Season 6 of the Gordon Beckham Era

[southsider2k5]

Garcia does things the vast majority of infielders can only dream of. Bobbling a few balls doesn't change his tools.

 

I've never seen anything like the Beckham apologists among Sox fans. You guys make Team Brian Anderson look like cynics.

 

That isn't an endorsement of Beckham. Not by far.

 

Garcia does fast. It isn't help anyone to get to a ball only to blow the play.

[shakes]

His numbers in AA this year mean nothing. He was rehabbing. It's like spring training numbers. How has that translated for Jordan Danks?

 

Besides, Beckham has better career numbers than Semien. So if Beckham doesn't "deserve" it, why would Semien?

 

Have Semien start taking some fungos in the OF. It's not a big deal having an infielder play some OF. Having an OF move to the infield is a bit more complicated.

 

Many forget, Alexei Ramirez debuted as a CF for the White Sox.

 

Gillaspie said he probably will miss a few more days. I wouldn't be surprised if he winds up DL'd.

 

So, Beckham gets to struggle in the minors and it's meaningless, but Semien and his 94 at bats should be viewed as a final product? Great argument.

 

Nevermind, that Semien and his poor start are right on line with Gordon's career numbers. Semien already shows a better understanding of the strike zone, he projects as a better base runner, defender, and is more versatile.

 

And you know young players can get better. Imagine that.

 

 

We don't know what Semien's ceiling is, but we already know Beckham pretty much sucks.

 

The only thing I'm interested in seeing is how Gordon responds to competition and actually having to earn his job.

[caulfield12]

Luck. You know that.

 

Furthermore, way to cherry pick. Beckham had game-winning hits his first season, too.

 

Semien's OPS is sub-.700. He's done nothing to hold down the spot. If his offensive performance was even Leury Garcia level, you'd have a point. The old maxim "you don't lose your position due to injury" is overplayed and overrated, but Semien hasn't performed well enough to combat it at all.

 

 

So Alexei Ramirez was lucky in 2008 and now in 2014?

 

All those walk/BB totals from the minor leagues are going to balance out too...he's not going to have more K's at the major league level than Hawkins at W-S, for example.

 

It's not like rookies just maintain a flat or level statistical curve in season-long projections.

 

 

 

Dayan Viciedo has something like only 11 K's and 5-6 BB's now. Who would have projected that?

Or Flowers?

 

Odds are that Semien's walks will increase and K's decrease, it's on the back of his minor league cards.

Edited April 24, 2014 by caulfield12

[ScottyDo]

So, Beckham gets to struggle in the minors and it's meaningless, but Semien and his 94 at bats should be viewed as a final product? Great argument.

 

Nevermind, that Semien and his poor start are right on line with Gordon's career numbers. Semien already shows a better understanding of the strike zone, he projects as a better base runner, defender, and is more versatile.

 

And you know young players can get better. Imagine that.

 

 

We don't know what Semien's ceiling is, but we already know Beckham pretty much sucks.

 

The only thing I'm interested in seeing is how Gordon responds to competition and actually having to earn his job.

Dude's got a ~30% K-rate at the major league level. Beckham's career rate is less than half that and has never reached 20%.

 

Don't get me wrong, Semien projects to be better than Beckham for sure, but let's not pretend like he's got nothing left to prove at AAA.

[ScottyDo]

So Alexei Ramirez was lucky in 2008 and now in 2014?

 

All those walk/BB totals from the minor leagues are going to balance out too...he's not going to have more K's at the major league level than Hawkins at W-S, for example.

 

It's not like rookies just maintain a flat or level statistical curve in season-long projections.

 

 

 

Dayan Viciedo has something like only 11 K's and 5-6 BB's now. Who would have projected that?

Or Flowers?

 

Odds are that Semien's walks will increase and K's decrease, it's on the back of his minor league cards.

No. It's not luck when you hit well in all situations. That's just good hitting. Luck is when you suck really bad but happen to come through 3-4 times with people on base and late in games.

[TaylorStSox]

This s*** is like Level 61 fanboyism

[ScottyDo]

This s*** is like Level 61 fanboyism

What is? You're strawmanning like crazy here. Nobody said Beckham is a good player.

[TaylorStSox]

What is? You're strawmanning like crazy here. Nobody said Beckham is a good player.

You said he earned the position and shouldn't lose it due to injury. He hasn't come close to earning a damn thing.

[southsider2k5]

This s*** is I say when I don't have a concrete argument.

 

[ScottyDo]

You said he earned the position and shouldn't lose it due to injury. He hasn't come close to earning a damn thing.

I did not say that. I said Semien has done nothing to stick. He has been flat-out terrible so far with the exception of a few well-timed HRs. If those HRs happened in different situations, Semien Fever would be a low simmer. He's got plenty of potential but he still has a LOT to learn and can do so at AAA.

[southsider2k5]

I really am split here. I don't think Semien has the chops to be the SS of the future but it wouldn't hurt to find out in Charlotte. He's become quite the darling around here and I like him as well but it's not as if he's flourishing at the big league level. While he does lead the league in PAs, he is third in strikeouts. Someone is going to be the odd man out between Semien, Danks and Garcia and I just think that Danks and Garcia are the ideal bench types and Semien should be playing everyday.

 

It sucks as a fan, but sending Semien to Charlotte with an understanding of what he needs to work on, as well as the understanding that there will be a spot for him here in 2-3 months, might not hurt him. This argument would be a lot easier to break down if we knew what the brass thought of Semien. I think most people, myself included, think he's the 2B of the future but there is a chance they want him at SS.

 

All of this just makes me wonder what they do when Keppinger gets back? When exactly is that? There is no spot whatsoever for that clown.

 

 

This is all good stuff.

[TaylorStSox]

Somebody please make an argument for Beckham being an everyday player.

 

Semien is striking out because he works counts and he's seeing a lot of these pitchers for the first time. He's not going to learn to fight off major league pitching in AAA.

[shakes]

I did not say that. I said Semien has done nothing to stick. He has been flat-out terrible so far with the exception of a few well-timed HRs. If those HRs happened in different situations, Semien Fever would be a low simmer. He's got plenty of potential but he still has a LOT to learn and can do so at AAA.

 

 

If Semien has been flat out terribe, than Beckham's career is flat out terrible.

 

Sending Semien down so Beckham can play defeats the whole purpose of this season. Semien should be given time to adjust, like any young player should. I can't figure out the argument that Beckham and his 2500 plate appearances needs more time to show what he can do, but Semien has sucked in a SSS and should be sent down, even thought their numbers are the same and Semien does everything else better.

 

The Sox have been using this season so guys like Semien, Viciedo, Garcia, Gillespie, Webb, Johnson, Eaton can gain some experience and they can gage what they have for the future.

 

Struggles with young players are going to happen. They need time to work through them and see if they can grow.

 

Semien has a lot more to gain playing at the MLB level than he does in AAA.

 

 

[ScottyDo]

Somebody please make an argument for Beckham being an everyday player.

 

Semien is striking out because he works counts and he's seeing a lot of these pitchers for the first time. He's not going to learn to fight off major league pitching in AAA.

Working counts is leading to Ks, not BBs. Anyone can work a count into a K. Semien had a .806 OPS in limited AAA at-bats. He hasn't exactly demonstrated that he's learned all he can at that level.

[elrockinMT]

How about we support our team and players. Good to see Beckham back and I am sure Semien gets plenty of playing time

[ScottyDo]

If Semien has been flat out terribe, than Beckham's career is flat out terrible.

 

Sending Semien down so Beckham can play defeats the whole purpose of this season. Semien should be given time to adjust, like any young player should. I can't figure out the argument that Beckham and his 2500 plate appearances needs more time to show what he can do, but Semien has sucked in a SSS and should be sent down, even thought their numbers are the same and Semien does everything else better.

 

The Sox have been using this season so guys like Semien, Viciedo, Garcia, Gillespie, Webb, Johnson, Eaton can gain some experience and they can gage what they have for the future.

 

Struggles with young players are going to happen. They need time to work through them and see if they can grow.

 

Semien has a lot more to gain playing at the MLB level than he does in AAA.

All of those guys have demonstrated better mastery of AAA than Semien. If Semien had shown that he had nothing left to learn at lower levels, then I agree: ship off Beckham for a bag of balls and let Semien develop up here. That's not the case.

[Dick Allen]

What is Semien's long term position anyway? If Davidson is the 3B of the future and Micah Johnson at 2B, where is Semien going to play? If it's SS, shouldn't he be playing there and go off on the Sox for not giving Ramirez away?

Edited April 24, 2014 by Dick Allen

[witesoxfan]

What is Semien's long term position anyway? If Davidson is the 3B of the future and Micah Johnson at 2B, where is Semien going to play?

 

I don't think we know that either of those two are. The plan is for Davidson to be at 3B, but as you pointed out this offseason, a lot could really go wrong with him and thus far has. Micah Johnson is in AA and there's questions of whether or not he can stick at 2B long term.

 

Right now, Semien appears to be the answer at 2B. If Johnson and Davidson both force the Sox hand, that's a great problem to have.

[witesoxfan]

Working counts is leading to Ks, not BBs. Anyone can work a count into a K. Semien had a .806 OPS in limited AAA at-bats. He hasn't exactly demonstrated that he's learned all he can at that level.

 

Semien is 18th in the MLB in P/PA right now at 4.27. Getting pitcher's counts up high and allowing the teammates to see what kind of stuff does have intrinsic value and is part of the reason the Sox offense has been as good as it has.

[Dick Allen]

Semien is 18th in the MLB in P/PA right now at 4.27. Getting pitcher's counts up high and allowing the teammates to see what kind of stuff does have intrinsic value and is part of the reason the Sox offense has been as good as it has.

Yes, but striking out is a guaranteed 3. The Sox offense would be better if Semien got on base more than 28% of the time.

[ScottyDo]

Semien is 18th in the MLB in P/PA right now at 4.27. Getting pitcher's counts up high and allowing the teammates to see what kind of stuff does have intrinsic value and is part of the reason the Sox offense has been as good as it has.

I'm not arguing that. That's true. But in terms of personal development, it's not doing him any good. You'd expect his walk rate to be higher along with his high K rate if he was demonstrating growth along with his P/PA rate.

 

I could probably walk up there and get 4 P/PA if I never took the bat off my shoulder. But I'd also have like a 95% K rate.

[shakes]

All of those guys have demonstrated better mastery of AAA than Semien. If Semien had shown that he had nothing left to learn at lower levels, then I agree: ship off Beckham for a bag of balls and let Semien develop up here. That's not the case.

 

He played 32 games at AAA. And you might want to check your numbers on all those guys. He is developing at the highest level and holding his won. There is no better experience than that.

 

The top player line is Mike Trout's line in his first stint in the majors. The bottom is Semien. I'm in NO way saying Semien will be half the player, but as you can see everyone goes through an adjustment period. Even the poster boy for superstars jumping to the majors.

 

G PA AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI SB CS BB SO BA OBP SLG OPS OPS+ TB GDP HBP SH SF IBB

40 135 123 20 27 6 0 5 16 4 0 9 30 .220 .281 .390 .672 89 48 2 2 0 1 0 897/D

42 171 163 20 40 8 1 5 20 4 2 7 50 .245 .275 .399 .674 81 65 4 0 0 1 0

[Balta1701]

Without getting into the Semien discussion, I'm genuinely surprised to see Beckham coming up since AFAIK he hadn't done jack squat with the bat at Birmingham. Has that changed the last couple days?

[Dick Allen]

He played 32 games at AAA. And you might want to check your numbers on all those guys. He is developing at the highest level and holding his won. There is no better experience than that.

 

The top player line is Mike Trout's line in his first stint in the majors. The bottom is Semien. I'm in NO way saying Semien will be half the player, but as you can see everyone goes through an adjustment period. Even the poster boy for superstars jumping to the majors.

 

G PA AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI SB CS BB SO BA OBP SLG OPS OPS+ TB GDP HBP SH SF IBB

40 135 123 20 27 6 0 5 16 4 0 9 30 .220 .281 .390 .672 89 48 2 2 0 1 0 897/D

42 171 163 20 40 8 1 5 20 4 2 7 50 .245 .275 .399 .674 81 65 4 0 0 1 0

Mike Trout was 19 years old. He also was a top 3 prospect in baseball. Has Semien even cracked a top 100?

[witesoxfan]

Yes, but striking out is a guaranteed 3. The Sox offense would be better if Semien got on base more than 28% of the time.

 

Let's cherry pick

 

In his last 90 plate appearances, he's put up .262/.311/.440/.752. He's on a 4 game hitting streak. He's also a rookie and he's doing fairly well for a rookie.

 

---

 

You do know that you can just say "I don't like Marcus Semien" and be done with it, right? I really happen to like him and wish he would remain starting because I think he can be a great player for the Sox, but I'm not going to be heartbroken if the Sox feel it's in the team's best interests to send him to AAA.