Y2Jimmy0 Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 This is pretty good. Some will hate it because they hate Bernstein. Some will hate it because they hate Dunn. As a Dunn fan, here it is. http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2014/05/07/ber...bscuring-truth/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 Abreu's game is far from perfect. The power is great, but he's gotta get on base more. If he isn't getting on at a .350+ clip, it's hard to consider him an elite hitter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ May 7, 2014 -> 10:54 AM) This is pretty good. Some will hate it because they hate Bernstein. Some will hate it because they hate Dunn. As a Dunn fan, here it is. http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2014/05/07/ber...bscuring-truth/ This article is one of the primary problems I have with "advanced" stats. Both of these players are being paid to produce runs. You can determine the probable value of this all you want but Abreu has scored 22 and driven in 35 for 57 runs minus the HR as you don't want to count the run twice for a total of 45. Rizzo has 19 scored and 16 driven in for 35 minus the 6 HR for a total of 29. There is always the comment of RBI being useless because it depends on the teammates getting on base for the opportunity. In that case the percentage of runs driven in by opportunity works. Don't flame me because I know many of you like the +RC stat and all but when it comes down to it, I think it is all about producing runs from these guys and I really don't care what his weighted on base percentage is. It's great to debate and discuss but it's not as relevant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 That's a very interesting comparison and it shows that despite all the hoopla, Abreu still has a lot of stuff to work on. Although when you compare their salaries, I don't think you can completely ignore that the Cubs gave up a potential #1 pitcher for Rizzo, while Abreu only cost money, nothing else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buehrle>Wood Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 (edited) Shockingly, Bernstein can't see the forest for the trees. Edited May 7, 2014 by Buehrle>Wood Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cabiness42 Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 Jose Abreu: 1.1 WAR, 143 wRC+. .254 BA, .317 OPB, .608 SLG, .386 wOBA, 12 HRs. Anthony Rizzo: 1.1 WAR, 150 wRC+. .292 BA, .420 OPB, .500 SLG, .397 wOBA, 6 HRs. This appeared in exact duplicate in last night's WGN-Cubs broadcast and in today's Bernstein article. I don't live in Chicago, and even when I did I never listened to the guy, but does he have original ideas or does he just steal them all from others? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 He was trying to troll this yesterday, saying that Rizzo is the better player currently, and that any GM would have a hard time picking Abreu over Rizzo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 Well there are two schools of thought to this in my mind: -Abreu is new and is adjusting to MLB pitching and he's still putting up these numbers. How good could he really be? -Pitchers haven't adjusted to him yet, so perhaps there will be an adjustment and he won't keep this up, while Rizzo has adjusted already. Personally, I'd take either one and I'd be happy. It's not like one is filet mignon and the other chopped liver. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 QUOTE (HickoryHuskers @ May 7, 2014 -> 11:12 AM) This appeared in exact duplicate in last night's WGN-Cubs broadcast and in today's Bernstein article. I don't live in Chicago, and even when I did I never listened to the guy, but does he have original ideas or does he just steal them all from others? Ha, that is awesome. He is a plagiarist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoSox05 Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 Bernstein was talking about this during his show yesterday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Jimmy0 Posted May 7, 2014 Author Share Posted May 7, 2014 QUOTE (HickoryHuskers @ May 7, 2014 -> 11:12 AM) This appeared in exact duplicate in last night's WGN-Cubs broadcast and in today's Bernstein article. I don't live in Chicago, and even when I did I never listened to the guy, but does he have original ideas or does he just steal them all from others? I think Bernstein puts together some stat line thing for the Cubs broadcast occasionally. He has Kasper on every week so it may be something like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 Bernstein loves to think he is very smart with stats and routinely pulls incredibly small sample sizes with advanced stats because he is very smart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Jimmy0 Posted May 7, 2014 Author Share Posted May 7, 2014 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ May 7, 2014 -> 11:31 AM) Ha, that is awesome. He is a plagiarist. It also could be possible that after talking about it yesterday and seeing the stats on television last night that he decided to write his column about it. Not really that big of a deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ May 7, 2014 -> 11:34 AM) I think Bernstein puts together some stat line thing for the Cubs broadcast occasionally. He has Kasper on every week so it may be something like that. And Kasper was tweeting with Bernstein about the comparison before yesterday's game, so I'm sure that led to it being shown on the broadcast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chetkincaid Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 Interesting article. It's a shame that Bernstein gets off on being such a douche. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILMOU Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 Doofus Bernstein just trying to stir the pot, which is his job. His complete ignorance of baseball has been obvious in previous articles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Chappas Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 The problem I am having with Dan Bernstein is that I picture him watching a game, seeing the result and then looking at the advanced stats to see if he should be happy with the result. I like sports I really do but at the end of the day the s*** that seems to now go back and forth now a days takes away from the enjoyment. I want to like Avasail Garcia but I can't because he hits too many ground balls and not enough fly balls. Sports are entertainment, tanking with the hope that in five years everything will be roses and p****cats mystifies me. That would be like taking a television away from someone that really likes television by telling them in four years, they may get the mother of all televisions. I get that it is a business and teams do things with the bigger picture in mind but I want my three hours of daily entertainment. That is all I seek from sports. At the end of the day my life is no better the following morning after a teams win or lose. This goes for the fall of 2005 as well. For some reason advanced statistics are doing the same thing for me. I can't enjoy Tyler Flowers, why...his BABIP tells me he will suck from now until mid-July. The stats tell me so. Rizzo and Abreu are having good starts. Rizzo has been a round for a few yeas Abreu for a month. THAT IS THE f***ING STORY NOT RUNS CREATED V WOBA or whatever the f*** he is talking about.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 QUOTE (Stan Bahnsen @ May 7, 2014 -> 11:39 AM) Doofus Bernstein just trying to stir the pot, which is his job. His complete ignorance of baseball has been obvious in previous articles. He actually mentioned White Sox and salary cap in an article last year when he was saying they would be doing things the new way in baseball. Having teams give up bad contracts, and giving the Sox prospects to take on the contracts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 QUOTE (Harry Chappas @ May 7, 2014 -> 11:42 AM) The problem I am having with Dan Bernstein is that I picture him watching a game, seeing the result and then looking at the advanced stats to see if he should be happy with the result. I like sports I really do but at the end of the day the s*** that seems to now go back and forth now a days takes away from the enjoyment. I want to like Avasail Garcia but I can't because he hits too many ground balls and not enough fly balls. Sports are entertainment, tanking with the hope that in five years everything will be roses and p****cats mystifies me. That would be like taking a television away from someone that really likes television by telling them in four years, they may get the mother of all televisions. I get that it is a business and teams do things with the bigger picture in mind but I want my three hours of daily entertainment. That is all I seek from sports. At the end of the day my life is no better the following morning after a teams win or lose. This goes for the fall of 2005 as well. For some reason advanced statistics are doing the same thing for me. I can't enjoy Tyler Flowers, why...his BABIP tells me he will suck from now until mid-July. The stats tell me so. Rizzo and Abreu are having good starts. Rizzo has been a round for a few yeas Abreu for a month. THAT IS THE f***ING STORY NOT RUNS CREATED V WOBA or whatever the f*** he is talking about.. well, Feeky tells you so too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Chappas Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ May 7, 2014 -> 11:45 AM) well, Feeky tells you so too that is where I got the stat from. Ruined all my fun watching Tyler Flowers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buehrle>Wood Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 (edited) The point of those articles he quotes are that the Cubs/Theo should not be excused for taking so long to be interesting when the Sox managed to do it in 1 offseason. José Abreu in his first month is absolutely symbol behind that. Anthony Rizzo in his 3rd year in town,no matter how good he is, is not. Is it too early for those types of articles? Yes, probably. But I'm not sure why Bernstein brings them up here. They aren't very relevant. Edited May 7, 2014 by Buehrle>Wood Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 I don't think Bernstein watches many games and uses his knowledge of SABRmetrics to make up for it. It makes for dumb opinions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 QUOTE (Marty34 @ May 7, 2014 -> 12:05 PM) I don't think Bernstein watches many games and uses his knowledge of SABRmetrics to make up for it. It makes for dumb opinions. I think this is very accurate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ May 7, 2014 -> 12:08 PM) I think this is very accurate. To be completely fair, I wouldn't argue it either. Mix that with a dose of the typical Score formula of saying stuff to upset people and drive ratings, and I think you have a winner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ May 7, 2014 -> 12:10 PM) To be completely fair, I wouldn't argue it either. Mix that with a dose of the typical Score formula of saying stuff to upset people and drive ratings, and I think you have a winner. WHen he brought it up yesterday, immediately he started mentioning how Sox fans were upset and they were dumb to be upset about it, because advanced metrics say so. And then finished his argument by saying pretty much the same thing as his last paragraph in his column, its probably too early to make these presumptions Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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