Soxfest Posted April 17, 2014 Share Posted April 17, 2014 (edited) Robin is one of the worst managers EVER in handling a bullpen! He has been clueless since day 1 on the job. It was not just about last night. Edited April 17, 2014 by Soxfest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottyDo Posted April 17, 2014 Share Posted April 17, 2014 This whole conversation is ridiculous. I'd like to see anyone manage this bullpen "well". What do you imagine it would look like? Is Webb gonna get 300 innings this season? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnCangelosi Posted April 17, 2014 Share Posted April 17, 2014 I believe Ozzie said that he was going to send Pablo Ozuna out there in Game 3 of the World Series. Can you imagine if they lost that game? That would be infuriating. In any event, I have to agree, I hate forfeiting a game, which is what we did last night when putting Garcia on the mound. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted April 17, 2014 Share Posted April 17, 2014 QUOTE (Soxfest @ Apr 17, 2014 -> 04:31 PM) Robin is one of the worst managers EVER in handling a bullpen! He has been clueless since day 1 on the job. It was not just about last night. Frankly, I don't think this could be further from the truth. I don't think he always has a great feel for his bullpen, but I don't think he mismanages it too badly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted April 17, 2014 Share Posted April 17, 2014 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Apr 17, 2014 -> 04:46 PM) Frankly, I don't think this could be further from the truth. I don't think he always has a great feel for his bullpen, but I don't think he mismanages it too badly. Any manager will look stupid when none of his pitchers can throw strikes. Most fans realize the difference there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mighty Mite Posted April 17, 2014 Share Posted April 17, 2014 Robin was not a good choice to begin with, he has shown no improvement in his OJT. The Sox made it worse by extending him. No way should you run out of pitchers in a 14 inning game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted April 17, 2014 Share Posted April 17, 2014 QUOTE (The Mighty Mite @ Apr 17, 2014 -> 04:53 PM) Robin was not a good choice to begin with, he has shown no improvement in his OJT. The Sox made it worse by extending him. No way should you run out of pitchers in a 14 inning game. If he had managed that game like it was going to be a 14 inning game, it would have surely been over in 9. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vance Law Posted April 17, 2014 Share Posted April 17, 2014 QUOTE (Soxfest @ Apr 17, 2014 -> 04:31 PM) Robin is one of the worst managers EVER in handling a bullpen! He has been clueless since day 1 on the job. It was not just about last night. The bullpen, made up of rookies and reclamation projects in this rebuilding year, has a 6.38 ERA. Complaining about the manager in a game where the pitchers walk 15 is bizarre. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammerhead johnson Posted April 17, 2014 Share Posted April 17, 2014 He's universally regarded as a buffoon at this point. And it breaks my heart, because he's a borderline hall of famer with close to a 60 WAR. To put that in perspective, Paul Konerko has a 26 WAR, Baines is at 38, etc. Ventura is legitimately one of the greatest White Sox players of all time, and I love his sooo much Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammerhead johnson Posted April 17, 2014 Share Posted April 17, 2014 QUOTE (Vance Law @ Apr 17, 2014 -> 11:01 PM) The bullpen, made up of rookies and reclamation projects in this rebuilding year, has a 6.38 ERA. Complaining about the manager in a game where the pitchers walk 15 is bizarre. Nah. The 9th is Webb time. Deep down, you know this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxfest Posted April 17, 2014 Share Posted April 17, 2014 QUOTE (Vance Law @ Apr 17, 2014 -> 05:01 PM) The bullpen, made up of rookies and reclamation projects in this rebuilding year, has a 6.38 ERA. Complaining about the manager in a game where the pitchers walk 15 is bizarre. It is not about just last night. I never said it was,not reading the whole comment is bizarre. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vance Law Posted April 17, 2014 Share Posted April 17, 2014 QUOTE (hammerhead johnson @ Apr 17, 2014 -> 05:03 PM) Nah. The 9th is Webb time. Deep down, you know this. And yet he has a worse ERA than Cleto. The bullpen is a pile. Nobody's supposed to care as we're not supposed to compete this year. But some early season fireworks have people hopeful, ignoring the fact that this bullpen isn't built to win. If you want to blame Ventura for the bullpen's performance, I'd like to nominate him for manager of the year because Belisario pitched a scoreless 7th inning. It was a genius move deploying that terrible pitcher with (now) a 12.79 ERA at just the right moment for him to succeed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vance Law Posted April 17, 2014 Share Posted April 17, 2014 QUOTE (Soxfest @ Apr 17, 2014 -> 05:11 PM) It is not about just last night. I never said it was,not reading the whole comment is bizarre. He made Jesse Crain unhittable last year. That was a good move. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxfest Posted April 17, 2014 Share Posted April 17, 2014 (edited) QUOTE (Vance Law @ Apr 17, 2014 -> 05:23 PM) He made Jesse Crain unhittable last year. That was a good move. Overuse hurt Crain's shoulder and he did not pitch the last 3 months of 2013 not exactly a ringing endorsement for Ventura. Edited April 17, 2014 by Soxfest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted April 17, 2014 Share Posted April 17, 2014 QUOTE (Soxfest @ Apr 17, 2014 -> 06:31 PM) Overuse hurt Crain's arm and he did not pitch the last 3 months of 2013 not exactly a ringing endorsement for Ventura. Still never really found strong evidence for Overuse in Crain's numbers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted April 17, 2014 Share Posted April 17, 2014 QUOTE (hammerhead johnson @ Apr 17, 2014 -> 05:03 PM) Nah. The 9th is Webb time. Deep down, you know this. What did Webb do his first inning last night? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted April 18, 2014 Share Posted April 18, 2014 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Apr 17, 2014 -> 05:33 PM) Still never really found strong evidence for Overuse in Crain's numbers. I remember one extended outing in an extra inning game, that is about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted April 18, 2014 Share Posted April 18, 2014 Leury joins Wise and Casper Wells as Sox position players in recent memory to have pitched. Frankly I was wondering what happens if it goes too many extras when he pulled Petricka and Downs after only one hitter. But as other have said 15 walks, who ya gonna call ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted April 18, 2014 Share Posted April 18, 2014 Honestly every manager will look terrible when their bullpen was terrible. I think Robin was exhausting every bullpen arm in 8th because he wanted to win and not go into extras. We don't have arms that can preserve leads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chitownsportsfan Posted April 18, 2014 Share Posted April 18, 2014 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Apr 17, 2014 -> 04:55 PM) If he had managed that game like it was going to be a 14 inning game, it would have surely been over in 9. You nailed it. He f***ed it up plain and simple. I disagreed with bringing in Downs, then I disagreed with the quick hook, but that stuff ok whatever. Letting Cleto start the 9th however is unacceptable with a rested Webb and Lindstrom. That he didn't use his best two relievers until runners on in the 9th tells you everything you need to know. The game was blown at that point. Robin is a disaster with his tactics, I just hope his "rah rah" s*** is something special. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feeky Magee Posted April 18, 2014 Share Posted April 18, 2014 QUOTE (Vance Law @ Apr 17, 2014 -> 05:21 PM) And yet he has a worse ERA than Cleto. The bullpen is a pile. Nobody's supposed to care as we're not supposed to compete this year. But some early season fireworks have people hopeful, ignoring the fact that this bullpen isn't built to win. If you want to blame Ventura for the bullpen's performance, I'd like to nominate him for manager of the year because Belisario pitched a scoreless 7th inning. It was a genius move deploying that terrible pitcher with (now) a 12.79 ERA at just the right moment for him to succeed. As I pointed out in the other thread, Cleto's peripherals are bad, he has a good ERA at the moment on the strength of things he can't control and that will regress to the norm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vance Law Posted April 18, 2014 Share Posted April 18, 2014 QUOTE (chitownsportsfan @ Apr 17, 2014 -> 07:22 PM) Robin is a disaster with his tactics He doesn't have tactics in his bullpen. He has pitchers. Bad ones. His pitchers are a disaster with their pitches (tactics). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted April 18, 2014 Share Posted April 18, 2014 QUOTE (Feeky Magee @ Apr 17, 2014 -> 07:35 PM) As I pointed out in the other thread, Cleto's peripherals are bad, he has a good ERA at the moment on the strength of things he can't control and that will regress to the norm. The entire bullpen is awful right now. Targeting one guy doesn't make sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feeky Magee Posted April 18, 2014 Share Posted April 18, 2014 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Apr 17, 2014 -> 07:53 PM) The entire bullpen is awful right now. Targeting one guy doesn't make sense. I'm hardly saying "Cleto is the problem of the bullpen, it's good apart from him." I'm questioning how someone with as bad a recent history as Cleto is being put in high-leverage situations, seemingly solely on the strength of his 2014 ERA, when there are clearly more sensible options. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted April 18, 2014 Share Posted April 18, 2014 QUOTE (Feeky Magee @ Apr 17, 2014 -> 08:15 PM) I'm hardly saying "Cleto is the problem of the bullpen, it's good apart from him." I'm questioning how someone with as bad a recent history as Cleto is being put in high-leverage situations, seemingly solely on the strength of his 2014 ERA, when there are clearly more sensible options. There is one guy who hasn't completely sucked. One. The whole bullpen has been awful this year. Like legendarily bad. There is basically no one who SHOULD be put into high leverage situations, but since baseball still requires a pitcher, you have to put someone out there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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