NCAA basketball 2014-15 thread

[illinilaw08]

Tate. Tate isn't a threat offensively, although he's shown that he's capable of driving and getting some FT's or hitting a jumpshot every now and again. What he does do is run the offense better. He's a better passer. He understands how to dribble into the lane and pass to an open shooter. I get that the roster isn't 100% and isn't what Groce was planning, but it's called adjustments. That's what good coaches do. I haven't seen it yet from this guy.

 

Also totally disagree on the run and gun comments. That's how you attack good defenses with terrible offenses. I'm not saying you run down the court and jack up a three (they do that anyway!) i'm saying you quickly get into your set to maximize the number of possessions you have when you know the other team on their offensive possession is going to take the entire shot clock and won't be very efficient scoring the ball. I saw (and continue to see) way too much Weber bulls*** offense where everyone is at the three point line, passing for 30 seconds before jacking up a contested three. It's garbage offense and hasn't, and doesn't, work unless everyone is on fire (the Maryland game).

 

I mean, someone explain to me why they weren't doing some ISO post plays for Hill? Why is it that after 4 years Egwu hasn't learned to look for a cutter during his post "moves" (I think i've seen him pass one time out of the post in about 50 attempts this season). Why aren't they running designed plays to get Egwu an open 15 footer on the baseline which he's deadly at? Why is it either terrible post move or 3 pt shot from him?

 

Snider is absolutely the biggest issue here. He changes the trajectory of this entire program if he honors that verbal. As it is, this program is stuck out of the big dance unless Murray reclassifies or JCL becomes the best freshman in the conference next year. I don't see this team being any better next year with the additions of Abrams, Paul and JCL and the losses of Rice and Egwu. Jesus, we have to rely on Maverick Morgan and Darius Paul for an entire season. That's scary.

 

There were a handful of occasions in the second half where Illinois ran ISO for Hill who attempted to post up smaller defenders. Hill ended up getting moved out of the post each time and catching the ball 17 feet from the basket, not being able to back the defender down, and forcing a tough, contested shot. Right now, Hill post up isn't a great option.

 

Nebraska was running two or three defenders at Egwu every time he caught the ball in the post (4 or 5 times by my recollection). They also weren't guarding Tate at all beyond 15 feet, really restricting the ability to find space for Egwu to get 15 footers.

 

The problem for Illinois is that, if teams don't guard Tate past 15 feet, you are playing 4 on 5 every time down. If Starks is taking horrible, ill advised shots, you are playing 4 on 5 each time down. It's really difficult to run a competent offense with point guards who provide that little value offensively.

 

My evaluation of Groce through this point in his Illinois career? He's an above average defensive coach who is very good at keeping his teams positive through adversity. Clearly, as an offensive coach, he needs a point guard who can score and pass off the bounce - Brandon Paul is the closest thing he's had to that at Illinois, so his offenses have struggled.

 

If Groce continues to be unable to close on point guards (no PG in the '16 class is unacceptable - at least Tracy can handle the position next year), or if JCL hasn't shown the ability to run the point, and the offense still doesn't look fluid, then Groce's seat gets warm.

 

EDIT: Tate is 2-31 from 3 in his college career. Tate shooting more from the outside is definitely not the answer.

Edited January 13, 2015 by illinilaw08

[gatnom]

Then if you're Groce you tell Tate to take 10 shots in a game to keep the defense honest. They both shoot about the same percent (32% for Starks on 3 times as many shots, 40% for Tate).

 

The fact that Tate was unwilling to even try to shoot in many wide open situations indicates to me that he thinks it's not a shot he's going to make at a reasonable rate. My overall point is that [insert your favorite coach here] couldn't win with this roster performing the way it is right now. And while the roster is mostly on Groce at this point, I'm not sure how much is player performance and how much is strategy when we have maybe 4 healthy guys at best who are deserving of any sizable amount of playing time.

 

 

[Heads22]

Wow, B12 with SEVEN ranked teams right now. That doesn't include a significantly improved TCU program, or a dangerous KSU team. TT may be the only weak team in the entire conference.

 

 

OU got thumped tonight at West Virginia.

 

This town is more than a little pumped for College Gameday.

[caulfield12]

Blowing a 17 point lead to an 0-4 Minnesota team, even on the road.

 

Inexcusable.

 

Mentally weak.

 

McCaffrey's one season away from being fired, as they're unlikely to improve much with White graduating.

 

 

 

I am posting this anyway while breathing a huge sigh of relief. Went down by four before eventually pulling the game out. Would have been a season killer IMO.

 

OSU (for first place) at home, at Wisconsin and at Purdue the next three. Would take 1-2 and hoping for 2-1.

[caulfield12]

Blowing a 17 point lead to an 0-4 Minnesota team, even on the road.

 

Inexcusable.

 

Mentally weak.

 

McCaffrey's one season away from being fired, as they're unlikely to improve much with White graduating.

 

 

 

I am posting this anyway while breathing a huge sigh of relief. Went down by four before eventually pulling the game out. Would have been a season killer IMO.

 

OSU (for first place) at home, at Wisconsin and at Purdue the next three. Would take 1-2 and hoping for 2-1.

[zenryan]

Miami puts a beatdown on Duke in the second half.

 

 

so pissed Miami blew that OT lead against UVA. Should be 3-0 in ACC play.

[Chisoxfn]

Blowing a 17 point lead to an 0-4 Minnesota team, even on the road.

 

Inexcusable.

 

Mentally weak.

 

McCaffrey's one season away from being fired, as they're unlikely to improve much with White graduating.

 

 

 

I am posting this anyway while breathing a huge sigh of relief. Went down by four before eventually pulling the game out. Would have been a season killer IMO.

 

OSU (for first place) at home, at Wisconsin and at Purdue the next three. Would take 1-2 and hoping for 2-1.

Iowa just goes on this insanely long stretches of playing bad basketball (after playing really good basketball for other stretches). They are consistently manic and have been so under McCaffrey each of the past two years. It is really odd and I think it largely comes down to the fact that we haven't had a good PG with McCaffrey. At least we ended up winning. Minnesota is better than the last place team in the Big and a road win is a road win.

[bigruss]

Iowa just goes on this insanely long stretches of playing bad basketball (after playing really good basketball for other stretches). They are consistently manic and have been so under McCaffrey each of the past two years. It is really odd and I think it largely comes down to the fact that we haven't had a good PG with McCaffrey. At least we ended up winning. Minnesota is better than the last place team in the Big and a road win is a road win.

Minny is just getting shellshocked in conference play, they aren't bad but it just goes to show how hard it can be to win in the B1G.

 

Illinois realllly needs to win tonight, starting 1-4 would be really tough.

[Dick Allen]

Blowing a 17 point lead to an 0-4 Minnesota team, even on the road.

 

Inexcusable.

 

Mentally weak.

 

McCaffrey's one season away from being fired, as they're unlikely to improve much with White graduating.

 

 

 

I am posting this anyway while breathing a huge sigh of relief. Went down by four before eventually pulling the game out. Would have been a season killer IMO.

 

OSU (for first place) at home, at Wisconsin and at Purdue the next three. Would take 1-2 and hoping for 2-1.

Considering Fran just signed an extension, your one season from being fired isn't very accurate. But their play in the second half of games for a season and a half now, has to be a concern. If they actually played well in the second half most of the time, they probably would be ranked right now.

 

He seems to be finishing runner up for a lot of recruits. He did recruit his son who I think is a sophomore in HS. It seems laughable, but the kid is ranked high for sophomores, and might be his best recruit. Fran and his wife were both pretty good college players, so his gene pool might be good.

Edited January 14, 2015 by Dick Allen

[Chisoxfn]

Considering Fran just signed an extension, your one season from being fired isn't very accurate. But their play in the second half of games for a season and a half now, has to be a concern. If they actually played well in the second half most of the time, they probably would be ranked right now.

 

He seems to be finishing runner up for a lot of recruits. He did recruit his son who I think is a sophomore in HS. It seems laughable, but the kid is ranked high for sophomores, and might be his best recruit. Fran and his wife were both pretty good college players, so his gene pool might be good.

His son is actually supposed to be really good and Fran has gotten a lot out of his players and I think has generally done a very good developing talent. The next step really is being able to get some of the bigger recruiting wins and improved point guard play, because if he can get that, I think we will see the Hawkeyes become more perennially ranked and therefor should improve. New and improved facilities help as well. I complain about some of the issues we have had closing but in general, I still think the needle is headed in the right direction, which is nice given where we were 5 years ago.

[Kyyle23]

Can't wait for Wichita State to stomp on SIUs head tonite, that will be fun

[caulfield12]

Considering Fran just signed an extension, your one season from being fired isn't very accurate. But their play in the second half of games for a season and a half now, has to be a concern. If they actually played well in the second half most of the time, they probably would be ranked right now.

 

He seems to be finishing runner up for a lot of recruits. He did recruit his son who I think is a sophomore in HS. It seems laughable, but the kid is ranked high for sophomores, and might be his best recruit. Fran and his wife were both pretty good college players, so his gene pool might be good.

 

 

Div I, Most Losses After Leading at the Half - Since 2010-11

 

Hofstra - 28

UC Davis - 26

Iowa - 25

South Carolina St.- 25

E. Washington - 25

10:49 AM - 9 Jan 2015

 

They are starting to get some kids out of Chicago, but they're still essentially 2-3 star recruits and not the 4-5's they really need. They finished 2nd to KY for Tyler Ulis.

 

But there's a reason they are 1-14 against MSU in their last 15, and that has to do mostly with athleticism and toughness.

 

 

As far as PG play goes (and guard play in general), that's the biggest issue for the remainder of this season. Gesell, seemingly, hasn't improved much since getting lots of playing time as a freshman. Clemmons is inconsistent, and Trey Dickerson (JC recruit) who a lot had high hopes for has practically disappeared from the roster, with Uhl getting the 8th or 9th most minutes in B10 play so far.

 

Jok is essentially pushing Oglesby out game by game, which is a good thing.

 

With White, Woodbury and Olaseni all graduating, that's a ton of frontline production to replace, and Uthoff's closer to a smaller forward than a power forward. For his NBA hopes, he fits in more as a perimeter, 15-18 feet away from the basket guy who can do everything pretty well (pass, shoot, rebound, play D).

 

Woodbury continues to be an enigma, he finally played well again last night.

 

[caulfield12]

Considering Fran just signed an extension, your one season from being fired isn't very accurate. But their play in the second half of games for a season and a half now, has to be a concern. If they actually played well in the second half most of the time, they probably would be ranked right now.

 

He seems to be finishing runner up for a lot of recruits. He did recruit his son who I think is a sophomore in HS. It seems laughable, but the kid is ranked high for sophomores, and might be his best recruit. Fran and his wife were both pretty good college players, so his gene pool might be good.

 

 

Bryce Alford he's not, in a good way. Hilarious that Steve has been "showcasing" his son out at UCLA in hopes of getting him a pro contract.

 

Say what you will about McCaffrey, but he was always known more as a passer (the "White Magic") as a player, and a team-oriented, shoot second type of point guard is who you generally want running your team.

 

It is interesting, how often collegiate coaches have sons as their point guards. Lickliter as well, and his son was truly terrible from all accounts.

[Chisoxfn]

Bryce Alford he's not, in a good way. Hilarious that Steve has been "showcasing" his son out at UCLA in hopes of getting him a pro contract.

 

Say what you will about McCaffrey, but he was always known more as a passer (the "White Magic") as a player, and a team-oriented, shoot second type of point guard is who you generally want running your team.

 

It is interesting, how often collegiate coaches have sons as their point guards. Lickliter as well, and his son was truly terrible from all accounts.

McDermott was a coaches kid who was fantastic for his pops.

[bigruss]

So this offense is nice, just need to keep it up.

[caulfield12]

NW coming out a bit flat at home after almost taking down MSU on the road.

 

Rutgers gave MD fits in College Park before finally losing the lead the last five minutes.

 

 

Wonder how many games the eventual B10 champ will lose in conference? 3? 4? 5?

[bigruss]

Nunn is having one hell of a game!

[Jenksismyhero]

Tate too. Good D, good passes. Find a jumpshot and he's a legit big ten guard.

[gatnom]

Whenever Egwu fouls, it's like the other team is on a power play.

 

 

[bigruss]

If we lose this....

[Jenksismyhero]

Groce is a f***ing moron. Sticking with Starks over Tate most of the game and then letting Starks keep the ball and shoot in the 2 biggest possessions of the game instead of giving it to Hill or Nunn.

[Jenksismyhero]

Well, road win.

[farmteam]

Wonder how many games the eventual B10 champ will lose in conference? 3? 4? 5?

I've been thinking about this. My guess is 4.

[bigruss]

Groce is a f***ing moron. Sticking with Starks over Tate most of the game and then letting Starks keep the ball and shoot in the 2 biggest possessions of the game instead of giving it to Hill or Nunn.

Agreed on Starks, but besides that I thought it was a well coached game.

[LittleHurt05]

Groce is a f***ing moron. Sticking with Starks over Tate most of the game and then letting Starks keep the ball and shoot in the 2 biggest possessions of the game instead of giving it to Hill or Nunn.

 

It seems that Groce has now reached Jay Cutler status in your world.