Worst Mistake of Robin's Young Career?

[VAfan]

I couldn't even see the game, but the choices by Ventura make no sense.

 

Webb should be the closer NOW. He's the only relief pitcher who has done his job.

 

Lindstrom should be the 8th inning set up guy.

 

The rest of the guys should cover the 6th-7th, depending on what is needed.

 

Someone who can throw multiple innings should be kept in reserve as the long guy for potential extra inning games, or to use if the starter can't make it through at least 6.

 

Applying that principle to last night's game, Robin would have gone to Lindstrom to start the 8th with a two-run lead and no one on. Let's say he gives up the same run that was allowed by the 4 relievers Robin used.

 

Webb would then have started the 9th. If he blew the save, he could have pitched the 10th. At that point, he would not have been gassed, and you would still have had 4 guys in the pen.

 

Clearly, the Sox are lacking quality relievers. But this is not the first time Robin has burned through multiple relievers just to try to get an out or two before the 9th.

 

Personally, I thought one of the things Ozzie did well was manage the pitching staff. Of course he had a better staff, especially in 2005. But he also used them well. The starters went 100 pitches no matter what they had, and then he went to the bullpen. This kept the pen fresh. I think they had the fewest innings of any team in the majors that year. Or were close.

[Feeky Magee]

There is one guy who hasn't completely sucked. One. The whole bullpen has been awful this year. Like legendarily bad. There is basically no one who SHOULD be put into high leverage situations, but since baseball still requires a pitcher, you have to put someone out there.

Yeah, but you don't just say "everyone is awful, let's just throw someone out there." You look at the degrees to which people have been bad, why they have been bad, how long have they been bad for. Cleto has the worst history of the lot.

[Dick Allen]

Yeah, but you don't just say "everyone is awful, let's just throw someone out there." You look at the degrees to which people have been bad, why they have been bad, how long have they been bad for. Cleto has the worst history of the lot.

If you go all by his past, the guy shouldn't be in uniform. He should be selling cars. I agree his past should be a consideration, but the White Sox thought they have pretty much solved his control problems. Obviously, that wasn't the case last night.

[Feeky Magee]

If you go all by his past, the guy shouldn't be in uniform. He should be selling cars. I agree his past should be a consideration, but the White Sox thought they have pretty much solved his control problems. Obviously, that wasn't the case last night.

I'd question why they thought they'd solved that given that even before last night he had a BB/9 that would've been dead last in the majors last year out of the 206 pitchers that threw more that 50 innings.

[greg775]

I believe Ozzie said that he was going to send Pablo Ozuna out there in Game 3 of the World Series. Can you imagine if they lost that game? That would be infuriating. In any event, I have to agree, I hate forfeiting a game, which is what we did last night when putting Garcia on the mound.

 

That's what I'm so mad about. The Sox elected to forfeit the game basically in the 14th by bringing in a guy you could hit. Even Stoney said this is the time a starter has to volunteer to pitch for the good of the team.

Edited April 18, 2014 by greg775

[mmmmmbeeer]

I found him not challenging that KC home run last week a greater mistake than managing his crap b.p. last night.

[LittleHurt05]

That's what I'm so mad about. The Sox elected to forfeit the game basically in the 14th by bringing in a guy you could hit. Even Stoney said this is the time a starter has to volunteer to pitch for the good of the team.

 

Game 3 of the World Series vs. game 14 of a 162 game season for a rebuilding team

 

Felipe Paulino vs. Mark Buehrle

 

It's really that simple to understand

[nickofypres]

Robin has no business being a manager.

[ScottyDo]

I found him not challenging that KC home run last week a greater mistake than managing his crap b.p. last night.

Which one? KC didn't have one in that series. If it's the Cleveland one I'm thinking of that people blasted Ventura for in the game thread, that HR bounced off the foul pole. There just wasn't a good video shot of it. Everyone in the ball park knew it was a HR. DJ and Farmer talked about it extensively the next game.

[glangon]

Robin isn't the greatest manager out there but to blame him for the failing bullpen is taking things too far.

 

In the bullpen, you have a closer that can't close - Matt Lindstrom

You have a lefty speciallist that walks the lefties he faces - Scott Downs

You have a set up guy who can't get outs, walks people and is erratic - Ronald Bellisario

You had your second lefty who threw more balls than strikes which ultimately cost him his roster spot - Donnie Veal.

You have a newbie that has done well but does walk too many hitters - Maikel Cleto

 

Nate Jones wasn't fit and got hit around.

 

That leaves you with two rookies in the bullpen to rely on in Dan Webb and Jacob Petricka.

 

Any manager would struggle to manage that bunch. The so-called veterans need to step up and do what they get paid for, especially Bellisario and Downs. Once those two sort it out and Jones returns, the rest of the pen will fall into place.

[oldsox]

Still, it is easy to second guess RV again after last night's loss, esp leaving Bellbottums in to pitch the 9th after escaping the 8th due to PK's good play on the double play. RV was gun shy after Wed night debacle with no pitchers. was not going to let that happen again, so he leaves him in, game over.

[southsider2k5]

Yeah, but you don't just say "everyone is awful, let's just throw someone out there." You look at the degrees to which people have been bad, why they have been bad, how long have they been bad for. Cleto has the worst history of the lot.

 

So they never should have used Matt Thornton for anything, ever, because he had years of being bad before he got here, right?

[southsider2k5]

Which one? KC didn't have one in that series. If it's the Cleveland one I'm thinking of that people blasted Ventura for in the game thread, that HR bounced off the foul pole. There just wasn't a good video shot of it. Everyone in the ball park knew it was a HR. DJ and Farmer talked about it extensively the next game.

 

IT hit the pole. I heard it hit sitting right next to the pole. The didn't challenge it because it was a HR.

[Feeky Magee]

So they never should have used Matt Thornton for anything, ever, because he had years of being bad before he got here, right?

Thornton was never as bad as Cleto was last year but regardless, my point is that Cleto should not be in high-leverage situations right now, seemingly solely based on the fact that he has a (luckily) good 2014 ERA. If he shows the amount of improvement Thornton showed, then sure. Was Thornton pitching in high-leverage situations after he had pitched just 20 innings in the majors?

[Dick Allen]

Thornton was never as bad as Cleto was last year but regardless, my point is that Cleto should not be in high-leverage situations right now, seemingly solely based on the fact that he has a (luckily) good 2014 ERA. If he shows the amount of improvement Thornton showed, then sure. Was Thornton pitching in high-leverage situations after he had pitched just 20 innings in the majors?

I really don't know how you conclude Cleto starting the ninth was based entirely on his current ERA. If that was the case, there are only one or two relievers Ventura would ever use.

[southsider2k5]

Thornton was never as bad as Cleto was last year but regardless, my point is that Cleto should not be in high-leverage situations right now, seemingly solely based on the fact that he has a (luckily) good 2014 ERA. If he shows the amount of improvement Thornton showed, then sure. Was Thornton pitching in high-leverage situations after he had pitched just 20 innings in the majors?

 

What proof do you actually have for this? You've kept repeating it like it is true. Why?

[Eminor3rd]

This thread is bonkers. This is like stuff from the White Sox Facebook Twitter account.

[witesoxfan]

This thread is bonkers. This is like stuff from the White Sox Facebook Twitter account.

 

I especially like all the "Robin is the worst," "Robin has no business managing," "Robin never does anything right why is he still here" when the last manager made just as many or more reprehensible moves, but because the Sox had an incredible year all around in 2005, he gets a free pass as a result.

 

All managers will look bad when their players fail, and all managers will look good when their players succeed. There are questionable moves that have been made, but someone is going to have a coronary if they continue to analyze every single move he makes under a microscope.

[Kyyle23]

I especially like all the "Robin is the worst," "Robin has no business managing," "Robin never does anything right why is he still here" when the last manager made just as many or more reprehensible moves, but because the Sox had an incredible year all around in 2005, he gets a free pass as a result.

 

All managers will look bad when their players fail, and all managers will look good when their players succeed. There are questionable moves that have been made, but someone is going to have a coronary if they continue to analyze every single move he makes under a microscope.

 

there will be a lot of coronaries on soxtalk.com this season

[southsider2k5]

Ventura's worst possible mistake would be listening to fans.

[Eminor3rd]

I especially like all the "Robin is the worst," "Robin has no business managing," "Robin never does anything right why is he still here" when the last manager made just as many or more reprehensible moves, but because the Sox had an incredible year all around in 2005, he gets a free pass as a result.

 

All managers will look bad when their players fail, and all managers will look good when their players succeed. There are questionable moves that have been made, but someone is going to have a coronary if they continue to analyze every single move he makes under a microscope.

 

I think anyone who is blaming Robin for the loss just read the boxscore. If you actually stayed up and watched the game you know it's clearly all on the bullpen performance.

[witesoxfan]

I think anyone who is blaming Robin for the loss just read the boxscore. If you actually stayed up and watched the game you know it's clearly all on the bullpen performance.

 

It's surely not his fault that his guys walked 15 batters. I saw that and came to two possible non-mutually exclusive conclusions:

 

1) The pitchers were wild

2) The strike zone was small, erratic, and/or inconsistent.

 

I didn't immediately think "hmm, Robin sure f'ed that one up."

[Eminor3rd]

It's surely not his fault that his guys walked 15 batters. I saw that and came to two possible non-mutually exclusive conclusions:

 

1) The pitchers were wild

2) The strike zone was small, erratic, and/or inconsistent.

 

I didn't immediately think "hmm, Robin sure f'ed that one up."

 

You hit it on the head when you said, "if he managed it like a 14 inning game, it would have been over in 9."

[Feeky Magee]

I really don't know how you conclude Cleto starting the ninth was based entirely on his current ERA. If that was the case, there are only one or two relievers Ventura would ever use.

Well it's a bit simplistic to say based entirely on his current ERA, but I think putting him in in the 8th in a high leverage situation and leaving him in for the 9th was largely based on his perceived good performance this year. Obviously they think he has the stuff as well, but if his ERA more accurately matched his peripherals, i don't think he gets put in there. A degree of guesswork involved there of course.

[SCCWS]

Robin isn't the greatest manager out there but to blame him for the failing bullpen is taking things too far.

 

In the bullpen, you have a closer that can't close - Matt Lindstrom

You have a lefty speciallist that walks the lefties he faces - Scott Downs

You have a set up guy who can't get outs, walks people and is erratic - Ronald Bellisario

You had your second lefty who threw more balls than strikes which ultimately cost him his roster spot - Donnie Veal.

You have a newbie that has done well but does walk too many hitters - Maikel Cleto

 

Nate Jones wasn't fit and got hit around.

 

That leaves you with two rookies in the bullpen to rely on in Dan Webb and Jacob Petricka.

 

Any manager would struggle to manage that bunch. The so-called veterans need to step up and do what they get paid for, especially Bellisario and Downs. Once those two sort it out and Jones returns, the rest of the pen will fall into place.

 

 

It's Coop's fault.