Avisail Garcia's Flaws

[Eminor3rd]

I'll just say I don't have high hopes for him. I think he'll be a tantalizing cocktease for the next few years.

 

[TheTruth05]

Soxtalk was all ready to meltdown and rebuild, until it came to actually dealing with the flaws and growth of young players.

 

"Isn't Avi a young version of Miguel Cabrera?"

[TheBlackSox8]

I kinda see Garcia as a future Ordonez for a ceiling. He's got comparable numbers(exception of BBs) at same age.

Edited April 4, 2014 by onedude

[Eminor3rd]

If Avisail had options he should have been the one sent to triple A , We have a ready to play outfielder names Danks who can play outstanding defense and led our sox during spring training. Send Garcia down so he can learn the art of fielding and hitting and bring up Jordan Danks. It doesn't matter what you have invested in Garcia the best man is in Charlotte.

dy

 

His bad approach worked fine in AAA, which is problematic. To me, he needs to make his adjustments at the ML level.

[witesoxfan]

My counterpoint to that remains Jose Reyes, who started off swinging as freely as Garcia or even worse and turned himself into a solidly patient hitter.

 

I think he's the exception rather than the rule. Players will typically improve their patience and eye at the plate as they age in general, but it's usually not as drastic as Reyes. Whether they improve because they improve recognition or because pitchers are actively pitching around them more is what comes into play. My initial guess tells me that, more often than not, player's "patience" or "eye" improves because they start hitting the ball hard all the time and pitchers start pitching around them.

 

Soxtalk was all ready to meltdown and rebuild, until it came to actually dealing with the flaws and growth of young players.

 

It's not bad to look at the flaws of players. Creating discussion saying "what do we feel Player X has to do to improve his game" is constructive conversation. I don't think anyone is necessarily saying that Garcia sucks or he's a lost cause, but there are some signs that we see in his game that are really concerning.

 

I kinda see Garcia as a future Ordonez for a ceiling. He's got comparable numbers(exception of BBs) at same age.

 

My fear is that this is his ceiling, and players rarely reach their ceiling. He has great plate coverage and pretty good bat control, but he strikes out a lot more than Maggs did too.

Edited April 4, 2014 by witesoxfan

[RockRaines]

His bad approach worked fine in AAA, which is problematic. To me, he needs to make his adjustments at the ML level.

I dont think its things like Mechanics or balance like Beckham has struggled with, I think his pitch recognition needs work and it will come with playing every day at the MLB level.

 

This is rebuilding folks, young players WILL struggle and learn. I hope everyone hasnt forgotten that.

[GGajewski18]

I dont think its things like Mechanics or balance like Beckham has struggled with, I think his pitch recognition needs work and it will come with playing every day at the MLB level.

 

This is rebuilding folks, young players WILL struggle and learn. I hope everyone hasnt forgotten that.

 

I agree. It's not mechanics, its definitely pitch recognition.

[pettie4sox]

I think playing cold weather baseball was a cause of the offensive/error bursts this series. They still won 2 games and should have one the 3rd against a crappy Twin team. You could argue they could have lost Wednesdays game all day but they didn't. I want to see how they play against a contender. Not sure if KC is that test but we'll find out. I understand this is a rebuilding year but I'm pretty excited about this team. Just remember, they weren't going to go undefeated and they are going to lose some of those games. It's just baseball.

 

GO WHITE SOX!

[Balta1701]

I agree. It's not mechanics, its definitely pitch recognition.

People have disagreed and said that there is a mechanical change he may need to make to exploit his power - that he drives the ball too much into the ground, and thus hits too many ground balls/bloops.

[bmags]

I think playing cold weather baseball was a cause of the offensive/error bursts this series. They still won 2 games and should have one the 3rd against a crappy Twin team. You could argue they could have lost Wednesdays game all day but they didn't. I want to see how they play against a contender. Not sure if KC is that test but we'll find out. I understand this is a rebuilding year but I'm pretty excited about this team. Just remember, they weren't going to go undefeated and they are going to lose some of those games. It's just baseball.

 

GO WHITE SOX!

 

Doesn't cold weather typically lower offensive output?

[pettie4sox]

Doesn't cold weather typically lower offensive output?

 

That's why I combined it with errors. 5 Twins runs came from Avi playing horrendous defense. The Twins almost threw the game again with that Tank at bat. A lot of offense from errors.

[southsider2k5]

I dont think its things like Mechanics or balance like Beckham has struggled with, I think his pitch recognition needs work and it will come with playing every day at the MLB level.

 

This is rebuilding folks, young players WILL struggle and learn. I hope everyone hasnt forgotten that.

 

This is what everyone asked for. Flipping out about it after 2 or 3 days is just silly, when most were asking for 2-3 years of this.

[GGajewski18]

People have disagreed and said that there is a mechanical change he may need to make to exploit his power - that he drives the ball too much into the ground, and thus hits too many ground balls/bloops.

 

I can see that because I think he's trying to get inside on the ball on inside pitches and try to take them the other way when he needs to pull those for doubles and home runs, so I can see your point right there too.

[bmags]

[/b]

 

This is what everyone asked for. Flipping out about it after 2 or 3 days is just silly, when most were asking for 2-3 years of this.

 

Flipping out over anything in baseball after 2-3 days is silly. In 07 our bullpen looked like it would be lights out in early April and then was the worst pen I've ever had to watch ever in history of ever.

[witesoxfan]

People have disagreed and said that there is a mechanical change he may need to make to exploit his power - that he drives the ball too much into the ground, and thus hits too many ground balls/bloops.

 

I'd like to see him open his stance up a bit and maybe stand up a little straighter.

 

Frankly, that closed stance at the plate and even the way he goes about attacking the ball reminds me of Edgar Renteria. It's a bit of a defensive swing, but you can hit the ball hard and with authority, especially the other way.

 

 

 

If he could be Renteria at his peak, nobody would complain, but that offensive production is heavily dependent upon a high batting average.

Edited April 4, 2014 by witesoxfan

[Feeky Magee]

His defence has graded out as utterly horrendous this year. In just 339 innings he's managed to be worth over -8 runs. This after being put at over -11 runs in 551 innings last year. Over a full year's worth of innings that would make him the single solitary worst defensive player in the major leagues. This has meant that despite hitting at almost league-average level for the Sox, he's been worth -0.8 fWAR.

 

Now I know that a) he's young and b) defensive statistics aren't perfect, but I think it's fairly obvious he's a butcher out there and I'm not too optimistic about it improving to a playable level. Time for a move to DH?

[LDF]

[/b]

 

This is what everyone asked for. Flipping out about it after 2 or 3 days is just silly, when most were asking for 2-3 years of this.

 

but on the flip side, this kind of posting is what helps keep good discussion going. plus

I am learning more about stats.

[southsider2k5]

but on the flip side, this kind of posting is what helps keep good discussion going. plus

I am learning more about stats.

 

It is even better seeing the date on the original post.

[JoshPR]

He's no DeAza........

[Boopa1219]

I like him at first base, I think he could be a better defender there than Abreu who is really solid with the glove.

[fathom]

I still think Avi should be used as a trade chip if there is a team out there that projects him as a future star. I've watched all of his at bats closely this year, and it's amazing how much he struggles to square up any pitch over 90 mph. I'm not sure if it's due to the labrum injury, but he's going down the same path as other previous Sox youngsters like Josh Fields. I've been impressed by his ability to work the count, as he's not chasing a lot of pitches out of the zone.

[balfanman]

I still think Avi should be used as a trade chip if there is a team out there that projects him as a future star. I've watched all of his at bats closely this year, and it's amazing how much he struggles to square up any pitch over 90 mph. I'm not sure if it's due to the labrum injury, but he's going down the same path as other previous Sox youngsters like Josh Fields. I've been impressed by his ability to work the count, as he's not chasing a lot of pitches out of the zone.

 

That alone makes him very different from the other Sox prospects.

 

I don't know if he'll turn out good or not, but at least he has that going for him.

[Eminor3rd]

I still think Avi should be used as a trade chip if there is a team out there that projects him as a future star. I've watched all of his at bats closely this year, and it's amazing how much he struggles to square up any pitch over 90 mph. I'm not sure if it's due to the labrum injury, but he's going down the same path as other previous Sox youngsters like Josh Fields. I've been impressed by his ability to work the count, as he's not chasing a lot of pitches out of the zone.

 

This is false, unfortunately. Both Pitch F/X and BIS show him with a substantially above average O-Swing% this year, which the the percentage of out-of-the-zone pitches he swings at.

[fathom]

This is false, unfortunately. Both Pitch F/X and BIS show him with a substantially above average O-Swing% this year, which the the percentage of out-of-the-zone pitches he swings at.

 

Sorry, I meant the last few weeks it seems he's not chasing pitches as much. When he returned from the injury, his timing was so off he was swinging at everything. Are there stats to show his swing percentage by month?

[ottawa_sox]

He has the arm and wheels to acquit himself nicely as a right fielder. He seems like a prime candidate to benefit greatly from 'off the bat' reps to help with a quick, correct first step.

As far as offence goes, I find that I am still comfortably in the excited fan stage when he comes up.