Avisail Garcia is out for the rest of 2014

[oldsox]

Until he got hurt, I thought the bad routes might have been caused by his playing CF quite a bit. I wasn't that concerned. But the injury does show that the feet first slide is a lot safer. The injury reminded me of Quentin's injury in RF when he played for Sox. Identical format.

[flavum]

Good Hahn interview talking about Avi and other stuff.

 

http://chicago.cbslocal.com/audio/986-670-...-interviews#986

[caulfield12]

It will be interesting to see if the White Sox let him play in Winter Ball in Venezuela, or if they completely shut him down until Spring Training 2015.

 

Offensively, having the offseason to get back into a rhythm offensively would definitely help, but then you wonder about him hurting himself again before he's 100%.

 

With this type of surgery, the chances for him re-injuring it again (swinging the bat) aren't MARKEDLY HIGHER if he starts playing again (winter ball), as opposed to waiting for spring, are they?

[ptatc]

It will be interesting to see if the White Sox let him play in Winter Ball in Venezuela, or if they completely shut him down until Spring Training 2015.

 

Offensively, having the offseason to get back into a rhythm offensively would definitely help, but then you wonder about him hurting himself again before he's 100%.

 

With this type of surgery, the chances for him re-injuring it again (swinging the bat) aren't MARKEDLY HIGHER if he starts playing again (winter ball), as opposed to waiting for spring, are they?

There is no increased chance of reinjury. Once the labrum and capsule are tacked down it will heal. The problem could be if the capsule is either too tight or too losee it could interfere with the stability of the glenohumeral joint. Since it's his non-throwing shoulder it will take less stress and most likely won't interfere. I wouldn't be surprised if he could DH in winterball in an attempt to reclaim some missed at bats.

[Bigsoxhurt35]

On the bright side - Garcia will be greatly pained by having to be sidelined. When he comes back you best damn well know that he will be working on his routes and will no longer belly flop into the grass with his shoulder.

Yes hopefully he learns from this and works hard to get back.

[Jake]

He definitely had a pattern of diving the wrong way, I've seen it in a lot of athletic big guys like him. They all end up hurting their shoulders too, in my experience. With that said, it's hard to teach. You don't want to make him dive 100 times in practice because each time you do that you have a substantial risk of injury. Easy to critique in hindsight. I'm sure he had been told to be careful on the dives.

[Lillian]

And to think that he was expected to be the center fielder, until Eaton was acquired. He has looked pretty lost and not very graceful in the outfield.

He may have speed, but he doesn't seem to utilize it very well.

[chw42]

Whenever our position players have major injuries, it's always worse than it actually looks.

 

Avi was making good progress at the plate. It really sucks he had to go down, especially for a whole year.

[caulfield12]

Whenever our position players have major injuries, it's always worse than it actually looks.

 

Avi was making good progress at the plate. It really sucks he had to go down, especially for a whole year.

 

 

Recently, lots of bad luck with Mitchell's career totally derailed...Avisail now, Floyd and Crain last year, John Danks, Crede/Quentin in 2008.

 

That said, we were REALLY fortunate/exceptional for the majority of the past 10-15 years with injuries...at least since the huge string of pitching injuries from 2000-2002.

 

 

[caulfield12]

And to think that he was expected to be the center fielder, until Eaton was acquired. He has looked pretty lost and not very graceful in the outfield.

He may have speed, but he doesn't seem to utilize it very well.

 

 

He has flat out foot speed when sprinting after he's accelerated, but the initial first step quickness/burst/reads in the outfield have been pretty darned miserable.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

And to think that he was expected to be the center fielder, until Eaton was acquired. He has looked pretty lost and not very graceful in the outfield.

He may have speed, but he doesn't seem to utilize it very well.

I think the Sox learned pretty quickly he was no CF'er. That's why they went after Eaton in the off season. There were some on here saying the same thing ( ahem) and I rarely voice strong negative opinions of Sox players . I've been watching how a good CF'er looks since Ken Berry patrolled the outfield and I think I have learned how they play the game .Garcia wasn't even close .

 

But on the other hand I have been a big supporter of Garcia as a hitter when others voiced their opinion on his lack of discipline. I know his flaws at the plate as well as anyone,but physically he's a speciman and his baseball hitting talents are unrefined yet montrous. I will miss watching him develop a lot offensively and yes defensively too .

[Jack Parkman]

This sucks. Even though I'm not a fan, his performance last year and in the 15-3 game gave me hope. As was said earlier in the thread, we won't know what is wrong if he struggles next season.

Edited April 11, 2014 by Elgin Slim

[greg775]

would you calm the f down? all you do is post doom and gloom (the undertone in all your posts are like this) surprised you haven't blamed Robin or Dunn for this.

 

What is your problem? Our star RF is out for the season and one poster had an interesting post how Piersall said it pisses him off when outfielders dive for the ball. I said if this is true, it's disappointing the Sox didn't tell Garcia to quit with the freakish diving for balls. Good luck to Garcia, but this is a huge setback to his development.

[TaylorStSox]

What is your problem? Our star RF is out for the season and one poster had an interesting post how Piersall said it pisses him off when outfielders dive for the ball. I said if this is true, it's disappointing the Sox didn't tell Garcia to quit with the freakish diving for balls. Good luck to Garcia, but this is a huge setback to his development.

He's not a star.

[NorthSideSox72]

In many martial arts, a big part of what you do as you reach levels where you are actually sparring is learning how to fall peroperly, to decrease the chance of injury. Maybe I am indeed overanalyzing, but, doesn't that mean it could be taught in any sport as well? It doesn't happen often of course, this isn't football, so maybe it just isn't worth the investment of time. But I do think it is possible to do.

 

There is no increased chance of reinjury. Once the labrum and capsule are tacked down it will heal. The problem could be if the capsule is either too tight or too losee it could interfere with the stability of the glenohumeral joint. Since it's his non-throwing shoulder it will take less stress and most likely won't interfere. I wouldn't be surprised if he could DH in winterball in an attempt to reclaim some missed at bats.

 

I had a torn labrum (throwing shoulder) repaired, but I also had "capsular damage" as they put it, and I got the impression they had to actually pull out all or part of a capsule. And I think they said that cannot be replaced. Maybe that's changed, or maybe I misunderstood.

 

[lasttriptotulsa]

And to think that he was expected to be the center fielder, until Eaton was acquired. He has looked pretty lost and not very graceful in the outfield.

He may have speed, but he doesn't seem to utilize it very well.

 

Yea he's definitely no Grady Sizemore, that's for sure.

[ptatc]

In many martial arts, a big part of what you do as you reach levels where you are actually sparring is learning how to fall peroperly, to decrease the chance of injury. Maybe I am indeed overanalyzing, but, doesn't that mean it could be taught in any sport as well? It doesn't happen often of course, this isn't football, so maybe it just isn't worth the investment of time. But I do think it is possible to do.

 

 

 

I had a torn labrum (throwing shoulder) repaired, but I also had "capsular damage" as they put it, and I got the impression they had to actually pull out all or part of a capsule. And I think they said that cannot be replaced. Maybe that's changed, or maybe I misunderstood.

No, you probably didn't misunderstand. Basically, the capsule attaches to the labrum and the labrum attaches to the bone. The labrum is circular and surrounds the area where the humerus meets the glenoid fossa to make the glenohumeral joint. The long head of the bicep tendon attaches to the labrum as well. It very common that when the labrum is torn the capsule is as well. You cannot replace the capsule but what they can do it repair it by either folding it over and stitching it (this is what they did for Danks but is was very loose) or they can use a laser type device to heat it and actually shrink it.

In your case the capsule probably stretched enough that they needed to resect some of it and stitch it together.

The capsular injuries generally happen in an overuse type scenario where it gradually loosens over time. In this case it is traumatic so if there is damage to the capsule it stretched to the point of failure first. So once the physician goes in to see the damage, they will need to determine which type of repair is necessary, if at all. The way his arm "jammed" into the ground it could have just popped the labrum and minimal capsular damage was incurred. They won't really know until they go in.

[witesoxfan]

No, you probably didn't misunderstand. Basically, the capsule attaches to the labrum and the labrum attaches to the bone. The labrum is circular and surrounds the area where the humerus meets the glenoid fossa to make the glenohumeral joint. The long head of the bicep tendon attaches to the labrum as well. It very common that when the labrum is torn the capsule is as well. You cannot replace the capsule but what they can do it repair it by either folding it over and stitching it (this is what they did for Danks but is was very loose) or they can use a laser type device to heat it and actually shrink it.

In your case the capsule probably stretched enough that they needed to resect some of it and stitch it together.

The capsular injuries generally happen in an overuse type scenario where it gradually loosens over time. In this case it is traumatic so if there is damage to the capsule it stretched to the point of failure first. So once the physician goes in to see the damage, they will need to determine which type of repair is necessary, if at all. The way his arm "jammed" into the ground it could have just popped the labrum and minimal capsular damage was incurred. They won't really know until they go in.

 

If I ever meet you, I am buying you a beer.

[ptatc]

If I ever meet you, I am buying you a beer.

I would gladly accept.

[NorthSideSox72]

If I ever meet you, I am buying you a beer.

Seconded.

 

[iguchi=dank]

Well I hate the news, but i've always had a soft spot for viciedo even though he pisses me off more times than most, so honestly its news I can handle. If it was just danks behind Avi I think I would be much more bummed. Viciedo being given one last shot at solid playing time isn't the worst thing that can happen to our team and the dropoff shouldn't be much, hell Avi was playing alot like tank has most of this year.

 

On another note about labrums. I had my Right Labrum worked on Dec 8th of 2013 and after a little more than 4 months I'm not even close to ready to play major sports. I can run and lift things fine from the waist down but its been a nightmare of a recovery. Mine was from overuse over time (tennis) and not a labrum tear from one physical act like Garcia's. Our Doctor in house is correct in that this type of labrum tear is slightly easier to recover from. Mine was a labrum tear and the labrum/capsule had been stretched out over time so they had to tighten the capsule quite a bit and thats the tricky part. As Ptatc said the hard part is getting it tight but not to tight to restrict movement. At over 4 months for me I have a good amount of motion back but I can tell its still pretty damn tight and thats going to be a b**** to get that last 15% movement/strength back. The docs do have to side on making it tighter as you can still work that out over time rather than too loose and the problems would likely return. I gotta say this isn't an injury anyone would want to have depending on the severity and the road back is difficult.

 

Also about whether it would be worse left or right.. over the course of the year I'm sure even if it was his right shoulder he could get back to throwing the ball well enough, my real worry with it being the left shoulder is the power sap it could have as its MUCH harder to push/pull outward from your body instead of pulling inward to your chest. imagine hitting a one handed backhand in tennis, that motion of pushing outward is going to take a long time to get back to his original power. I hate to see anyone go through this injury and Avi, get ready for rehab and the wonderful world of "scrapping" he's going to come to hate that little ceramic purple hand held tool they use to break up the scar tissue

[ptatc]

Well I hate the news, but i've always had a soft spot for viciedo even though he pisses me off more times than most, so honestly its news I can handle. If it was just danks behind Avi I think I would be much more bummed. Viciedo being given one last shot at solid playing time isn't the worst thing that can happen to our team and the dropoff shouldn't be much, hell Avi was playing alot like tank has most of this year.

 

On another note about labrums. I had my Right Labrum worked on Dec 8th of 2013 and after a little more than 4 months I'm not even close to ready to play major sports. I can run and lift things fine from the waist down but its been a nightmare of a recovery. Mine was from overuse over time (tennis) and not a labrum tear from one physical act like Garcia's. Our Doctor in house is correct in that this type of labrum tear is slightly easier to recover from. Mine was a labrum tear and the labrum/capsule had been stretched out over time so they had to tighten the capsule quite a bit and thats the tricky part. As Ptatc said the hard part is getting it tight but not to tight to restrict movement. At over 4 months for me I have a good amount of motion back but I can tell its still pretty damn tight and thats going to be a b**** to get that last 15% movement/strength back. The docs do have to side on making it tighter as you can still work that out over time rather than too loose and the problems would likely return. I gotta say this isn't an injury anyone would want to have depending on the severity and the road back is difficult.

 

Also about whether it would be worse left or right.. over the course of the year I'm sure even if it was his right shoulder he could get back to throwing the ball well enough, my real worry with it being the left shoulder is the power sap it could have as its MUCH harder to push/pull outward from your body instead of pulling inward to your chest. imagine hitting a one handed backhand in tennis, that motion of pushing outward is going to take a long time to get back to his original power. I hate to see anyone go through this injury and Avi, get ready for rehab and the wonderful world of "scrapping" he's going to come to hate that little ceramic purple hand held tool they use to break up the scar tissue

Do you know if you had any bicep tendon involvement? This is usually the determining factor in overhead, overuse athletic problems.

 

That little purple tool is a fairly recent form of aggressive scar massage. The PT you used it is up on the latest rehab. And you're right it hurts like nothing else. Hopefully, there isn't enogh scarring that he doesn't need it much.

 

Just to clarify. I'm not a doctor. I'm a physical therapist and athletic trainer with a few of decades of experience in sports medicine.

Edited April 11, 2014 by ptatc

[sammy esposito]

He's not a star.

Not a star, he could still be one but he is still young. I think his replacement, Danks, is a major league ready fielder, who had a great spring will be an able replacement capable of putting up a .250 avg or better while showing some above average power this spring. Get well Avi but Jordan will do ok.

 

[NorthSideSox72]

Not a star, he could still be one but he is still young. I think his replacement, Danks, is a major league ready fielder, who had a great spring will be an able replacement capable of putting up a .250 avg or better while showing some above average power this spring. Get well Avi but Jordan will do ok.

Just keep in mind, Danks isn't really replacing Avi. Viciedo is replacing Avi, and Danks is replacing Viciedo as the 4th OF.

 

[BigHurt3515]

Just keep in mind, Danks isn't really replacing Avi. Viciedo is replacing Avi, and Danks is replacing Viciedo as the 4th OF.

 

Our outfield defense is now better late in games with De Aza-Eaton-Danks.. Which is a good thing. I hope Danks gets some starts against right handers.