Advanced Stats

[greg775]

I realize some baseball broadcasts show on base percentage somewhere on the screen when a batter steps to the plate, but broadcast teams do not discuss anything but the age-old batting average, home runs and RBIs during their broadcasts.

 

Why is this? Today the Royals announcers were going through a discussion of KC hitters. Only thing they talked about was batting average. If advanced statistics are the future and were chronicled so heavily in Moneyball, why don't announcers discuss them?

 

For hitters, it's batting average, HR, RBI; for pitchers it's still wins, losses and ERA and pitch count. No discussion of Sabes. No discussion EVER of on base percentage and things like that.

 

It's crazy.

[Jose Abreu]

I realize some baseball broadcasts show on base percentage somewhere on the screen when a batter steps to the plate, but broadcast teams do not discuss anything but the age-old batting average, home runs and RBIs during their broadcasts.

 

Why is this? Today the Royals announcers were going through a discussion of KC hitters. Only thing they talked about was batting average. If advanced statistics are the future and were chronicled so heavily in Moneyball, why don't announcers discuss them?

 

For hitters, it's batting average, HR, RBI; for pitchers it's still wins, losses and ERA and pitch count. No discussion of Sabes. No discussion EVER of on base percentage and things like that.

 

It's crazy.

OBP isn't really that sabermetric-y, but I agree with you. It tends to be the older announcers that are north of 45/50 that don't discuss them. It'll take some time for these stats to be accepted by most.

[chw42]

I realize some baseball broadcasts show on base percentage somewhere on the screen when a batter steps to the plate, but broadcast teams do not discuss anything but the age-old batting average, home runs and RBIs during their broadcasts.

 

Why is this? Today the Royals announcers were going through a discussion of KC hitters. Only thing they talked about was batting average. If advanced statistics are the future and were chronicled so heavily in Moneyball, why don't announcers discuss them?

 

For hitters, it's batting average, HR, RBI; for pitchers it's still wins, losses and ERA and pitch count. No discussion of Sabes. No discussion EVER of on base percentage and things like that.

 

It's crazy.

 

You're watching the wrong broadcasts.

 

Even Stoney and Hawk talked about WAR the other day. Stone used to be very against any kind of sabermetric mentality. It now appears he's at least intrigued enough about it that he'll talk about it in the booth.

 

[Quin]

Booth guys aren't making the FO decisions.

 

And sabermetrics and advanced stats don't exactly make for awesome TV commentating unless someone who knows them can make them relatable.

[Jake]

Yeah, the broadcasters don't want to be discussing the definitions and validity of sabermetrics very often

[BigHurt3515]

I am one that doesn't care about these advanced stats. I feel like OBP, AVG, RBI, AVG w/ RISP, BB, K, R will pretty much tell you what you want to know about a hitter.

 

OBP is the biggest one for me. If you are getting on base a lot you are giving your team a chance to score.

Edited May 5, 2014 by BigHurt3515

[LittleHurt05]

Cubs broadcasters are all over the sabermetric train, heard them talking about an unsustainable line drive percentage the other day.

[Ozzie Ball]

Cubs broadcasters are all over the sabermetric train, heard them talking about an unsustainable line drive percentage the other day.

They just had a nice graphic comparing Abreu and Rizzo that contained wOBA, BABIP and WAR, and the proceeded to talk down the importance of Abreu's RBI's. Yesterday when talking about Flowers they were mentioning his unsustainable BABIP. Those are the only two Cubs broadcasts I've watched this year, but like you say, they seem to be all over the sabermetrics.

[max power]

I am one that doesn't care about these advanced stats. I feel like OBP, AVG, RBI, AVG w/ RISP, BB, K, R will pretty much tell you what you want to know about a hitter.

 

OBP is the biggest one for me. If you are getting on base a lot you are giving your team a chance to score.

Yeah I can pretty much guess a guys value (or war) when all of this is known. Or in the case that I can, I can look it up in seconds.

 

Most likely, I am thinking the perception was that casual fans in general don't want to hear about advanced metrics. That perception is likely shifting and more is to come in the future.

Edited May 7, 2014 by MAX

[johndyce]

That's because we're all usually watching Hawk and Stone.

 

Sox broadcasts could have the stats replaced with "W2W" and "grinder %"

[GoSox05]

I don't mind that they don't talk about it because I think it would be boring to listen to during a game, but Hawk is just against it and yells about it all the time.

[soxsoxsoxsox]

That's because we're all usually watching Hawk and Stone.

 

Sox broadcasts could have the stats replaced with "W2W" and "grinder %"

 

ya it's all about that TWTW

[caulfield12]

The paradigm is radically different. Some of the best baseball CEOs have Ivy League educations, business-school training and experience working for Wall Street firms. They incorporate extensive use of advanced metrics in evaluating players and formulating a long-term roster vision.

 

La Russa has railed against the so-called Moneyball philosophy And he was at it again Saturday when he said this: “There really is no mystery or magic, and I’ll guarantee you there are no metrics. I’m not bringing a computer sheet that says, ‘OK, here’s how we do it, boys. Just read this.’ No, it’s basic competitive winning baseball with the right attitude and the guts to play it the right way.”

 

Game on!

 

As a manager, La Russa endorsed the Cardinals’ trading of a terrific young cost-controlled pitcher, Dan Haren, for a more established and expensive veteran, Mark Mulder, who already had shown signs of shoulder fatigue.

 

In today’s environment – which puts a premium on protecting cost-certain assets — a Haren-Mulder deal is just bad business. And bad baseball.

 

Ironically, the failure of short-sighted trades is one of the reasons the Diamondbacks were eager to make the change that put TLR in command.

 

Speaking to reporters Saturday, Arizona’s managing general ownership partner, Ken Kendrick, was unusually candid in expressing his displeasure in the team’s direction under general manager Kevin Towers and previous team executives.

 

Kendrick cited the way the Diamondbacks have squandered successful drafts by inexplicably trading away elite prospects such as future American League Cy Young award winner Max Scherzer.

 

“We do a good job of drafting young players, and we’ve had pretty damn good scouting directors,” Kendrick said. “What we haven’t done a good job with is keeping those guys wearing a Diamondbacks uniform. Why did that happen? Obviously, we’ve had general managers that have made a lot of trades, and the guys we’ve traded have ended up doing better than the guys we got in exchange. We didn’t keep them on our team. Shame on us.”

 

That’s why I believe installing La Russa as the top baseball boss at the head of a franchise is such an interesting experiment.

 

The Diamondbacks’ owners are fed up with the organization’s flawed-thinking habit of moving young talent in misguided deals designed for instant results, instant gratification.

 

So they’ve recruited La Russa, who was perhaps the ultimate example of a win-now, win-today manager.

 

Has La Russa evolved? Can he evolve? Yes, I believe that he can — and he will. He’s never failed at anything. But as Tony knows, he’ll have to prove it.

 

La Russa was trained during 33 years of managing hardball. Now he’s in the big chair, competing against the new breed of baseball CEOs – the sharpies from Cornell, Princeton and Harvard, the former analysts from the Wall Street investment firms.

 

The tough and smart old-school manager is coming back to take on the business-school boys. It’s “attitude and guts” vs. advanced metrics.

 

This will be great fun.

 

Bernie Miklasz has been covering St. Louis sports since 1989.

 

 

http://www.stltoday.com/sports/columns/ber...ad7af6b7a0.html

[caulfield12]

http://www.azcentral.com/story/sports/mlb/...-russa/9237337/

 

"You can name a lot of really top major leaguers that were developed by the Diamondbacks," Kendrick said. "We have to get our act together in making sure which ones to keep. That's one of the historically bad parts of our record. This is not Kevin Towers alone. It's the general managers as a group."

 

So the Diamondbacks are hitting reset … again. La Russa has "a complete free hand" to refit the franchise any way he chooses. Towers is surely toast, while manager Kirk Gibson just embarked on yet another evaluation period, to be judged by the greatest manager of his generation.

 

This much is perfectly clear:

 

For the last few years, the Diamondbacks wanted to be like the Cardinals, the football team that has the marketplace in a headlock. Now, they want to be like the Cardinals, the baseball franchise that has a never-ending supply of young talent.

 

"There really is no mystery or magic, and I'll guarantee you there are no metrics," La Russa said. "I'm not bringing a computer sheet that says, 'OK, here's how we do it, boys. Just read this.'

 

"No, it's basic competitive winning baseball with the right attitude and the guts to play it the right way."

 

This is more than just an image boost, and to his credit, Kendrick drilled deep to discover what's ailing a franchise stuck in the mud of mediocrity. He recently came across a study that had him "standing on a bridge ready to jump."

 

The project examined draft picks for every organization over a 10-year period. And from 2002-2012, the team whose draft picks posted the best WAR statistic (wins above replacement) was … the Diamondbacks.

 

Problem is, a lot of those draft picks are now starring on other teams, such as Detroit Tigers ace Max Scherzer.

 

"This tells me that we do a good job of drafting young players, and we've had pretty damn good scouting directors," Kendrick said. "What we haven't done a good job with is keeping those guys wearing a Diamondbacks uniform.

 

"Why did that happen? Obviously, we've had general managers that have made a lot of trades, and the guys we've traded have ended up doing better than the guys we got in exchange. We didn't keep them on our team. Shame on us."

 

The hiring of La Russa is intended to plug that organization gap, and could be the perfect marriage of problem and solver.

 

La Russa is edgy. His teams love a good fight. And clearly, he needs another challenge. In Arizona, he is reunited with two former St. Louis coaches (Dave Duncan and Dave McKay, and the goal is to replicate their former organization, one that built a juggernaut on homegrown talent.

 

"Look at the St. Louis Cardinals," La Russa said. "Those young guys come in there, put that uniform on and expect to get to a certain level. By the time they come to the big leagues, you're not retraining them. You're just reminding."

 

At the very least, the appointment of La Russa buys the Diamondbacks some credibility and time, just as the hiring of Towers once did in the wake of the Josh Byrnes fiasco. It also means someone else gets to fire Towers and, if necessary, Gibson.

 

But time isn't on Kendrick's side, and that's why his optimism was muted on Saturday. He said the current mess is not an overnight fix, and an institutional rebuild was something he didn't desire at 70 years of age.

 

It doesn't guarantee this move will work, either. La Russa is one of the best field managers in history, but can he run baseball operations in 2014, when the sport is in the midst of a data revolution resulting in seismic shifts in strategy?

 

Kendrick responded with a better trend. He said La Russa hasn't failed at anything in his life, and that really smart guys generally find the answers.

 

"He was the man behind the movement to instant replay, so I've seen him work through complicated issues. I've seen him solve problems," Kendrick said. "And when you watched him in the dugout, you were always in fear, figuring he was going to do something to outsmart you."

 

That's La Russa's reputation, and why this move is a public-relations windfall.

 

Few will dare to question this hire, conveniently announced after another lopsided loss to the Dodgers. On the way out of Chase Field on Saturday, I actually witnessed a young man racing through the concourse screaming, 'We got La Russa!"

 

In the midst of another abysmal season, that counts as progress.

 

[oldsox]

Who cares? Today's announcers talk waaay too much. Most are a bunch of babbling brooks who like to hear themselves talk. Geez, they talk about anything. Reminds me of an old song that came out in the '50's, I believe: "You Talk Too Much". It's like if there is ever three seconds of silence, they think they are not doing their job. They act like the audience is stupid and can't get through the game without them. And you guys want more conversation?? Maybe a few more promos to listen to?

 

My solution is to put the TV on mute and turn the stereo on. If something happens and I want the audio, I have a remote in both hands.

[Y2Jimmy0]

The thing that is funny about Harrelson is that he actually likes #'s and doesn't know it. He always talks about watching Boston, Oakland, and TB and how they have "TWTW" when actually those are 3 of the more well known sabr teams. The old man is hilarious.

[greg775]

Did you guys know the king of advanced stats, Bill James, lives in Lawrence? Saw him at a funeral of an old sports writer recently. Bill is a loyal guy, he respects the local sports rag and the local writers and is really an interesting story. He probably would have made a better movie than Billy Beane.

 

Edited May 19, 2014 by greg775

[cabiness42]

Did you guys know the king of advanced stats, Bill James, lives in Lawrence? Saw him at a funeral of an old sports writer recently. Bill is a loyal guy, he respects the local sports rag and the local writers and is really an interesting story. He probably would have made a better movie than Billy Beane.

 

As a GM, Bill James has won the same number of pennants as Billy Beane.

[greg775]

As a GM, Bill James has won the same number of pennants as Billy Beane.

 

Bill James is a cult icon, though. And he's a bigger guy, not a hunk to the women like Redford. But James is very interesting guy. For instance he used to preach (don't know if he still does) that you don't need to 'protect' sluggers in the lineup. He said it matter not if the guy hitting behind you sucks. That it still doesn't affect the pitches you get and how you perform. Not sure if he's changed his position on that.

[Balta1701]

Bill James is a cult icon, though. And he's a bigger guy, not a hunk to the women like Redford. But James is very interesting guy. For instance he used to preach (don't know if he still does) that you don't need to 'protect' sluggers in the lineup. He said it matter not if the guy hitting behind you sucks. That it still doesn't affect the pitches you get and how you perform. Not sure if he's changed his position on that.

We actually had that discussion here this offseason and it seems like that is still the current thinking.

[greg775]

We actually had that discussion here this offseason and it seems like that is still the current thinking.

 

Awesome. Bill hasn't changed his position.

[caulfield12]

Yes, you can get Stephen King to play Bill James and the total box office would be ... well let's just say it's going to be less than $5 million.

 

It would be interesting to see it attempted, if they could find the perfect screenwriter for the project, like Aaron Sorkin.