not sure why you or I as fans really care about that, but whatever. Aren't you a tad more interested in the product on the field, though?

 

Do seriously not understand that those two things are directly linked?

[ewokpelts]

Well I'm very glad to hear that they have figured it out financially for themselves. I'm not sure why you or I as fans really care about that, but whatever. Aren't you a tad more interested in the product on the field, though? Wouldn't you like to see the team make it to the playoffs more than once every seven or eight years? Because that's all we've gotten during the last 34 years, and that's why there's only a bandwagon fan base (and not even a very good one at that!), and why the park is more than half empty every single day. But hey - they "HAVE figured it out financially at least" so who am I to complain!

The sox have drawn more consistently under Reinsdorf and co than under any other ownership group.

They are more or less debt free( unlike the cubs) and have the financial flexibility to make moves.

This factors heavily into what Hahn, Kenny, and the front office can do.

 

So yes, I do care about that.

 

The sox also are not reliant on ticket sales to pay for the club. They get 50 million just from comcast games.

 

So how bout you shut up and let the adults have this conversation.

[ewokpelts]

It is more of a statement on the fans than anything else. We play in a town where the other team never wins, yet is always way ahead of us in attendance, so it isn't just WINNING. We have a bandwagon fan base that is better at making excuses than actually showing up.

I don't think this is a bandwagon fanbase. Just a fickle and petty one

[southsider2k5]

A bandwagon fan base that has only seen said bandwagon five times in the first 33 years of the current ownership's reign.

 

Even when they were winning, they still didn't show up. 2008 was lower than 2007. 2012 was lower than 2011. Even the "WINNING" thing is BS honestly.

[Eminor3rd]

Even when they were winning, they still didn't show up. 2008 was lower than 2007. 2012 was lower than 2011. Even the "WINNING" thing is BS honestly.

 

It takes consistency and it takes more than just finishing over .500. People respond to a shot at a championship.

[southsider2k5]

It takes consistency and it takes more than just finishing over .500. People respond to a shot at a championship.

 

The White Sox have been one of the most consistent organizations out there, and in contention almost every single year. They won a division in 2008, attendance fell short of the previous year. They were in first place for all but the last two weeks of the season in 2012, attendance was still down over 2011.

 

Unless by consistency, you literally mean win the division almost every single year, all of the myths of when Sox fans will actually show up are pretty well busted, unless a World Series is actually won.

 

I think a lot of people were fooled into thinking that the spike after 2005 was "normal", and it has been eroding every year since, no matter what this team does. Even when they have won, attendance is still down. There are some who need to re-set their expectations, because they aren't reality.

 

[Eminor3rd]

The White Sox have been one of the most consistent organizations out there, and in contention almost every single year. They won a division in 2008, attendance fell short of the previous year. They were in first place for all but the last two weeks of the season in 2012, attendance was still down over 2011.

 

Unless by consistency, you literally mean win the division almost every single year, all of the myths of when Sox fans will actually show up are pretty well busted, unless a World Series is actually won.

 

I think a lot of people were fooled into thinking that the spike after 2005 was "normal", and it has been eroding every year since, no matter what this team does. Even when they have won, attendance is still down. There are some who need to re-set their expectations, because they aren't reality.

 

I do mean win the division almost every year. Other teams have runs of several years of relative dominance before being usurped. The White Sox have been "in it" a lot, but we have never been the "top dog" in the division for any length of time and we have one championship in 100 years basically.

[ewokpelts]

The 2007-2008 attendance needs to be looked at in a different light.

 

The abortion known as 2007 made a LOT of season ticket holders drop tickets. Where there was once a waiting list there was now the sox begging accounts to stay.

 

My brother had four full season tickets on my plan, and dropped them due to the poor performance of the team and the massive losses he took in unwanted/unneeded games.

 

The 2008 attendance was saved by the high walk up/online sales due to both Chicago teams in first place throughout the summer. I sold my cubs/sox tix for a ton of money that year.

 

If 07 was a 500 team that contended throughout, you would have had more accounts stay. And a higher attendance thanks to 08's success.

[ewokpelts]

Also of note:

The sox gave out a TON of tickets this year. Two surveys in the offseason, plus the kids club having four free tix handed put per member, AND they gave out April tix on fan appreciation day last year.

 

Comps do not count in the attendance rolls, so the sox' goodwill gesture is not as obvious.

[southsider2k5]

The 2007-2008 attendance needs to be looked at in a different light.

 

The abortion known as 2007 made a LOT of season ticket holders drop tickets. Where there was once a waiting list there was now the sox begging accounts to stay.

 

My brother had four full season tickets on my plan, and dropped them due to the poor performance of the team and the massive losses he took in unwanted/unneeded games.

 

The 2008 attendance was saved by the high walk up/online sales due to both Chicago teams in first place throughout the summer. I sold my cubs/sox tix for a ton of money that year.

 

If 07 was a 500 team that contended throughout, you would have had more accounts stay. And a higher attendance thanks to 08's success.

 

If the excuse is based on the trailing year, 2009 was down as well, after winning a division title and one of the most exciting chases in team history.

[Thad Bosley]

Also of note:

The sox gave out a TON of tickets this year. Two surveys in the offseason, plus the kids club having four free tix handed put per member, AND they gave out April tix on fan appreciation day last year.

 

Comps do not count in the attendance rolls, so the sox' goodwill gesture is not as obvious.

If you're telling us that these tiny crowds we see at the ballpark everyday include a whole bunch of freebies, then the problem is worse than I thought.

[Eminor3rd]

If you're telling us that these tiny crowds we see at the ballpark everyday include a whole bunch of freebies, then the problem is worse than I thought.

 

I just noticed you're in NYC. Do you ever come to Staten Island Yankees games? You should come one night and argue with me about attendance

[Thad Bosley]

I just noticed you're in NYC. Do you ever come to Staten Island Yankees games? You should come one night and argue with me about attendance

Ha! I've reached my quota in terms of talking about poor attendance. I simply cannot take on another team's problems. But I'll join you anytime for a game out there, and at least help the S.I. Yanks with their attendance issues!

[Eminor3rd]

Ha! I've reached my quota in terms of talking about poor attendance. I simply cannot take on another team's problems. But I'll join you anytime for a game out there, and at least help the S.I. Yanks with their attendance issues!

 

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