Eminor3rd Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 Jesus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
royoung Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 (edited) QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Apr 28, 2014 -> 10:16 AM) Please don't patronize me. You were happy the Sox bought corn in somebody's stool when they signed Paulino. It isn't pointless. I just want to know why the 2nd round pick was considered so valuable before, but now it's "the Sox will be lucky if higher picks work out, but it's not just them it is everyone". I'm not trolling, just wanting to know why people changed their minds. I always viewed the draft as a reasonable game of chance. For argument's sake, let's say that 1 out of every 10 1st and 2nd round draft picks reach or come close to their projection. So you need to endure through nine Walkers, Mitchells, Broadways, etc etc to get a Sale. You can complain about the aforementioned busts, but it doesn't mean you should stop playing the game. You need quantity in terms of picks in order to increase your odds of hitting quality. Giving away high picks and complaining that our scouting department should be hitting on less chances is not the answer. Edited April 28, 2014 by southside hitman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Apr 28, 2014 -> 10:16 AM) Please don't patronize me. You were happy the Sox bought corn in somebody's stool when they signed Paulino. It isn't pointless. I just want to know why the 2nd round pick was considered so valuable before, but now it's "the Sox will be lucky if higher picks work out, but it's not just them it is everyone". I'm not trolling, just wanting to know why people changed their minds. No one changed anything, except you changing the terms of the conversation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Jimmy0 Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Apr 28, 2014 -> 10:16 AM) Please don't patronize me. You were happy the Sox bought corn in somebody's stool when they signed Paulino. It isn't pointless. I just want to know why the 2nd round pick was considered so valuable before, but now it's "the Sox will be lucky if higher picks work out, but it's not just them it is everyone". I'm not trolling, just wanting to know why people changed their minds. Dick, are you in favor of the Sox drafting Rodon if he's available? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 You know who else isn't looking good? Ubaldo Jimenez: http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playe...&position=P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Apr 28, 2014 -> 11:12 AM) You know who else isn't looking good? Ubaldo Jimenez: http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playe...&position=P It is pretty amazing how similar his numbers are to Erik Johnson, at about 28 times the cost. Johnson 23.2IP 6.46ERA 27 hits 15 BB 18K 1.775WHIP 1HR 5.7 BB/9 1.2 K/BB Jimenez 27.1IP 6.59ERA 33 hits 17 BB 21K 1.829WHIP 5HR 5.6 BB/9 1.24 K/BB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maggsmaggs Posted April 28, 2014 Author Share Posted April 28, 2014 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Apr 28, 2014 -> 11:19 AM) It is pretty amazing how similar his numbers are to Erik Johnson, at about 28 times the cost. Johnson 23.2IP 6.46ERA 27 hits 15 BB 18K 1.775WHIP 1HR 5.7 BB/9 1.2 K/BB Jimenez 27.1IP 6.59ERA 33 hits 17 BB 21K 1.829WHIP 5HR 5.6 BB/9 1.24 K/BB Except one has been a 3.0-plus WAR pitcher in five of the last six years. Much easier to say Jimenez is just in a funk and will come out of than Johnson who has no Major League track record. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 QUOTE (maggsmaggs @ Apr 28, 2014 -> 12:24 PM) Except one has been a 3.0-plus WAR pitcher in five of the last six years. Much easier to say Jimenez is just in a funk and will come out of than Johnson who has no Major League track record. I could go the other way though and ask "Which one has lost the most velocity"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILMOU Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Apr 28, 2014 -> 10:30 AM) I could go the other way though and ask "Which one has lost the most velocity"? ...or has $50M+ committed to them, for instance, versus zero $. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Apr 28, 2014 -> 10:44 AM) Dick, are you in favor of the Sox drafting Rodon if he's available? Absolutely, and I know where this is going. You are going to say that bonus money would be gone and there won't be enough for Rodon. But everyone assumes Rodon won't sign unless he eats up 90% of the pool money. The fact is, many posters who had to have the pick still don't want Rodon for fear he will take the bonus money of guys who have a 1 in 20 if not lower chance of making an impact. They even want to go below slot on that pick to offer lower and lesser thought of players even more.No one here knows his demands. I don't think Appel is an example of the route Rodon wants to go. In the long run, if he is anywhere as good as advertised, it will probably cost him money as his development will be behind a year, maybe more. If Appel signed with Pittsburgh he may be in the major leagues right now. Supposedly Appel turned down $6 million from the Astros in 2012, and signed for $6.35 million in 2013. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Apr 28, 2014 -> 05:48 PM) Absolutely, and I know where this is going. You are going to say that bonus money would be gone and there won't be enough for Rodon. But everyone assumes Rodon won't sign unless he eats up 90% of the pool money. The fact is, many posters who had to have the pick still don't want Rodon for fear he will take the bonus money of guys who have a 1 in 20 if not lower chance of making an impact. They even want to go below slot on that pick to offer lower and lesser thought of players even more.No one here knows his demands. I don't think Appel is an example of the route Rodon wants to go. In the long run, if he is anywhere as good as advertised, it will probably cost him money as his development will be behind a year, maybe more. If Appel signed with Pittsburgh he may be in the major leagues right now. Supposedly Appel turned down $6 million from the Astros in 2012, and signed for $6.35 million in 2013. sorry for the late reply ... so the players who succeeded, who are not international drafted, were someone draft pick. any teams draft pick. is it shear dumb luck that they had success and lets say we, the sox org didn't ? is it our scouting philosophy that needed to be change? lets assume, for this discussion, that only 2nd rounder panned out, should we not draft in the 1st round ? we have been getting good results when Hahn took over .... and I will not forget the world series win, but when your team has lousy result from drafting, we needed to change that sooner. Peace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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