NCAA basketball 2014-15 thread

[southsider2k5]

Well, no city is going to match DC for culture and history, but there is more of that in Indy than people realize.

 

If you are from or have any connection to Indiana, the Indiana State Museum is really cool.

 

If you have kids with you, there is a top-notch Children's museum up near Butler. The zoo is also really good.

 

NCAA Hall of Champions

 

A Native American art museum

 

Mass Ave has a lot of trendy restaurants/clubs

 

I have been to Indy dozens of times over the years over the course of my life. Honestly, that list says it all.

[cabiness42]

I have been to Indy dozens of times over the years over the course of my life. Honestly, that list says it all.

 

I don't know how much culture/history you think people should be expecting.

 

Nearly all of the visitors to Indy for major sporting events are coming from places other than New York, Chicago, LA, and DC. The amount of culture, history, and entertainment that Indianapolis has to offer is more than where they are coming from and more than enough to satisfy them. The only people I ever hear complaining about the lack of things to do in Indy are from Chicago.

 

Indy is not Chicago nor does it want to be Chicago. Indy wants to be a place where you can make the trip to the BIG Championships every year because nice hotel rooms cost $99/night, rather than having to save up for a few years to be able to afford the $249/night rooms in Chicago.

[IlliniKrush]

Of course B1G doesn't "owe" those schools anything. That's not my point. My point is that they don't take the tourney to this new market if those 2 new schools aren't added, which I don't think is debatable.

 

And no, I don't think the Pac 12 (or any other conference) is going to go the opposite coast to play in a market where it doesn't have a school. But Washington DC is a B1G market, so that's not a fair question.

 

I'll grant you that DC is a much farther drive, but there are a few more things to see and do there than in Indy, once you get there.

I don't really care that they added 2 schools out east - you still should put the tournament in a centralized location, so it's easier for more schools to get to. This hurts a ton of fan bases, especially those that decide to make the drive in day 2 or 3 as their team advances. DC makes that almost impossible. Of course they don't put this there if there aren't 2 new schools...but why are they?

 

It's a fair question, because putting a PAC12 tournament on the east coast is similar what the DC tournament will be for the majority of the teams.

 

No one, at the moment, considers Washington DC a B10 market. It's a terrible idea to put the tournament at the very outskirts of your "territory."

 

The "there are things to do in DC" doesn't really do much when you have Chicago to work with. I don't think for Joe Wisconsin fan sitting up there, he's going to be more apt to make the trip there than to Chicago or Indy because there are things to see. It's more of an inconvenience.

[LittleHurt05]

I don't really care that they added 2 schools out east - you still should put the tournament in a centralized location, so it's easier for more schools to get to. This hurts a ton of fan bases, especially those that decide to make the drive in day 2 or 3 as their team advances. DC makes that almost impossible. Of course they don't put this there if there aren't 2 new schools...but why are they?

 

It's a fair question, because putting a PAC12 tournament on the east coast is similar what the DC tournament will be for the majority of the teams.

 

No one, at the moment, considers Washington DC a B10 market. It's a terrible idea to put the tournament at the very outskirts of your "territory."

 

The "there are things to do in DC" doesn't really do much when you have Chicago to work with. I don't think for Joe Wisconsin fan sitting up there, he's going to be more apt to make the trip there than to Chicago or Indy because there are things to see. It's more of an inconvenience.

 

You are right, but I think this shows that the fans aren't what matters. Advertising revenue, sponsorships, BTN deals, money is what matters. I doubt the Big Ten's bottom line for the tourney is hurt much if there are 19k or 15k at the game. If they can increase their future revenue by playing in DC, that's what they are looking at.

 

If DC is too far for Joe Wisconsin to drive to the tourney, is that gonna effect how many future B1G games he watches? Will it stop him from attending the following year in Chicago or Indy? Nope

[IlliniKrush]

You are right, but I think this shows that the fans aren't what matters. Advertising revenue, sponsorships, BTN deals, money is what matters. I doubt the Big Ten's bottom line for the tourney is hurt much if there are 19k or 15k at the game. If they can increase their future revenue by playing in DC, that's what they are looking at.

 

If DC is too far for Joe Wisconsin to drive to the tourney, is that gonna effect how many future B1G games he watches? Will it stop him from attending the following year in Chicago or Indy? Nope

It just looks like Delaney is going to do anything possible to make sure BTN is on the east coast. I'm not sure you're ever getting a big piece of that market unless you add even more teams.

 

We'd have to see it spelled out, but are they really getting that much more money from it being in DC, especially if # of fans per game goes down, possibly significantly? Is some average sports fan in the DC area now all about BT basketball because the tournament is there? How exactly are they drawing more money?

 

I think this move is far from a sure thing as far as more $ for the BT. In the meantime, you just upset a lot of schools and fans.

[farmteam]

I really don't see what the big deal is. I was surprised it wasn't the Barclays Center.

 

And the comparison to the Pac-12 putting their tournament on the East Coast is ludicrous. The most eastern team in the Pac-12 is Colorado.

 

Distance from Boulder, CO to Washington DC: 1,625 miles.

Distance from College Park, MD to Washington DC: 9.2 miles

[IlliniKrush]

I really don't see what the big deal is. I was surprised it wasn't the Barclays Center.

 

And the comparison to the Pac-12 putting their tournament on the East Coast is ludicrous. The most eastern team in the Pac-12 is Colorado.

 

Distance from Boulder, CO to Washington DC: 1,625 miles.

Distance from College Park, MD to Washington DC: 9.2 miles

The point is, the PAC 12 wouldn't move it so far away from their fan bases. What's next, BT moves it to Omaha because Nebraska is close to it? It's irrelevant how close Maryland is to DC, as it's not a tournament for only Maryland fans. You weren't going to see the old big east put their tournament in Chicago just because Depaul was around the corner.

 

School Indy Chicago D.C.

Illinois 121 136 700

Indiana 50 233 629

Iowa 362 221 911

Maryland 574 698 9

Michigan 262 242 529

Mich St. 254 223 593

Minnesota 592 408 1117

Nebraska 637 518 1208

NW 197 12 717

Ohio State 176 326 405

Penn State 497 568 206

Purdue 65 124 642

Rutgers 686 782 196

Wisconsin 330 146 855

 

 

[farmteam]

The point is, the PAC 12 wouldn't move it so far away from their fan bases. What's next, BT moves it to Omaha because Nebraska is close to it? It's irrelevant how close Maryland is to DC, as it's not a tournament for only Maryland fans. You weren't going to see the old big east put their tournament in Chicago just because Depaul was around the corner.

 

School Indy Chicago D.C.

Illinois 121 136 700

Indiana 50 233 629

Iowa 362 221 911

Maryland 574 698 9

Michigan 262 242 529

Mich St. 254 223 593

Minnesota 592 408 1117

Nebraska 637 518 1208

NW 197 12 717

Ohio State 176 326 405

Penn State 497 568 206

Purdue 65 124 642

Rutgers 686 782 196

Wisconsin 330 146 855

 

If the Big East had wanted to grow the Chicago market, then yeah you might've seen that.

 

The East Coast Big Ten alum market is huge. They're trying to tap into that much moreso than the Maryland/Rutgers fanbases IMO, though the latter is part of it (as a general way of expanding the Big Ten brand).

 

The tournament has been in Chicago/Indy for the last 15 years. The conference is expanding, and this is part of tapping into that new market.

 

EDIT: It's also funny that you brought up Omaha since the baseball tournament is there this year for this first time ever.

Edited May 6, 2014 by farmteam

[clyons]

It just looks like Delaney is going to do anything possible to make sure BTN is on the east coast. I'm not sure you're ever getting a big piece of that market unless you add even more teams.

 

We'd have to see it spelled out, but are they really getting that much more money from it being in DC, especially if # of fans per game goes down, possibly significantly? Is some average sports fan in the DC area now all about BT basketball because the tournament is there? How exactly are they drawing more money?

 

I think this move is far from a sure thing as far as more $ for the BT. In the meantime, you just upset a lot of schools and fans.

 

They get more money by "building the brand" and drumming up excitement in these newer territories. The "more money part" doesn't have so much to do with tourney ticket revenue so much as it does B1G network TV subscriptions. Even if you're correct about attendance dwindling, this still makes financial sense. This is a long term play, and Jim Delaney is a very smart man.

 

Besides, these arenas seat 20K; with 16 teams, that allots to 1.25K tickets per school. That's a pretty small percentage of fans and alums per school; so I disagree that "a lot" are going to be "upset." If so, they can wait their turn in the rotation (if it even goes to a rotation) for it to come back around.

 

[RockRaines]

They get more money by "building the brand" and drumming up excitement in these newer territories. The "more money part" doesn't have so much to do with tourney ticket revenue so much as it does B1G network TV subscriptions. Even if you're correct about attendance dwindling, this still makes financial sense. This is a long term play, and Jim Delaney is a very smart man.

 

Besides, these arenas seat 20K; with 16 teams, that allots to 1.25K tickets per school. That's a pretty small percentage of fans and alums per school; so I disagree that "a lot" are going to be "upset." If so, they can wait their turn in the rotation (if it even goes to a rotation) for it to come back around.

Media exposure+recruiting exposure is the goal.

[IlliniKrush]

They get more money by "building the brand" and drumming up excitement in these newer territories. The "more money part" doesn't have so much to do with tourney ticket revenue so much as it does B1G network TV subscriptions. Even if you're correct about attendance dwindling, this still makes financial sense. This is a long term play, and Jim Delaney is a very smart man.

 

Besides, these arenas seat 20K; with 16 teams, that allots to 1.25K tickets per school. That's a pretty small percentage of fans and alums per school; so I disagree that "a lot" are going to be "upset." If so, they can wait their turn in the rotation (if it even goes to a rotation) for it to come back around.

It's a long term, risky play. There's zero guarantee this turns into more revenue. When the rubber meets the road, this plan may or may not work, outside of the nice concepts of building the brand/expanding the footprint. Not sure how much excitement you will draw up in the DC area for the BT at this point.

 

It would also be pretty embarrassing from a media angle if you have the 3rd and 4th days with lackluster crowds due to venue. Not going to build the brand there.

 

And outside of PSU/Rutgers/Maryland? Yeah, fans are upset because it made it a lot harder/impossible to get to this tournament. 1.25K aren't showing up to every game, it's getting the other fanbases to have 5/6/7 as the weekend goes on. Not really possible in this scenario.

[cabiness42]

Not sure how much excitement you will draw up in the DC area for the BT at this point.

 

Perhaps you could ask BIG alums who live or have lived in the DC area. They would tell you that this is drumming up quite a bit of excitement.

[Dick Allen]

It's a long term, risky play. There's zero guarantee this turns into more revenue. When the rubber meets the road, this plan may or may not work, outside of the nice concepts of building the brand/expanding the footprint. Not sure how much excitement you will draw up in the DC area for the BT at this point.

 

It would also be pretty embarrassing from a media angle if you have the 3rd and 4th days with lackluster crowds due to venue. Not going to build the brand there.

 

And outside of PSU/Rutgers/Maryland? Yeah, fans are upset because it made it a lot harder/impossible to get to this tournament. 1.25K aren't showing up to every game, it's getting the other fanbases to have 5/6/7 as the weekend goes on. Not really possible in this scenario.

If it was permanent, I might agree. Right now, it is just for one year. They will have no problem atrracting just as many fans. I'm sure a lot will be very interested in traveling to DC rather than Indianapolis. I'm sure there will be focus on empty seats during the preliminary rounds, but those seats are empty as it is. If it's half full on Saturday and Sunday, the experiment probably failed, but I don't think that is going to happen.

 

I don't know how it's impossible to get to DC with an almost 3 year notice.

 

Driving distance between Columbus OH and Washington DC-402 miles. Driving distance between Columbus OH and Chicago, IL 356 miles. Their fanbase shows up in Chicago. I think they will be able to handle the extra 46 miles.

Edited May 7, 2014 by Dick Allen

[IlliniKrush]

Yes, the tournament is only relevant to OSU fans and the distance they need to travel.

[Jenksismyhero]

I just see an issue with this when you have upsets in the tournament, as you do every year. Middle tier teams that may win one game or may win it all. Are you going to get the walk-up crowds that you would normally get in Chicago or Indy?

[SleepyWhiteSox]

Yes, the tournament is only relevant to OSU fans and the distance they need to travel.

 

Agreed. Let's all stop thinking big picture so much and focus on the small picture stuff.

[farmteam]

I just see an issue with this when you have upsets in the tournament, as you do every year. Middle tier teams that may win one game or may win it all. Are you going to get the walk-up crowds that you would normally get in Chicago or Indy?

This is the only possible issue I see, but I really think it'll be better than you might expect.

 

And even if it does affect it, that single reason doesn't make the whole proposition a terrible idea.

[LittleHurt05]

I just see an issue with this when you have upsets in the tournament, as you do every year. Middle tier teams that may win one game or may win it all. Are you going to get the walk-up crowds that you would normally get in Chicago or Indy?

 

Are there tickets even available the day of? Don't they sell out ahead of time? There really aren't walk-up crowds then.

[farmteam]

Are there tickets even available the day of? Don't they sell out ahead of time? There really aren't walk-up crowds then.

I think he means the secondhand market, where fans of the teams that lost sell to fans whose teams are still in it.

[LittleHurt05]

I think he means the secondhand market, where fans of the teams that lost sell to fans whose teams are still in it.

 

I'd imagine that Jim Delaney gives exactly zero s***s about the walk-up secondhand ticket market over the weekend.

[Jenksismyhero]

He might when half an arena is empty for the championship game. How's that going to look on live TV 20 minutes before Selection Sunday starts?

Edited May 8, 2014 by Jenksismybitch

[LittleHurt05]

He might when half an arena is empty for the championship game. How's that going to look on live TV 20 minutes before Selection Sunday starts?

 

No, not really. Ticket sales have zero to do with this decision, even if the game doesn't sell out it could still be a major success to them.

 

It's also a 20,000 seat basketball arena, not a 70,000 seat football stadium. I think you are slightly over exaggerating how empty the place will be. They didn't move the tourney to Pullman, Washington.

[illinilaw08]

No, not really. Ticket sales have zero to do with this decision, even if the game doesn't sell out it could still be a major success to them.

 

It's also a 20,000 seat basketball arena, not a 70,000 seat football stadium. I think you are slightly over exaggerating how empty the place will be. They didn't move the tourney to Pullman, Washington.

 

Late to this discussion... but yeah, the tournament has definitely been empty on Sunday in the past. The most recent example I can think of was the Penn State-Ohio State final in 2011 in Indianapolis. I was at that game... and I was probably one of 3,000 people there.

 

When I lived in Indy, I loved having the B1G tournament there. They consistently drew well on Friday and Saturday and, if one of IU or Purdue were playing Thursday, they drew well Thursday too. Sundays were more problematic because people were getting out of town before the late championship game. Having the last championship game on Selection Sunday shows that the B1G cares way more about TV ratings than attendance at the championship game in any event.

 

I honestly don't see the concern with D.C. getting the tournament every couple years. D.C. is a transplant town, so the base of local B1G alums is pretty strong. Maryland is extremely close. With two airports, sufficient public transportation to get around, and world class museums, restaurants, etc., I can see people making D.C. a destination trip for the tournament. Students will have more trouble getting there (much more expensive road trip from Madison or Iowa City to D.C. as compared to Indy or Chicago), but once every 4 or 5 years, I don't really see the problem.

[Jenksismyhero]

No, not really. Ticket sales have zero to do with this decision, even if the game doesn't sell out it could still be a major success to them.

 

It's also a 20,000 seat basketball arena, not a 70,000 seat football stadium. I think you are slightly over exaggerating how empty the place will be. They didn't move the tourney to Pullman, Washington.

 

It's not ticket sales i'm worried about, it's people filling the seats. Almost every year we have teams that aren't expected to make the finals make the finals, and when that happens a huge walk-up crowd grabs tickets from fans of teams that were expected to stay the weekend but don't. That's going to be much harder for people now.

[LittleHurt05]

It's not ticket sales i'm worried about, it's people filling the seats. Almost every year we have teams that aren't expected to make the finals make the finals, and when that happens a huge walk-up crowd grabs tickets from fans of teams that were expected to stay the weekend but don't. That's going to be much harder for people now.

 

Will it be harder for the fans to fill the seats? Sure. Does the Big Ten care? Nope.

 

Like the earlier post said, it's not like Sunday is sold out every year anyway.