Finding a #2 hitter

[hammerhead johnson]

This is a swell debate that's spread out over multiple threads.

 

Candidates:

 

Alexei Ramirez - Has a 79 wRC+ since the beginning of 2012 (1300 plate appearances). Take Darwin Barney's 62 wRC+ out of the picture, and Alexei is in the discussion for worst full-time offensive player in the majors over that time frame. We'll let him live because of his glove. White Sox fans who mention him as a candidate for the #2 hole should be taken out back and shot.

 

Alejandro De Aza - Basically an even 100 wRC+ type, so he's not dreadful, which is something. He doesn't get on base enough to justify batting in the 2 hole. Still looks like Ted Williams when you compare him to Alexei Ramirez.

 

Avisail Garcia - Horrendous plate discipline, but he posted obscenely high BABIP figures throughout his 5 year minor league career. I don't know quite what to make of this one, except to say that I smell a K-Dub acquisition.

 

Gordon Beckham - Made a quantum leap last year when he went from the .290 OBP range all the way up to .320. That's some serious cause for celebration. He's a Triple A lifer with a hot wife.

 

Marcus Semien - Had 110 walks and 130 runs spread out over 4 levels in 2013. He posted those numbers in damn near 800 plate appearances, but it's still impressive. Had a 17.5% walk rate and 170 wRC+ in close to 500 Double A at bats. He could turn out to be the only competent hitter that Kenny Williams ever drafted, so if you thought the pressure of hitting in the 2 hole was immense, then think again.

 

From what I can gather, the only real option here is Semien. I suppose that De Aza is a decent backup plan if Marcus fails miserably over an extended period of time.

[Eminor3rd]

Semien is ideal when/if he is ML ready. We need OBP in the two-hole more than anything else. In the mean time, it may as well be the hottest hand.

[ILMOU]

Semien is ideal when/if he is ML ready. We need OBP in the two-hole more than anything else. In the mean time, it may as well be the hottest hand.

This. The ideal guy if Semien doesn't work out may not be in the system.

[southsider2k5]

Semien is ideal when/if he is ML ready. We need OBP in the two-hole more than anything else. In the mean time, it may as well be the hottest hand.

 

Semien is only here until Gordon gets back. I have to believe that has been the plan all along. That makes me guess that Gordon is the two hole hitter once he gets back.

[justBLAZE]

Semien is only here until Gordon gets back. I have to believe that has been the plan all along. That makes me guess that Gordon is the two hole hitter once he gets back.

 

Yep, there has been much talk about Gordon in the two hole, I think that's where they put him once he's back.

[SoxAce]

This is a swell debate that's spread out over multiple threads.

 

Candidates:

 

Alexei Ramirez - Has a 79 wRC+ since the beginning of 2012 (1300 plate appearances). Take Darwin Barney's 62 wRC+ out of the picture, and Alexei is in the discussion for worst full-time offensive player in the majors over that time frame. We'll let him live because of his glove. White Sox fans who mention him as a candidate for the #2 hole should be taken out back and shot.

 

Alejandro De Aza - Basically an even 100 wRC+ type, so he's not dreadful, which is something. He doesn't get on base enough to justify batting in the 2 hole. Still looks like Ted Williams when you compare him to Alexei Ramirez.

 

Avisail Garcia - Horrendous plate discipline, but he posted obscenely high BABIP figures throughout his 5 year minor league career. I don't know quite what to make of this one, except to say that I smell a K-Dub acquisition.

 

Gordon Beckham - Made a quantum leap last year when he went from the .290 OBP range all the way up to .320. That's some serious cause for celebration. He's a Triple A lifer with a hot wife.

 

Marcus Semien - Had 110 walks and 130 runs spread out over 4 levels in 2013. He posted those numbers in damn near 800 plate appearances, but it's still impressive. Had a 17.5% walk rate and 170 wRC+ in close to 500 Double A at bats. He could turn out to be the only competent hitter that Kenny Williams ever drafted, so if you thought the pressure of hitting in the 2 hole was immense, then think again.

 

From what I can gather, the only real option here is Semien. I suppose that De Aza is a decent backup plan if Marcus fails miserably over an extended period of time.

 

Hammer, you know your one of my personal favorite posters, and I agree with you on Semien. Don't think the kid is quite ready yet, however. Ideally, I would've like to seen him in AAA to start if it wasn't for Slayer's injury (until maybe June), then ready to man the 2 spot for the next 5+ years. We will see if he can adjust accordingly though, it's still early.

Edited April 3, 2014 by SoxAce

[RockRaines]

We've played 2 games.

[southsider2k5]

Hammer, you know your one of my personal favorite posters, and I agree with you on Semien. Don't think the kid is quite ready yet, however. Ideally, I would've like to seen him in AAA to start if it wasn't for Slayer's injury (until maybe June), then ready to man the 2 spot for the next 5+ years. We will see if he can adjust accordingly though, it's still early.

 

I just want to see Semien get AB's every day. If that means he plays in Charlotte, so be it.

[TaylorStSox]

Call me old fashioned, but I just want a guy with good bat control that can work a count. Beckham has neither.

 

Any stat that says Ramirez the worst hitter in baseball is a stupid f***ing stat.

[Princess Dye]

Semien doing this and handling this ASAP solves so many issues. You want to give him a chance to get this done as he has room to grow. The best case scenarios of this impact BOTH this year and future years, because he is under our control for a long while.

 

There are just absolutely no downsides to sticking with Semien. If he struggles for a whole year, you learned about what you need going into next year. If he takes off and succeeds and gets comfortable, then you just helped your contention chances in the present as well.

 

I literally just cannot see the downside of looking for anyone else to do this.

[cabiness42]

DeAza really should bat 2nd vs RHP. I guess Semien for now vs LHP, but once Beckham gets back it's either him, Ramirez, or AGArcia, and none of them is ideal.

[TaylorStSox]

Semien doing this and handling this ASAP solves so many issues. You want to give him a chance to get this done as he has room to grow. The best case scenarios of this impact BOTH this year and future years, because he is under our control for a long while.

 

There are just absolutely no downsides to sticking with Semien. If he struggles for a whole year, you learned about what you need going into next year. If he takes off and succeeds and gets comfortable, then you just helped your contention chances in the present as well.

 

I literally just cannot see the downside of looking for anyone else to do this.

I agree. There's no reason to coddle Semien. Give him the job and let's see what we have. If he flames out, Sanchez and Johnson can step in and have a go. He's 23. He's had 1400 MiLB PA's. He's shown to be a quick study.

[Princess Dye]

I was defending ADA most the offseason and all it took was one game to make everyone do a complete 180 on him. He went from most brainless player of all time to suddenly The Guy for that decision-making-heavy role of #2 hitter.

 

Despite being an ADA supporter i dont see him as a fit for the #2hitter. He's perfect for lower in the order, LF. Great teams still need that 2 WAR no frills guy and he could be that....if we can...be great soon enough.

Edited April 3, 2014 by Jose Paniagua

[beautox]

We've played 2 games.

thank you

 

[Eminor3rd]

Any stat that says Ramirez the worst hitter in baseball is a stupid f***ing stat.

 

Don't ignore all the context the OP baked in -- he's ignoring every part-time player and Darwin Barney and is including just the last two years. Take a look at his 2012 and rethink that. Remember he plays in the Cell.

[TaylorStSox]

Don't ignore all the context the OP baked in -- he's ignoring every part-time player and Darwin Barney and is including just the last two years. Take a look at his 2012 and rethink that. Remember he plays in the Cell.

The Cell is an awful park for players that have moderate power. The gaps are incredibly small. There aren't any nuances that make it better for hitters. There's also the wind off the lake factor.

[BFirebird]

I think that having either Semien or Gordo in the 2 hole is fine. The bigger problem is a left-handed (or switch-hitting) 3 hitter. Obviously one does not exist on this team, but if they had that it would just set the lineup so nicely. And no Conor Gillaspie is NOT the answer to this problem.

 

Sorry to hijack the thread but with this one piece I think it really makes the lineup so much more formidable. I know this isn't a novel idea, but man would it be nice.

 

Eaton

Gordo/Semien

**Lefty/Switch Hitter**

Abreu

A Garcia

De Aza/Viciedo

Alexei/Semien

Davidson/Gillaspie

Catcher abyss

 

Are there any Brandon Moss/Dan Vogelbach type guys that we can pick from someone's minor leagues for a package with Alexei or something and put Semien at SS? Not looking for a superstar...just maybe a guy that can hit lefty or switch-hit and play some DH/1B. Or are there some FA's to be next year who fit that bill? Or even RF/LF/DH rotation of 3 players. De Aza/Garcia/(another lefty or switch hitter)

 

[Eminor3rd]

The Cell is an awful park for players that have moderate power. The gaps are incredibly small. There aren't any nuances that make it better for hitters. There's also the wind off the lake factor.

 

Which is one of the reasons it's so bad to only hit 6 homers in a season.

[Balta1701]

I think that having either Semien or Gordo in the 2 hole is fine. The bigger problem is a left-handed (or switch-hitting) 3 hitter. Obviously one does not exist on this team, but if they had that it would just set the lineup so nicely. And no Conor Gillaspie is NOT the answer to this problem.

 

Sorry to hijack the thread but with this one piece I think it really makes the lineup so much more formidable. I know this isn't a novel idea, but man would it be nice.

 

Eaton

Gordo/Semien

**Lefty/Switch Hitter**

Abreu

A Garcia

De Aza/Viciedo

Alexei/Semien

Davidson/Gillaspie

Catcher abyss

 

Are there any Brandon Moss/Dan Vogelbach type guys that we can pick from someone's minor leagues for a package with Alexei or something and put Semien at SS? Not looking for a superstar...just maybe a guy that can hit lefty or switch-hit and play some DH/1B. Or are there some FA's to be next year who fit that bill? Or even RF/LF/DH rotation of 3 players. De Aza/Garcia/(another lefty or switch hitter)

I think Ricky probably knows this is a problem and will be keeping an eye out for a fit. The fact that the Sox have an open DH slot next year could help with this problem; Andy Wilkins or possibly Dan Black could get a look later in the season if Dunn is moved out of the way and either of them performs at AAA well enough to merit a callup. If not, Victor Martinez and Kendrys Morales are guys who could potentially fill that role short-term next year

[BFirebird]

I think Ricky probably knows this is a problem and will be keeping an eye out for a fit. The fact that the Sox have an open DH slot next year could help with this problem; Andy Wilkins or possibly Dan Black could get a look later in the season if Dunn is moved out of the way and either of them performs at AAA well enough to merit a callup. If not, Victor Martinez and Kendrys Morales are guys who could potentially fill that role short-term next year

Ideally it would be someone in our organization, but I doubt Wilkins or Black is the answer. VMart or Morales are interesting options.

 

I feel as though you solve this before catcher if possible....unless a lefty catcher is the option.

[greg775]

DeAza really should bat 2nd vs RHP. I guess Semien for now vs LHP, but once Beckham gets back it's either him, Ramirez, or AGArcia, and none of them is ideal.

 

I agree it should be DeAza against righties.

[BaconOnAStick]

We'll let him live because of his glove.

 

LOL, If you're going to pull stats from since 2012 on and then say that, I'm sorry old yeller. He also lead our sorry ass team in batting average last year, he is a capable hitter.

Edited April 4, 2014 by BaconOnAStick

[hammerhead johnson]

LOL, If you're going to pull stats from since 2012 on and then say that, I'm sorry old yeller. He also lead our sorry ass team in batting average last year, he is a capable hitter.

 

He was merely below average before 2012. Since then, he's been particularly awful.

[Balta1701]

Ideally it would be someone in our organization, but I doubt Wilkins or Black is the answer. VMart or Morales are interesting options.

 

I feel as though you solve this before catcher if possible....unless a lefty catcher is the option.

The "middle of the order LH bat" is IMO probably easier to solve for this roster than a catcher. For the catcher they're clearly looking for a long-term solution. The LH bat is something we could plug in from the free agent market with a veteran since we have the DH slot open, and we could even cycle through more than one of those guys over a couple years. If we're signing late-in-their-career veterans, we'd still have to worry about injuries and declining performance, but the long term cost risk might be kept to a minimum.

[caulfield12]

He was merely below average before 2012. Since then, he's been particularly awful.

 

How about Castro?