Semien

[greg775]

Keppinger was coming off a season where he hit .325 with a 126 OPS+ and got a marginal deal that the Sox surely regret. What can Beckham do in 2 months to have any trade value whatsoever? Seriously. GM's aren't that dumb.

Don't mess with Semien. Give him the job and play him everyday. He's ready.

I agree. GMs know who Gordon Beckham is. Now if he comes out and is the "parents are in the stands" version of Beckham and hits .400, I guess that would help the Sox even more than Semien being in there.

 

Beckham probably won't be ready to go for a least another week or 2. Let's see where Semien is at then. Opinions can change, after all, Flowers and Dunn are no longer on the dead weight list. I'm sure 2 weeks from now either some who think Semien should remain the starting 2nd baseman or some who think he wouldn't be hurt by some time in Charlotte will change their minds.

That's a solid take. If Semien goes 1 for the next 25 even I would probably agree it's time for the minors. But if he hits .333 and has a good on base, I'll be very pissed if Beckham gets the job over him.

 

I just can't believe that rational fans are even suggesting that it's giving up on Beckham "too early." The book has been written. He's a bust. 27 year olds with 2500 MLB AB's don't just suddenly figure it out. Trade him for some A level pitcher that throws 95 and can't hit the broadside of a barn. Play Semien everyday and let's move on with the rebuild. This isn't a reactionary move.

 

It's Beckham's draft position. People are so slow to give up on top draft picks even when their performance is as blah as Beckhams. That said, if the Sox do give him the job, I will root for the "good Beckham" to emerge again. I want to win even more than I do see Semien succeed.

Edited April 15, 2014 by greg775

[TaylorStSox]

Jose Bautista should have just hung it up.

Oh my, a roided up outlier. That proves it.

[NorthSideSox72]

I just can't believe that rational fans are even suggesting that it's giving up on Beckham "too early." The book has been written. He's a bust. 27 year olds with 2500 MLB AB's don't just suddenly figure it out. Trade him for some A level pitcher that throws 95 and can't hit the broadside of a barn. Play Semien everyday and let's move on with the rebuild. This isn't a reactionary move.

 

It is a reactionary move. Also, who said anything about giving up on him too early? That has nothing to do with the discussion. It isn't a development thing with Beckham, or very little of that.

 

Absolutely. I'm actually on the fence with what I want to happen.

 

I do think there is potential danger in sending a guy with advanced plate discipline to the minors, however, especially if coaching is in fact trying to get him to expand his zone (no idea if they are, just that it could be justifiable giving that he takes so many strikes.), simply because he could develop bad habits in being able to succeed hitting crappier stuff.

 

No idea if it would hurt him or not, but I think it's plausible that it could. I don't think we, as fans, can have enough information to know what's best. It'll come down to how clearly the coaching staff thinks they can communicate with him. Maybe it's as simple as "do nothing different, just rake and wait for your shot."

 

Anything is possible, but I find it hard to believe a guy with only 71 MLB PA's coming into this year, just 32 games at AAA and less than a season at AA is going to be hurt by a couple months of AAA time. This is a development year for him either way, and he's going to spend some MLB time either way.

 

 

[Dick Allen]

It is a reactionary move. Also, who said anything about giving up on him too early? That has nothing to do with the discussion. It isn't a development thing with Beckham, or very little of that.

 

 

 

Anything is possible, but I find it hard to believe a guy with only 71 MLB PA's coming into this year, just 32 games at AAA and less than a season at AA is going to be hurt by a couple months of AAA time. This is a development year for him either way, and he's going to spend some MLB time either way.

This is going to be a really good stretch for him playing some top teams in Boston,Texas, Detroit and Tampa. If he makes it through with flying colors, make some room for him. If not, Charlotte for a couple of months isn't the worst thing in the world. At the very least he can work on his defense. It's been spotty at best.

[TaylorStSox]

It is a reactionary move. Also, who said anything about giving up on him too early? That has nothing to do with the discussion. It isn't a development thing with Beckham, or very little of that.

 

 

 

Anything is possible, but I find it hard to believe a guy with only 71 MLB PA's coming into this year, just 32 games at AAA and less than a season at AA is going to be hurt by a couple months of AAA time. This is a development year for him either way, and he's going to spend some MLB time either way.

Giving up on him "too early" was a direct quote from one of your posts on this very page.

[TaylorStSox]

While we're on the subject, Keppinger is a much bigger problem. They can't carry him and Konerko.

[NorthSideSox72]

Giving up on him "too early" was a direct quote from one of your posts on this very page.

Oh come on, read the post. That wasn't about development, that was about THIS YEAR and giving up VALUE he represents, that is quite clear in what I said. I"m not saying he's still going to develop into a star player, in fact that is highly unlikely. He may have some development left in there, but not much, and not likely. That isn't what this is about.

 

 

[NorthSideSox72]

While we're on the subject, Keppinger is a much bigger problem. They can't carry him and Konerko.

Well no one disagrees with you there. But Keppinger is on the DL, probably for quite a while, so there isn't much to be done right now.

 

[Jerksticks]

How likely is it that Kepp is on a fake DL? How prevalent is that in MLB

[NorthSideSox72]

How likely is it that Kepp is on a fake DL? How prevalent is that in MLB

Dude couldn't throw he was in so much pain. Seems highly unlikely he'd make that up, but I guess crazier things have happened.

 

I think he's got a more serious issue going on there that hasn't been diagnosed.

 

[harfman77]

It's Beckham's draft position. People are so slow to give up on top draft picks even when their performance is as blah as Beckhams. That said, if the Sox do give him the job, I will root for the "good Beckham" to emerge again. I want to win even more than I do see Semien succeed.

 

The second part of your statement contradicts the first part. It isn't his draft position, its that we have seen him perform at a high level in the major leagues. Then the wheels fell off. If he had never been any good, it would be one thing, but he showed he could be a player at this level. Then his sophomore slump set in and all the mechanical changes put into his swing seemed to take him further and further away from the player he was. Last year he seemed to be getting it figured out, though it was apparent that the wrist injury had zapped his power. Its not the draft position as much as it is his history, and seeing what Severson has done with Flowers, I think it is prudent to wait and see what he can do with Gordon when healthy.

 

Semien could use more time in AAA seeing a lot of the same pitches he will see in MLB. There really is no reason to rush him, let him figure out how to make appropriate adjustments in AAA where there is a whole lot less pressure than in the majors.

[Vance Law]

You can cherry pick if you want, but career-wise, Keppinger has been only slightly better hitter than Beckham, hasn't usually been a full time player and in fact was given beneficial platoon assignments, is a worse defender, and is SIX years older. Beckham also has a year of Arb left and has no cost obligations past this year, by the way.

 

Fortunately, the Sox GM has a long term view on things and isn't going to overreact to 2 weeks of play. He's got a plan and he's sticking to it, which is great.

 

Semien is ready - no argument there. That isn't what this is about, since everyone is agreeing either he's ready, or certainly at least very close. The question is about what is best for the long term plan for this club. Whether Semien spends a couple months in AAA in the early going or not, is not going to do anything negative for him, or the club. Giving up on Beckham too early and losing the chance for potential value, could. The choice is clear, unless you A) think this is a likely playoff-bound club as constructed today or B) you simply are reacting emotionally because you (like everyone else) have been frustrated that Beckham never turned into the above average player we all wanted him to be.

A+ post.

 

[hammerhead johnson]

The choice is clear. We need Beckham to take the starting gig for three months and put up his usual 85 wRC+ so that we can trade him for a C- or D+ prospect. Because hey, it's better than nothing.

 

Can't wait!

[Princess Dye]

While I like many want Semien to explode and take this thing by horns, I have to agree that there is no downside to doing whatever they do with Semien. AAA or MLB, he can go either way.

 

The argument of "this is not world series year for the White Sox so you can..." works both ways. You can see it as a risk free scenario where you give Semien a shot to lock down a role, or you can see it as a risk free scenario where you build Beckham's value.

 

Now, if what-2014-is changes here in the next month...that would be interesting of course. The year started out as one where you give PK a roster spot and give Nieto a spot because there was no immediate downside and some positive, longer-term organizational health from doing those things. i.e. PK inspiring the youth and Nieto staying Sox property years onward

 

But if the type of year this is changes, then suddenly those things become potential problems. And the reliability of Gordon's defense I suppose can become something the Sox actually want out there ASAP if games start really mattering, and if our offense keeps being solid. Semien may be faster but I think defensively most here would admit Gordon is the guy.

Edited April 15, 2014 by Jose Paniagua

[PorkChopExpress]

So I see that the Blue Jays lost Maicer Izturis for 4-6 months due a torn LCL in his left knee that will require surgery to repair. I think there were rumors of a Beckham to Tornto trade during the offseason. You guys think that might come to fruition soon? Or potentially sending them Keppinger? Or even Leury Garcia or Semien? With Carlos Sanchez (albeit not as touted as he once was) and Micah Johnson in the minors, it appears that the Sox actually have depth at 2B, and not just with fillers. Based on Toronto's need, we should be a perfect fit for a trade.

[Princess Dye]

So I see that the Blue Jays lost Maicer Izturis for 4-6 months due a torn LCL in his left knee that will require surgery to repair. I think there were rumors of a Beckham to Tornto trade during the offseason. You guys think that might come to fruition soon? Or potentially sending them Keppinger? Or even Leury Garcia or Semien? With Carlos Sanchez (albeit not as touted as he once was) and Micah Johnson in the minors, it appears that the Sox actually have depth at 2B, and not just with fillers. Based on Toronto's need, we should be a perfect fit for a trade.

 

Blue Jays only trade for Keppinger if Gord Ash is back

[Balta1701]

So I see that the Blue Jays lost Maicer Izturis for 4-6 months due a torn LCL in his left knee that will require surgery to repair. I think there were rumors of a Beckham to Tornto trade during the offseason. You guys think that might come to fruition soon? Or potentially sending them Keppinger? Or even Leury Garcia or Semien? With Carlos Sanchez (albeit not as touted as he once was) and Micah Johnson in the minors, it appears that the Sox actually have depth at 2B, and not just with fillers. Based on Toronto's need, we should be a perfect fit for a trade.

Torotno was rumored to be interested in Beckham in the offseason so it really does make sense to send him there. But the problem is...Beckham flat out has to get back to the big leagues and at least play a few games beforehand; with an oblique injury Torotno isn't going to just believe "oh he'll be back in x number of days" because who knows how long he'll really take to be back? He was supposed to be almost back a week and a half ago.

 

You've got to at least get him in a handful of big league ballgames and hopefully have him show a bit of success first, so that he establishes he's not compeltely hampered by the oblique. And unfortunately, that means getting Semien out of the way, at least temporarily.

[Eminor3rd]

Keppinger isn't going anywhere until he shows he's healthy.

[witesoxfan]

Torotno was rumored to be interested in Beckham in the offseason so it really does make sense to send him there. But the problem is...Beckham flat out has to get back to the big leagues and at least play a few games beforehand; with an oblique injury Torotno isn't going to just believe "oh he'll be back in x number of days" because who knows how long he'll really take to be back? He was supposed to be almost back a week and a half ago.

 

You've got to at least get him in a handful of big league ballgames and hopefully have him show a bit of success first, so that he establishes he's not compeltely hampered by the oblique. And unfortunately, that means getting Semien out of the way, at least temporarily.

 

You do need that, but it doesn't have to be a lot. Basically, you need him back and healthy for 2 weeks, and you can even do the Izturis thing with him and play him around the infield a bit. Toronto would take a flyer on him right now if they could get him for a song, but I do agree that they should try and get more than that.

[The Sir]

Beckham to Toronto for Romero, straight up.

[Bigsoxhurt35]

If Semien keeps showing improvements and needs to play everyday, hope Beckham comes back and they do move him around. Wouldn't be surprised to see him back for the month of May and hope he does well so we can move him at the end of May or early June.

[beautox]

Beckham to Toronto for Romero, straight up.

 

Beckham is owed 4.18M this year, Romero is currently at AAA with a 6.75ERA and his contract status looks like this 14:$7.5M, 15:$7.5M, 16:$13.1M club option ($0.6M buyout). So the sox would be taking on nearly 11.5M in salary obligations. If the Blue Jays were willing to reduce that to say to the 7.5-5.5M in future obligations and throw in a live arm or two, I would strongly consider making that deal.

[Dick Allen]

Semien now hitting .206 with a .275 OBP and on pace to whiff 205 times.

 

If Beckham did this, posters would be calling for his release. Semien does it, he's a professional hitter with nothing to prove in the minor leagues.

 

LMAO

Edited April 17, 2014 by Dick Allen

[harfman77]

Semien now hitting .206 with a .275 OBP and on pace to whiff 205 times.

 

If Beckham did this, posters would be calling for his release. Semien does it, he's a professional hitter with nothing to prove in the minor leagues.

 

LMAO

 

A lot of fans are like two year olds, they want the new shiny thing because some of the luster has worn off the thing they already have.

[Hawkfan]

I'm ready to see him go. I've heard enough about his "good at bats" . he finally made contact last night, and his at bats were thus a lot shorter, and as always, he got out. I've seen the long at bats too, and they don't look good either. He isn't going to get the walks he needs if all the pitchers in the league know he can't hit.