NCAA basketball 2014-15 thread

[caulfield12]

Iowa with the nice road win over Ohio State.

 

They've already lost to Texas, Syracuse, Iowa State (massacre) and flopped against UNI at a neutral site.

 

On the other hand, they've already gotten two big victories at North Carolina and OSU.

 

IF IF IF Uthoff can keep building his confidence and they could take down Nebraska and Michigan State at home...a 3-0 start would go a long ways towards an NCAA berth. With the way they played against ISU and UNI, that didn't seem possible a week ago.

[illinilaw08]

I don't think the program was THAT bad. It wasn't a good program. It wasn't really trending upwards. But it wasn't at the bottom either. The team tanked, they knew Weber was gone, so it was a lost season. You still had 5-6 starters that Groce used heavily/uses heavily in Paul, Richardson, Griffey, Egwu and Abrams.

 

That team managed a 7 seed a tournament win. But after the four Seniors (Paul, Richardson, McClaurin, and Griffey) graduated, and the four guys transferred (Shaw, Henry, Ibby and Langford), what were you expecting last year?

 

Further, Groce's first team had 7-8 decent basketball players and went through a horrible slump until the win against Indiana because Tyler Griffey couldn't hit water falling out of a boat at the start of B1G play.

 

In year 2, you had 5 freshman (none of whom were instant impact kids) and 2 transfers sitting out. Rice, Bertrand, Abrams, Egwu and Ekey was your starting 5. And even when Hill and Nunn were ready to go, it was a very, very thin roster in terms of B1G talent. Again, no NBA talent. No top of the B1G talent.

 

This year's roster is better. For whatever reason, however, Cosby has been terrible. The Abrams injury has hurt more than we expected. And neither of Morbert has made the expected strides. It's a better team, but with Finke redshirting and Abrams hurt, this roster still only has 10 scholarship players.

 

Next year, the talent continues to get better. Still no point guard, but the overall talent gets better and Groce's initial class gets older.

 

We're all frustrated with the loss today, but to say that Groce's first two teams were extremely talented is very revisionist history. Also, let's not give up on this season and fire Groce after the first B1G game...

[Boogua]

3 of your current top 6 players? That's not enough? I'm not saying he didn't have a difficult task, but you're making it sound like he brought a program back from the death penalty. That's far from the case.

This was the roster after that first year if nobody transfers: Egwu, Abrams, Bertrand, Langford, Djimde, Shaw, Henry, and Orris (if Groce decided to keep him). Yup, lots of high level difference makers in the group.

 

I guess we can just agree to disagree. I don't think that team is all that talented. Groce brought in guys like Rice and Ekey, but they were imperfect. Especially rice in conference play.

[Jenksismyhero]

That team managed a 7 seed a tournament win. But after the four Seniors (Paul, Richardson, McClaurin, and Griffey) graduated, and the four guys transferred (Shaw, Henry, Ibby and Langford), what were you expecting last year?

 

Further, Groce's first team had 7-8 decent basketball players and went through a horrible slump until the win against Indiana because Tyler Griffey couldn't hit water falling out of a boat at the start of B1G play.

 

In year 2, you had 5 freshman (none of whom were instant impact kids) and 2 transfers sitting out. Rice, Bertrand, Abrams, Egwu and Ekey was your starting 5. And even when Hill and Nunn were ready to go, it was a very, very thin roster in terms of B1G talent. Again, no NBA talent. No top of the B1G talent.

 

This year's roster is better. For whatever reason, however, Cosby has been terrible. The Abrams injury has hurt more than we expected. And neither of Morbert has made the expected strides. It's a better team, but with Finke redshirting and Abrams hurt, this roster still only has 10 scholarship players.

 

Next year, the talent continues to get better. Still no point guard, but the overall talent gets better and Groce's initial class gets older.

 

We're all frustrated with the loss today, but to say that Groce's first two teams were extremely talented is very revisionist history. Also, let's not give up on this season and fire Groce after the first B1G game...

 

I didn't say that. And i'm not saying fire Groce right now. But if it's another sub .500 season and a missed tourney bid? Yeah, you better start looking for potential replacements even if he gets another year to work it out.

 

Are you not concerned about the annual trend of his teams losing games against high major programs? Games in which they have a lead in the 2nd half and choke it away? It's happens WAY too much.

Edited December 30, 2014 by Jenksismybitch

[Jenksismyhero]

This was the roster after that first year if nobody transfers: Egwu, Abrams, Bertrand, Langford, Djimde, Shaw, Henry, and Orris (if Groce decided to keep him). Yup, lots of high level difference makers in the group.

 

I guess we can just agree to disagree. I don't think that team is all that talented. Groce brought in guys like Rice and Ekey, but they were imperfect. Especially rice in conference play.

 

Add Rice, Nunn and Hill and a sub-.500 in conference record with only a few quality wins isn't that crazy.

[Buehrle>Wood]

Making the tournament isn't some accomplishment. It's what a bottom of the barrel Illini team should do. It doesn't take a lot of talent to do that. And if we don't make it this year, there's going to be plenty of teams with less talented rosters that grab at larges.

[Jenksismyhero]

Oh, and next year this team isn't much better. It's probably worse. You lose 4 of your top 6 players and replace them with a guard playing PG without much offensive game, 2 back-up mid-major level centers, and some freshman. You have to hope and pray Hill continues to develop into a super star, Nunn grows into an all-Big Ten caliber guy every game, Black can stay on the floor and out of foul trouble and maybe JCL gives you some shooting off the bench.

[Jenksismyhero]

Making the tournament isn't some accomplishment. It's what a bottom of the barrel Illini team should do. It doesn't take a lot of talent to do that. And if we don't make it this year, there's going to be plenty of teams with less talented rosters that grab at larges.

 

Bingo. Especially with the expanded tournament. .500 should not be that difficult to achieve.

[illinilaw08]

I didn't say that. And i'm not saying fire Groce right now. But if it's another sub .500 season and a missed tourney bid? Yeah, you better start looking for potential replacements even if he gets another year to work it out.

 

Are you not concerned about the annual trend of his teams losing games against high major programs? Games in which they have a lead in the 2nd half and choke it away? It's happens WAY too much.

 

Sure I'm concerned. But Groce's teams have closed out seasons well (including last year when they are a missed Tracy floater against Michigan from maybe making the tournament). I thought Groce exceeded expectations in Year 1 and was at expectations in Year 2.

 

But this is a long term rebuild to where Illinois was when Self left. No one was beating the door down to come to Illinois when Weber left. And there's a ton of uncertainty with changing coaches - particularly if players don't stay.

 

There's a lot of young talent on this roster and there's a lot of young talent in the pipeline. There's plenty of reason to like the direction this program is trending and the way Groce is building the program. He gets at least four years before his seat can even start to get warm...

 

 

[fathom]

I'm pretty sure I've made this same post the last two years, but Groce has always been known as a good recruiter and good tournament coach. However, his weakness has always been in-game coaching. In a very weak Big 10 this year, if he can't make the tournament, he should be on the hot seat next year.

[whitesoxfan99]

Oh, and next year this team isn't much better. It's probably worse. You lose 4 of your top 6 players and replace them with a guard playing PG without much offensive game, 2 back-up mid-major level centers, and some freshman. You have to hope and pray Hill continues to develop into a super star, Nunn grows into an all-Big Ten caliber guy every game, Black can stay on the floor and out of foul trouble and maybe JCL gives you some shooting off the bench.

 

Abrams will be back next year and that is an improvement over Starks as long as Tracy is healthy. Losing Egwu will hurt defensively but Paul will almost certainly be better offensively and on the glass. Losing Rice will hurt quite a bit but the hope there is that JCL is an impact freshman, Nunn develops and Cosby remembers how to play basketball so you will have plenty of scoring on the wing.

[whitesoxfan99]

I'm pretty sure I've made this same post the last two years, but Groce has always been known as a good recruiter and good tournament coach. However, his weakness has always been in-game coaching. In a very weak Big 10 this year, if he can't make the tournament, he should be on the hot seat next year.

 

This appears to definitely be true and while recruiting is going very well, it isn't going so well where Groce shouldn't have a very hot seat if things don't turn around quickly.

[Heads22]

Virginia down four at half at home versus Davidson.

 

Also, this Maryland-Michigan State game is a game that is happening.

[farmteam]

Reading all these comments, it seems Illini fans feel like Hoosier fans felt last year. A team that just didn't make strides it should have, and overall was pretty disappointing.

 

But hey, it's early, there's still time for this Hoosier team to suck! Should have gotten the win over Georgetown. They'll be fun to watch, though. Blackmon is a stud. Hanner is finally starting to look like a basketball player at least 40% of the time (still looks like a 6'9" rodeo clown the other 60%). Hartman is just a neat kid. Yogi's Yogi.

[Chisoxfn]

Just a horrid loss. Cant sleep walk in conference play and win with 10 minutes of effort.

Or a nice win. Iowa needed that one. Really thought they were going to do their typical choke routine when you all cut the lead to a couple points...was great to see them nail a few clutch shots. Maybe this year Iowa will finish strong vs. finish weak like they did last year. At least thus far they don't have a bad loss and they do have two good road wins (@ UNC / @ OSU).

[Boogua]

Oh, and next year this team isn't much better. It's probably worse. You lose 4 of your top 6 players and replace them with a guard playing PG without much offensive game, 2 back-up mid-major level centers, and some freshman. You have to hope and pray Hill continues to develop into a super star, Nunn grows into an all-Big Ten caliber guy every game, Black can stay on the floor and out of foul trouble and maybe JCL gives you some shooting off the bench.

You have a warped view on the team or just really dislike Groce.

 

First Groce should have been fine after losing Paul, Richardson, and Griffey because he was bringing back Abrams (aka a guard playing PG without much offensive game) and Egwu. The only other returning contributor was Bertrand. That's insane.

 

Now, Illinois should be worse next year because they bring back the same guard playing PG without much offensive game, Hill, Nunn, Black, a transfer in Paul, and at least loads of experience off the bench.

 

You then said that the first team had Nunn and Hill on it also (true freshmen). DJW is in that range of recruit and JCL is more highly rated than both.

 

I'm just not understanding the logic here. How is that first situation better than the second?

[ZoomSlowik]

I think a lot of you have unrealistic expectations for Illinois. We knew going into the season that they had mediocre bigs and questionable PG play. That's why they were widely picked to be middle of the pack in the conference. Both Michigan teams have been bigger disappointments thus far.

[gatnom]

I think a lot of you have unrealistic expectations for Illinois. We knew going into the season that they had mediocre bigs and questionable PG play. That's why they were widely picked to be middle of the pack in the conference. Both Michigan teams have been bigger disappointments thus far.

 

The losses of Abrams and Paul were bigger than most expected, and the addition of the two transfers who shot 40% from 3 (to a team that could do anything but shoot the 3) didn't exactly go as planned. Most Illinois fans did have unrealistic expectations, but we should be better than we are. I wasn't really a fan of either Michigan team pre-season, and it doesn't surprise me to see them struggle a little.

 

 

[cabiness42]

Florida's Jacob Kurtz had a huge game-winning tip in last night. Only problem is that the tip in was into Florida State's basket.

[LittleHurt05]

Florida's Jacob Kurtz had a huge game-winning tip in last night. Only problem is that the tip in was into Florida State's basket.

 

https://vine.co/v/OwXqDEx6jVW

[bigruss]

Clearly my expectations for this team were too high, really didn't think missing Tracy and Paul would be that big of a deal but it has been because not enough of the rest of the team has stepped up. Nunn has been good at times, but inconsistent (coming back from injury so makes sense), Hill has been great, Rice has been great (though wtf was he doing last night), but Cosby and Starks needed to be more than they have been. Egwu has been a disappointment as well, I think his defense has taken a step back this year, good but not great.

 

This is Groce's 3rd year, it's completely fair to criticize him for Illinois not performing at the level they should be. I want the guy to succeed to badly because I love his personality and attitude, but thus far the results have been disappointing this season.

 

And I wasn't thinking Illinois would be a top 10 team or anything, but top 25 or hovering near there without being "on the bubble" is what I expected, a top 6 Big Ten finish (didn't see Mich being this bad but knew MSU would struggle and didn't think Nebraska would carry over as well due to a tougher schedule) didn't seem crazy. Instead we have a team that plays well but then doesn't know how to finish games at all, and that's a coaching issue.

 

Lots of season left, and I don't think Groce gets fired at all this season unless we completely tank (like bottom 4 of the Big Ten tank), but it's going to be a serious struggle to make the tourney and as Groce said in preseason, it's an expectation that Illinois is in the tourney every year.

[farmteam]

Last year there was no way IU wins if Yogi only scores 5. Much more balanced offense this year. Nice to start off Big Ten play with a road win.

[whitesoxfan99]

Marcus Foster should have transferred from KSU to play for a real coach after his freshman year.

[Heads22]

Marcus Foster should have transferred from KSU to play for a real coach after his freshman year.

 

He'd have to sit out an extra year to transfer to Iowa State

[whitesoxfan99]

He'd have to sit out an extra year to transfer to Iowa State

 

Well Weber has apparently decided its a good idea to sit out his best player so definitely would have been worth it.