Attendance

[southsider2k5]

No, anyplace outside the city (or one of the few close suburbs connected to an L line) would have been worse. I can't think of anyplace in the city that had land available that would have been a better fit.

 

In hindsight, what would have helped would have been:

 

1) Orienting the park to have a direct view of downtown from behind home plate

 

2) Having green seats and the smaller upper deck from the start

 

3) Getting some businesses (restaurants, retail shops) on the property from the start, even if it meant having one less parking lot

 

I think in 1990 they could have strung together enough space south of the downtown area. It was all warehouses and dumps then. Today it is actually fairly built up.

[IlliniKrush]

I would never, ever go to a game if it were in sw suburbs.

 

I love where sox stadium is. It has 2 major CTA train lines. It is right off of a major highway. It also has metra stops directly along it's route.

 

I understand the criticism of "not enough stuff to do around park" but if it's that the stadium is hard to get to you aren't going to fix that going to the suburbs.

You're one of few people who loves the location. It's convenient for people near a line, or that metra line, maybe. Suburbanites? Very tough. Sure it's on a highway but getting through the circle is a nightmare (even after games). Plus, there aren't a ton of people coming from directly south of the cell using that highway.

[southsider2k5]

You're one of few people who loves the location. It's convenient for people near a line, or that metra line, maybe. Suburbanites? Very tough. Sure it's on a highway but getting through the circle is a nightmare (even after games). Plus, there aren't a ton of people coming from directly south of the cell using that highway.

 

On a personal note, I know it will be a nightmare during the project, but I can't wait until they rebuild the Circle. That is such a clusterf*** right now.

[jasonxctf]

for the casual fan, i wonder how much having an empty stadium on TV, effects their decision to go or not go.

 

Horrible example, but how often do you walk/drive by an empty restaurant and want to go in. (again casual fan)

 

Would it make sense, to let upper deck patrons come down to the bottom levels at some point during the game? Open up un-used tickets for re-sale for $5 or something to that effect.

 

If you dont come by the 5th, those in the UD can purchase LD tickets for $5 to sit down there for the last 4 innings? Make a few extra $.

[southsider2k5]

for the casual fan, i wonder how much having an empty stadium on TV, effects their decision to go or not go.

 

Horrible example, but how often do you walk/drive by an empty restaurant and want to go in. (again casual fan)

 

Would it make sense, to let upper deck patrons come down to the bottom levels at some point during the game? Open up un-used tickets for re-sale for $5 or something to that effect.

 

If you dont come by the 5th, those in the UD can purchase LD tickets for $5 to sit down there for the last 4 innings? Make a few extra $.

 

Sounds strange, but I am more likely to go on a whim if I know it will be empty.

[jasonxctf]

Sounds strange, but I am more likely to go on a whim if I know it will be empty.

 

but you clearly arent a casual fan.

[SnB]

Sounds strange, but I am more likely to go on a whim if I know it will be empty.

Me too.

 

If it's an important game (playoff/blackout, etc), then I want a full house. However, if it's an average regular season game I know I'll enjoy myself alot more if its not as crowded. Less lines, less traffic and less drunken idiots yelling the whole game. I'm not a patient man.

[IlliniKrush]

Me too.

 

If it's an important game (playoff/blackout, etc), then I want a full house. However, if it's an average regular season game I know I'll enjoy myself alot more if its not as crowded. Less lines, less traffic and less drunken idiots yelling the whole game. I'm not a patient man.

It's OK, not everyone can be so patient.

[bmags]

You're one of few people who loves the location. It's convenient for people near a line, or that metra line, maybe. Suburbanites? Very tough. Sure it's on a highway but getting through the circle is a nightmare (even after games). Plus, there aren't a ton of people coming from directly south of the cell using that highway.

 

It's not that I love the location but I've not seen other options that were better. If you are in NW suburbs, in all likelihood there is not going to be an option that makes your travel significantly better. Same with travel from the West. But what you will lose by moving out there is the 50% of Chicago households who don't own cars.

[Iwritecode]

Chicago is the third largest market in the USA and we drew 18,000, pathetic and embarrassing. Don't tell me it was Mothers day, it was Mothers Day all over the country, Baltimore had 45,000, Milwaukee, LA and NY all over 40,000. We are getting outdrawn by the Rays and the Marlins. Where are all the Sox fans? Down through the years we have had lousy ownership from cheap Charles Comiskey, to underfunded Bill Veeck to the current regime who if we hadn't won in 2005 we would begging them to sell. This franchise has never made the post-season 2 years in a row, that's amazing. High prices for seats and parking plus a lousy location not to mention alienating the fan base many times many times through the years has led to a very apathetic fan base and it saddens me to no end. I may be wrong but I think the franchise is in trouble and when the lease is up do not be surprised it the Sox move to another town.

 

You basically answered your own question. Quite a few others have mentioned it as well but the only "fix" that will make any kind of dent in the attendance is winning. Consistent winning.

 

History proves this year after year after year. All the advertising, promotions, give-aways and ticket prices in the world won't do anything if the team isn't winning.

 

I'm amazed we have this same discussion every single year.

[IlliniKrush]

It's not that I love the location but I've not seen other options that were better. If you are in NW suburbs, in all likelihood there is not going to be an option that makes your travel significantly better. Same with travel from the West. But what you will lose by moving out there is the 50% of Chicago households who don't own cars.

Any travel from the north, northwest, and west is tough. It'd be interesting to see the demographics on where fans are coming from throughout the season (or hell even by mode of transportation). Sure you will lose some Chicago households, but you move to the suburbs and you pick up a lot more of those people. Obviously, there's no way to tell how the trade off would work without actually doing it. But I just don't buy that a move to the suburbs would be "terrible" for the Sox. Attendance is already bad. They are trying to draw more families (look at the marketing the past few years). Most of those families are in the suburbs. And most city people are Cubs fans anyway. You're not getting a ton of people coming down from the North side of the city, and post game, you sure aren't seeing many take that Red line south.

 

It's to the point with the Sox that they are are almost a minor league team - week days are going to suck almost no matter what, so you you just drum up as much interest in family/group outings for weekends as possible.

Edited May 12, 2014 by IlliniKrush

[greg775]

Any travel from the north, northwest, and west is tough. It'd be interesting to see the demographics on where fans are coming from throughout the season (or hell even by mode of transportation). Sure you will lose some Chicago households, but you move to the suburbs and you pick up a lot more of those people. Obviously, there's no way to tell how the trade off would work without actually doing it. But I just don't buy that a move to the suburbs would be "terrible" for the Sox. Attendance is already bad. They are trying to draw more families (look at the marketing the past few years). Most of those families are in the suburbs. And most city people are Cubs fans anyway. You're not getting a ton of people coming down from the North side of the city, and post game, you sure aren't seeing many take that Red line south.

 

It's to the point with the Sox that they are are almost a minor league team - week days are going to suck almost no matter what, so you you just drum up as much interest in family/group outings for weekends as possible.

 

That's a pretty good post all the way around. Remember Sox attendance does suck and it probably would be VERY SMART of the Sox to move to Lisle where their academy is and just go for suburbia. Lisle is very close to Chicago and if you put the stadium close to the highway exit it might be the way to go. The key is to pick a suburb where the traffic congestion off the highway won't be insane. It would take a study as to which suburb is best. But there's no reason to stay put in the city. Like you said the Cubs own the city. The Sox attendance already sucks. Build an AMAZING stadium in suburbs with Sox money and cha-ching. Sox equal suburban team. The location of the current stadium is ridiculously bad.

[Balta1701]

That's a pretty good post all the way around. Remember Sox attendance does suck and it probably would be VERY SMART of the Sox to move to Lisle where their academy is and just go for suburbia. Lisle is very close to Chicago and if you put the stadium close to the highway exit it might be the way to go. The key is to pick a suburb where the traffic congestion off the highway won't be insane. It would take a study as to which suburb is best. But there's no reason to stay put in the city. Like you said the Cubs own the city. The Sox attendance already sucks. Build an AMAZING stadium in suburbs with Sox money and cha-ching. Sox equal suburban team. The location of the current stadium is ridiculously bad.

Just to point it out...putting a stadium in a location where there are no good transit options other than highway driving, especially if you're expecting that stadium to last 30+ years, is simply not smart. It's a recipe for disaster over the next few decades.

[cabiness42]

That's a pretty good post all the way around. Remember Sox attendance does suck and it probably would be VERY SMART of the Sox to move to Lisle where their academy is and just go for suburbia. Lisle is very close to Chicago and if you put the stadium close to the highway exit it might be the way to go. The key is to pick a suburb where the traffic congestion off the highway won't be insane. It would take a study as to which suburb is best. But there's no reason to stay put in the city. Like you said the Cubs own the city. The Sox attendance already sucks. Build an AMAZING stadium in suburbs with Sox money and cha-ching. Sox equal suburban team. The location of the current stadium is ridiculously bad.

 

 

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/04...,41.507,-87.470

 

This map doesn't support putting something in Lisle. If you are going to go outside the city, best bet would probably be around Bridgeview/Justice, near where the Tri-State and Stevenson meet. Don't know how feasible it would be to extend the Orange line out there, but that would make it even better if that could be done. I still think the current site is best, though. The Robert Taylor homes have come down, the Circle Interchange is getting fixed, new food/drink options in the area. The valid arguments against going to games in that location are starting to get less valid.

[Marty34]

It all comes down to winning. The Hawks are winning. When they were not, they occassionally had tickets for FREE on ticketmaster.com, and still didn't have half the seats full.

 

The White Sox need to win consistently. It has to be where making the playoffs is the expectation year after year, not hoping to get in once every 5 or 6 season. Then, attendance will be fine.

 

Yep and it's a sad commentary that they have 1 playoff victory since 2005 and have never made the postseason back-to-back years considering the division they are in.

[greg775]

Just to point it out...putting a stadium in a location where there are no good transit options other than highway driving, especially if you're expecting that stadium to last 30+ years, is simply not smart. It's a recipe for disaster over the next few decades.

Kansas City has no transit system. Fans get in their cars and go. I think suburbia would support the Sox pretty well. People that want to see a Sox game or two would get in their cars and go to the games. How many fans nowadays who can afford tickets end up taking transit to the Cell for night games where the thought is you'll get mugged? I can understand you saying suburbia isn't the answer, but I don't see why you need transit. The suburbanites all have cars. Now will they want to pay the exorbitant Sox parking fees, I dunno. There comes a point an intelligent person just can't see paying $40 bucks or whatever it is to have your car sit in a lot for 3 hours.

 

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/04...,41.507,-87.470

 

This map doesn't support putting something in Lisle. If you are going to go outside the city, best bet would probably be around Bridgeview/Justice, near where the Tri-State and Stevenson meet. Don't know how feasible it would be to extend the Orange line out there, but that would make it even better if that could be done. I still think the current site is best, though. The Robert Taylor homes have come down, the Circle Interchange is getting fixed, new food/drink options in the area. The valid arguments against going to games in that location are starting to get less valid.

 

Is it better to have two highway options? If everybody got off in Lisle you mean it'd be backed up forever? What about way out in Naperville, Bolingbrook or over the other way in Schaumburg??

Edited May 13, 2014 by greg775

[Eminor3rd]

Kansas City has no transit system. Fans get in their cars and go. I think suburbia would support the Sox pretty well. People that want to see a Sox game or two would get in their cars and go to the games. How many fans nowadays who can afford tickets end up taking transit to the Cell for night games where the thought is you'll get mugged? I can understand you saying suburbia isn't the answer, but I don't see why you need transit. The suburbanites all have cars. Now will they want to pay the exorbitant Sox parking fees, I dunno. There comes a point an intelligent person just can't see paying $40 bucks or whatever it is to have your car sit in a lot for 3 hours.

 

Kansas City is not Chicago.

 

Removing public transit access from the third largest metropolitan city in the nation, which also happens to be politically liberal even moreso than a typical massive city, would instantly alienate a massive component of the fanbase, almost exclusively among the 30 and under crowd, which is vital for long-term success.

Edited May 13, 2014 by Eminor3rd

[Balta1701]

Kansas City is not Chicago.

 

Removing public transit access from the third largest metropolitan city in the nation, which also happens to be politically liberal even moreso than a typical massive city, would instantly alienate a massive component of the fanbase, almost exclusively among the 30 and under crowd, which is vital for long-term success.

And on top of that, there is every reason to believe that over the lifetime of a ballpark there will be several more large spikes in fuel prices.

[bmags]

Kansas City has no transit system. Fans get in their cars and go. I think suburbia would support the Sox pretty well. People that want to see a Sox game or two would get in their cars and go to the games. How many fans nowadays who can afford tickets end up taking transit to the Cell for night games where the thought is you'll get mugged? I can understand you saying suburbia isn't the answer, but I don't see why you need transit. The suburbanites all have cars. Now will they want to pay the exorbitant Sox parking fees, I dunno. There comes a point an intelligent person just can't see paying $40 bucks or whatever it is to have your car sit in a lot for 3 hours.

 

 

 

Is it better to have two highway options? If everybody got off in Lisle you mean it'd be backed up forever? What about way out in Naperville, Bolingbrook or over the other way in Schaumburg??

 

First off, Kauffman Stadium is only 7 miles from downtown KC. Second, downtown KC isn't that dense, like St. Louis most of the population is living in surrounding areas. Naperville is 30 miles away. [edit] THIRD, parking is not $40.

 

[edit] Also, many fans take the red line/green line back from the stadium. They are either taking it north to go back to union station, or they are going to their other cta trainline. I have not heard of people scared of being robbed for over a decade. You are walking to and from major trainlines with dozens of people. That's not a great target for a robbery.

Edited May 13, 2014 by bmags

[Buehrle>Wood]

Nobody is going south of 35th on the red

Edited May 13, 2014 by Buehrle>Wood

[Tannerfan]

Nobody is going south of 35th on the red

 

So by nobody you mean white people?

[Buehrle>Wood]

So by nobody you mean white people?

Yes.

 

 

 

I really meant people from the game no matter the race. But yeah no white people either.

Edited May 13, 2014 by Buehrle>Wood

[Tannerfan]

Yes

 

So black people are nobody's.

Sad.

[Buehrle>Wood]

So black people are nobody's.

Sad.

[cabiness42]

I agree with everything said here. I take both the red and green line to the game and the only problem that has ever come about was a drunk homeless guy. Even then, all he was doing was hassling someone for a cigarette.

 

I lived in Oak Park for 5+ years and took the Green Line to over 50 games and never once had a single problem, and on weeknights I was often the only white person on the train past the Ashland stop. People who are afraid to take public transit to the games must live extremely sheltered lives.