sox need to trade alexei once out of contention

[southsider2k5]

But don't they legitimately have a chance to compete in 2015 and 2016 with another legit starter and a few more veteran bullpen pieces?

 

 

(With our current offense, you have to argue yes. But having to replace Flowers/Viciedo/Ramirez/DH and possibly 3B...although Davidson and Gillaspie should provide ONE answer there...then you're pushing things back to 2016 and beyond. That's the year you realistically could expect Rodon to have a big impact too, if he slips to #3 and we can sign him.)

 

Until attendance really picks up, I see no way that the Sox spend $100 million on any starter that I see out there as available.

[southsider2k5]

So you would also agree the Royals are eliminated in early May?

 

I just assume the Royals are out of it.

[LittleHurt05]

I just assume the Royals are out of it.

 

It's been like that for 28 years, why would it change now?

[southsider2k5]

It's been like that for 28 years, why would it change now?

Exactly.

 

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

I think the odds of the Sox trading Ramirez this season are almost nil.

 

1. The Sox may be out of the AL Central race at some point, given the Tigers pitching, but they aren't likely to be out of the wildcard race at any point where a trade could still logically be made.

 

2. You don't trade a guy who's playing above his contract, where the Sox have no one who could come close to replacing his production, offensively OR defensively. To trade Ramirez, in other words, is to CREATE A HOLE, when the object of moves is to FILL HOLES.

 

3. Trading the Cuban would send a very bad message. The Sox have several Cubans now, and with Jose Contreras and El Duque, had several other Cubans recently. This is a plus for the team. We got Abreu for a bargain. Would he have signed with the Sox without that Cuban connection? Would Viciedo have signed?

 

This would not be a good baseball move. The Sox aren't so poor that they need to unload Ramirez's contract. And it would be very bad for fan enthusiasm.

 

It's really a HORRIBLE idea.

Judging from Hans M.O. I'd say trading Alexei is a possibilty if and only if he can get a MLB ready position player or starting pitcher.

 

I think it's far more likely Hahn is hoping a guy like Viciedo has a good year and pawn him off after a strong season like he did with Santiago and the Angels did with Trumbo. Most likely the Sox will be looking for a LH outfielder who can catch the damn ball.

[Eminor3rd]

Judging from Hans M.O. I'd say trading Alexei is a possibilty if and only if he can get a MLB ready position player or starting pitcher.

 

I think it's far more likely Hahn is hoping a guy like Viciedo has a good year and pawn him off after a strong season like he did with Santiago and the Angels did with Trumbo. Most likely the Sox will be looking for a LH outfielder who can catch the damn ball.

 

If we assume Abreu and Eaton are for real and that Garcia bounces back fully from surgery, I'd have no problem at all moving Viciedo and getting a defense/speed guy to slot in to LF.

[Balta1701]

If we assume Abreu and Eaton are for real and that Garcia bounces back fully from surgery, I'd have no problem at all moving Viciedo and getting a defense/speed guy to slot in to LF.

We better be getting back one helluva player to trade Viciedo right now.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

If we assume Abreu and Eaton are for real and that Garcia bounces back fully from surgery, I'd have no problem at all moving Viciedo and getting a defense/speed guy to slot in to LF.

That's why I wanted Ellsbury in the off season. But now I realize that thinking was a bit premature and the whole Viciedo/De Aza saga had to be resolved.

[Dick Allen]

If we assume Abreu and Eaton are for real and that Garcia bounces back fully from surgery, I'd have no problem at all moving Viciedo and getting a defense/speed guy to slot in to LF.

But wouldn't you have no problem if the Sox traded Viciedo for a new churro making machinge?

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

We better be getting back one helluva player to trade Viciedo right now.

That's the whole point of selling high. And unless Vicedo shows he can continue to take walks , and keep his average up there and hit for more power and manage to not trip over himself too many times on defense, we're not at a "helluva player" in return for him yet. Not even close.

Edited May 12, 2014 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[Melissa1334]

That's the whole point of selling high. And unless Vicedo shows he can continue to take walks , and keep his average up there and hit for more power and manage to not trip over himself too many times on defense, we're not at a "helluva player" in return for him yet. Now even close.

i agree witht this post, im in the sell high on viceido camp. just too many things i dont like about him(which you stated)

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

If we assume Abreu and Eaton are for real and that Garcia bounces back fully from surgery, I'd have no problem at all moving Viciedo and getting a defense/speed guy to slot in to LF.

Or for RF and moving Garcia to left.

[southsider2k5]

Judging from Hans M.O. I'd say trading Alexei is a possibilty if and only if he can get a MLB ready position player or starting pitcher.

 

I think it's far more likely Hahn is hoping a guy like Viciedo has a good year and pawn him off after a strong season like he did with Santiago and the Angels did with Trumbo. Most likely the Sox will be looking for a LH outfielder who can catch the damn ball.

 

They asked for Goldschmidt for Konerko at the 2011 deadline. They also asked for a ridiculous price for De Aza. Rick Hahn isn't trading Alexei Ramirez for anything other than a big price.

 

 

[witesoxfan]

1. We're eight back in the loss column. I'd say we're out of the Central race right now considering Detroit wins the division every year.

I agree with the rest of your post though.

 

The Tigers have played 6 fewer games, so you also have to take into consideration that, even at sub .500, the Sox are only 2 back in the win column too (nless you assume the Tigers are going to win all 6 of those games, which is a damn near impossible assumption). The Sox still have 123 games left to play too, the Tigers 129. Saying anything is settled on May 11th or 12th is absolutely ridiculous.

 

I, too, believe the Tigers are going to win the division, but you don't see me saying "the Sox are out of the Central" on May 12th when the standings don't mean anything until Memorial Day anyways.

 

EDIT: Let's put it this way greg: do you think the Brewers are celebrating a division title any time soon? Do you think the Cardinals or Pirates feel they're out of that race already?

Edited May 12, 2014 by witesoxfan

[southsider2k5]

The Tigers have played 6 fewer games, so you also have to take into consideration that, even at sub .500, the Sox are only 2 back in the win column too (nless you assume the Tigers are going to win all 6 of those games, which is a damn near impossible assumption). The Sox still have 123 games left to play too, the Tigers 129. Saying anything is settled on May 11th or 12th is absolutely ridiculous.

 

I, too, believe the Tigers are going to win the division, but you don't see me saying "the Sox are out of the Central" on May 12th when the standings don't mean anything until Memorial Day anyways.

 

I wouldn't say we have zero chance, but I would put the White Sox not winning the central at about two standard deviations of certainty.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

The Tigers have played 6 fewer games, so you also have to take into consideration that, even at sub .500, the Sox are only 2 back in the win column too (nless you assume the Tigers are going to win all 6 of those games, which is a damn near impossible assumption). The Sox still have 123 games left to play too, the Tigers 129. Saying anything is settled on May 11th or 12th is absolutely ridiculous.

 

I, too, believe the Tigers are going to win the division, but you don't see me saying "the Sox are out of the Central" on May 12th when the standings don't mean anything until Memorial Day anyways.

Most of of know winning the division isn't probable but since it's only May we can still think we're in the wildcards race. The team is pretty resilient so far. Just need to hold it together for a little longer until some issues are resolved. Get through these next 9 road games at .500 and go from there. Sox showing some TWTW . De Aza needs to exorcise some of those demons left over from 2013.

[harfman77]

Who are you going to trade him to and get appropriate value?

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

Who are you going to trade him to and get appropriate value?

You talkin' to me ? You mean De Aza ? I never said trade the guy . He just needs to stop looking like he can't field or run any better than a 50 yr. old. The guy is stumbling around like his legs are shot. If his legs are shot then he has no approximate value unless you want the current value of Ken Griffey, Jr.

[witesoxfan]

I wouldn't say we have zero chance, but I would put the White Sox not winning the central at about two standard deviations of certainty.

 

I said it in my post and I agree with this, but it has nothing to do with their current records and everything to do with the Tigers being a more talented and well-rounded (no pun intended) team.

 

Most of of know winning the division isn't probable but since it's only May we can still think we're in the wildcards race. The team is pretty resilient so far. Just need to hold it together for a little longer until some issues are resolved. Get through these next 9 road games at .500 and go from there. Sox showing some TWTW . De Aza needs to exorcise some of those demons left over from 2013.

 

Frankly, I just want the team to keep playing hard. That's all you can ask for. I think they'll ultimately get a little worn out come August, but the team showing some resiliency has got a lot of people much more optimistic about the team's future. Anywhere between 78-84 wins is a successful season as far as I'm concerned.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

I said it in my post and I agree with this, but it has nothing to do with their current records and everything to do with the Tigers being a more talented and well-rounded (no pun intended) team.

 

 

 

Frankly, I just want the team to keep playing hard. That's all you can ask for. I think they'll ultimately get a little worn out come August, but the team showing some resiliency has got a lot of people much more optimistic about the team's future. Anywhere between 78-84 wins is a successful season as far as I'm concerned.

It's still early enough that I don't have to resign myself to them just playing hard. Making the playoffs would mean a lot more things went better than expected. And we all want that.

[South Side Fireworks Man]

If we assume Abreu and Eaton are for real and that Garcia bounces back fully from surgery, I'd have no problem at all moving Viciedo and getting a defense/speed guy to slot in to LF.

Viciedo is better than Avi Garcia.

[oldsox]

Viciedo is better than Avi Garcia.

Disagree, assuming the injury heals properly. Look at his 2013 record.

[Eminor3rd]

I wouldn't say we have zero chance, but I would put the White Sox not winning the central at about two standard deviations of certainty.

 

For sure. I like using FanGraphs playoff odds for at least approximate context. Gives projected final records based on projected ROS records: http://www.fangraphs.com/coolstandings.aspx

 

Not exact, of course, but gives a frame of reference for tempering expectations.

[harfman77]

You talkin' to me ? You mean De Aza ? I never said trade the guy . He just needs to stop looking like he can't field or run any better than a 50 yr. old. The guy is stumbling around like his legs are shot. If his legs are shot then he has no approximate value unless you want the current value of Ken Griffey, Jr.

 

No I wasn't talking to anyone in particular, was talking about the original topic, Ramirez. I don't see any club out there that would give up an appropriate value for Ramirez during the season. Perhaps the Yankees in the off-season or Dodgers if either Hanley walks or is convinced to move to 3B full time, but with the way that Gordon and Uribe have been playing that is pretty doubtful with Guerrero waiting in the wings. I sure would like to pry Pederson away from them in a deal for Alexei though.

[chitownsportsfan]

Viciedo is better than Avi Garcia.

 

I don't know how you can say that with any certainty. For all his hitting Viciedo is still only on pace for about 2 WAR, he gets major knocks for fielding and baserunning. Tools wise Viciedo might compare to Garcia but when you look at their respective careers Garcia was doing big things at age 22 in MLB before he got hurt. Usually players that can hold their own with the bat at 22 in the bigs turn out to be stars. Not always, but usually.

 

That's why ZIPS had Garcia down for about 12 WAR over the next 4 years -- pre injury of course. He was actually looking a good bet to exceed that before he got hurt.

 

Viciedo needs to hit like 300/360/480 to be a 2 WAR player because of his limitations elsewhere. I don't know if he's every anything more than a useful regular. Don't get me wrong, but Garcia's upside is almost certainly higher.